The Doves: Another nominated artist’s perspective

A southern gospel artist up for a down-roster Dove nomination sent along this note:

I have enjoyed the back and forth banter on the Dove situation. We were nominated for XXXX and did not even know until someone called and told us. We put no effort into the nomination but found out our label did send each of their artists’ new projects to the GMA. I assume someone liked the project because we have no advertising budget nor do we play politics within the industry. I say all of that to tell you I would really like to know how they [Young Harmony] do it. I agreed with everything in your article. … I do appreciate the forum and SG needs honesty, even though I know eventually we will most likely end up on the wrong side one day. Hopefully we will take the constructive criticism and use it to improve.

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Comments

  1. jk wrote:

    maybe it’s GOD doing it and not young harmony. or maybe the answer is in post #104 of the young harmony and the dove blog.

  2. bgc wrote:

    I know this was brought up before but It merits repeating. Having money is not a sin and using it for the right reason is admirable. I only wonder how much more could be done to further the name of Christ by using 2-4 grand a month to help out a church or evangelist rather than promoting your name to get a booking in a church on a love offering. This situation has the parable of the talents written all over it.

  3. GC wrote:

    My only point has been that the Dove awards are not a spiritual contest but a Christian music achievement award. And anytime someone questions a group or soloist music, people turn it into a personal attack on the artist.It is only an opinion of the groups artistic accomplisments to the christian music arena and not a personal or spiritual attack.
    If you believe that GOD has an intrest in who wins a Dove award, I have a basketball team on the bubble for the NCAA tournament that I need to put on a prayer list.

  4. bgc wrote:

    Amen Brother!

  5. Felicia wrote:

    How you go about it matters.

  6. Nina McPeake wrote:

    I didn’t know that God was a voting member of the GMA

  7. anon wrote:

    love your website—sometimes the truth hurts, but very informative sight—keep up the good work—-anon

  8. Kyle wrote:

    You know, the more I think about it, the less I’d be interested in a Dove award if it works the way it seems.

    If all you need is a ton of money and a full-blown promotion and media blitz, who cares about merit??

  9. Practical Fellow wrote:

    jk wrote (in post #1): “maybe it’s GOD doing it and not young harmony. or maybe the answer is in post #104 of the young harmony and the dove blog.”

    Come on, JK. This kind of argument borders on the ridiculous. I agree with CG (post #3) - this is an award contest; not a spiritual event where lives weigh in the balance. I know God moves in mysterious ways, but parting the red sea of the GMA to help YH cross over to an award speech? I’m willing to let the jury sit out a little longer before I give God the credit on the YH nomination.

    And I agree that this isn’t an attack on the group’s kindness or ministry. It’s about an award show that is very competitive in the industry. People and companies campaign hard for these awards so the chances of an unheard group with little radio play, little retail presence and little name recognition getting three award nominations… well, the chances of it supernaturally happening aren’t big.

    We can all smell the smoke on this one or there wouldn’t be so much debate. Someone will find the fire eventually - maybe when YH wins a Dove.

  10. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    GC
    If God is interested, can you tell me what team you are praying for so I will pray that my team won’t play your team because you might pray that my team would lose.

  11. DM wrote:

    Southern gospel has always had “used car salesmen”, and Jonathan Bond is one. Most of the ones from the psat have fell by the wayside.

  12. thom wrote:

    i think everyone should stop stoning YH and move on.

  13. cg wrote:

    when you spend money on billboards, ads and anything else that brings you to the forefront, you should be ready for attention good or bad.If you do not want that attention, if there is some wrong doing in your methods of promotion,if your product is not as good as you advertised,if you have thin skin, my advice would be not to plaster your image on every interstate in Tenn.

    But if you believe that God has put you on this mission, there is no post on this site or anywhere else that would deter you from your goal…

    Remember the Blues Brothers? They were on a mission from God!

  14. bh wrote:

    The Dove awards are designed to honor those of high musical accomplishment in the course of a year. It has nothing to do with being saved, selling thousands of CD’s, nor whether their heart is in the right place or not. It is about talent, and how a group or artists package that talent into a musical product. Nothing more, nothing less. It is a legit question to ask if an artist is deserving of an award. You may not be rewarded with a meaningful answer, but to question the thought process in a nomination, or the actual award itself, is totally merited.

  15. John wrote:

    I agree with Thom…enough already! Everything that can be said about this episode has been said, and said…and said again.

    Time to move on…nothing more to see here.

  16. gc wrote:

    John? How did they get the Dove nominations? For Example: Gaither Vocal Band– Great Sound, Production and large piece of Sg retail..

    BF& A–Progressive sound, major SG concert artist, SG Lifer..

    Mike Bowling–Incredible singer-exposure thru Crabb Family- Progressive and awesome pr

    Young Harmony–? fill in the blanks

  17. Pastor JMT wrote:

    bgc, you couldn’t imagine all that jonathan and ginger do to help other churches and groups. call the gospel greats, call singing news, call their promoter rick (somebody). they have helped my church, they have helped people in my church and i know of many others. that is why they are so blessed, they do give.
    practical fellow, have you thought that god could put a group there for when major doors are opened that they will let him use them? with gospel music, you would think that maybe there would be people just a little more spiratual. god cares about everything and everyone

  18. gc wrote:

    I understand God Blessing people and have been on the giving and recieving side on a daily basis….

    again, I am glad to hear they give….To whom much is given, much is required….

    What is their home Church and denomination? Just curious…

  19. CG wrote:

    gc wrote:

    “What is their home Church and denomination? Just curious… ”

    That’s a VERY fair question. Has anyone persued this?

  20. gc wrote:

    Just caught this.Singing News,Gospel Greats and Rick Hendrix?..How would they be helping them besides paying them for services offered?

  21. bgc wrote:

    Pastor JMT
    I’m not questioning where the heart is only the method. To the eyes of the unsaved world they associate the church to $$$ and when they see this behavior or when they pay $10 to get into a concert and at the end the promoter says when didn’t make enough to pay the bills so we have to take up a love offering, well it affirms their belief. God equips the called not calls the equipped. GC you raise some very good questions!

  22. Lucas Case wrote:

    I don’t honestly think it matters how they got them. Do any of you know Johnathan and Ginger?? On a personal level?? If you did, you would not be posting such terrible things about them. I appreciate everyones opinion about the situation(if there even is one), but I do know this: Johnathan and Ginger put everything they have into this industry and sing for the only reason there even is an industry, GOD, if you have a problem with them, you must have a problem with GOD. They are as close to GOD as you can get. I’m not being mean, I’m just telling my opinion, like you do. God Bless you all!!! P.S–I love you YOUNG HARMONY!!!

  23. Sue Smith wrote:

    Lucas
    What connection do you have with YH? You sure are making BOLD statments. Just because someone on the blog has issues with YH getting nominations doesn’t mean there are problems with God. I don’t think you and anyone else can judge my relationship with God because I don’t YH should have a Dove Nomination. In my opnion YH is a unknow group. I only know what they look like because their faces are plastered all over the Interstate in TN. Have they had any songs in the top 10? I have been listening to SG music for over 20 years. I went on YH website I didn’t see where they are singing in Mega churches.

  24. bh wrote:

    Lucas, I don’t think anyone is questioning their sincerety, or questioning whether they are good people or not. The question was “are they deserving of a Dove award”. The Doves are about musical accomplishments, much like the Grammy’s on a far smaller scale. I don’t know them, and have only heard them on the radio, so I cannot comment about them on a personal level, and for that matter should not anyway. As to the Dove awards, I think it is surprising to many people that they are nominated simply because so little is known about them. Now, that said, the Doves are about talent, not about sales. So, if they are deserving from a talent point of view, they might get the award. If they are judged less talented than some other artist competing for the same award they will not win the award. Thats as fair as I know anything to be.

  25. jm wrote:

    Lucas Case,
    You’re ignorance is the reason why people involved in Southern Gospel are looked down upon by people outside of this genre. That post is probably one of the most unintelligent comments I’ve ever read. I dont think we can fathom everything that is God, so to try and put them “as close to God as anyone can get” is just inane. Not a single person on this blog can measure up to what God is.

  26. Practical Fellow wrote:

    Pastor JMT wrote: “Practical fellow, have you thought that god could put a group there for when major doors are opened that they will let him use them? with gospel music, you would think that maybe there would be people just a little more spiratual. god cares about everything and everyone”

    Pastor JMT - I don’t even know how to respond to your argument. Sure, God can sway the voting miraculously in the GMA so that Young Harmony, a group largely unknown by the industry with few sales and sparse activity on the charts, can receive three Dove nominations. However, it irritates and frustrates me that people on these threads use God to debate a point that is otherwise unlikely and nearly impossible. I’d like to commend your faith, but I think your naïveté is probably the greater force at work here.

    Maybe those of you who are friends of Young Harmony are too clouded in your affection for the group to see that nothing but calculated voting strategies made this happen. It’s not wrong and it doesn’t mean Young Harmony and Co. are bad people. But please. Enough already.

    Anyone from the industry on this thread that can argue the “God did it” perspective?

  27. VD wrote:

    practical fellow: by your last comment i’m not sure if you’re even saved

  28. CRC wrote:

    Lucas you need to look at yourself before casting stones at others. God is the only one that knows a person’s heart. You don’t have any clue what type of relationship someone has with God. I personally don’t know YH. I have never heard their music. I’m in agreement with some of the people on this thread stating that it is very strange for YH to be nominated for three dove awards and has never had songs in the top 10. YH ministry is not being questioned but the process of how they got nominated for Dove Award.

  29. Jim2 wrote:

    jm,
    I’m pretty sure that Lucas was talking about Jonathan and Ginger’s relationship with God, their personal daily walk and not claiming that they were the next best thing to God. Let’s give one another the benefit of the doubt rather than attacking the individuals here. This issue has been beat to death on both sides - with misunderstandings, real, or imagined or intentional - enough to go around the SG world several times. Just for grins, try to get a copy of New Harmony’s “Testimony” CD - and try to see where they are coming from and what results have been seen from their ministry.
    That being said - GMA Awards are not about ministry value (more’s the pity) but about musical excellence. Sadly, they are also about politics and working the admittedly flawed system. Look at the nominations of Art Greenhaw’s “Light Crust Doughboys” or tribute to James Blackwood to see where those things can be exploited.
    GC, #18 and CG #19 - I can’t say about this side (SG) of the industry, but other genres there are some who don’t attend or even have a “home church” and thus no pastoral accountability - I would imagine with SG’s even more intense touring schedules and even more Sunday Morning “dates” that quite a few groups would be hard pressed to answer that question. 200 dates a year - if you are a weekend warrior, that’s Friday, Saturday and Sunday nights, plus a lot of Sunday Mornings or Thursdays thrown in - any insight out there?

  30. Practical Fellow wrote:

    VD wrote: ” practical fellow: by your last comment i’m not sure if you’re even saved”

    VD - Ouch. You can question my salvation off just a couple of paragraphs in a Southern Gospel blog (my post was #25)? Wow. By your own last comment I’m not sure if you’ve ever engaged in a debate that didn’t involve a personal attack on your opponent.

    By the way: I’m a licensed minister with the Assemblies of God and on staff at a local church. And I’m saved too.

  31. gc wrote:

    My experience has been that you need a home Church and Pastor for spiritual support.If that means going on wednesday or be a part of a small group, that will help keep a traveling christian with a consistent spiritual home base. I also believe that supporting your home church is a solid testimony. I have been traveling 20 years and for 15 years I have had that home support and it has been a blessing..
    Practical Fellow, You don’t love YH AND your AG? You don’t have a prayer of getting to heaven! Blessings

  32. dd wrote:

    i feel like we’re on the interstate rubbernecking the same car wreck and running over the victims just to make sure they die. It’s Sunday morning now, what do we say we all go to church, we all get saved and come back and see what happens……LOL. (ding) next. Let it go guys!

  33. gc wrote:

    ok..went to church..Does anyone have an answer to the Home Church or Denomination question on YH? Fair question?

  34. CRC wrote:

    i found out their church information. click here and check out the bio page

  35. DM wrote:

    J.D. always said that GMA and the Dove awards let in every dog that had ever gnawed a bone. J.D. always made people mad, but he was right…

  36. VD wrote:

    DM: BARK, BARK. Looks like Averyfineline does too! Grow up! LOSER!

  37. Rod wrote:

    I believe some of my post on YH weren’t posted…Not sure why…Most of you need to go back to some of the original posts and read them all…Most of these questions have already been answered…Quite extensively…To answer a few however.

    First of all most of you who ARE singers/musicians would do the same thing if you had the money and resources. If you say you wouldn’t you are lying through your keyboard. Secondly as an artist I do what I can to get my name out (ex. advertising, Cd’s, etc.) If I had the resources I would plaster my face on every publication and bill board I could get. Remember, “out of sight out of mind”.

    Secondly most of you guys are just as biased about your favorite groups as some of the posters are to YH yet you attack them for standing up for them. Do I think they deserve an award for their talent, probably not? But it serves you all who are SG fans to be glad that they were even nominated in that category. I’m sure if Sue had written the song that was being nominated she’d have no problem. Now I am not attacking anyone including Sue but let’s all be honest here. The fact is they were SMART. They did a lot of right things to make this happen (Management, advertising and the like). Lastly you CANNOT manipulate the GMA voting like in the past. To do that you would have to pay off many of the major voting labels and their voters. I believe this was addressed in a previous blog but it was correct. Many of you are writing out of ignorance because you are just jumping into the fray…Many of you are still beating the same ole dead horse. Guys stay with the issue at hand and quit attacking each other personally. Especially quit attacking someone’s SALVATION for not agreeing with you. This reminds me of church for some reason. Yes I am saved

    PS…Remember although its ministry…It has to BE GOOD BUSINESS…They obviously know how to run a business and it is what it is A DOVE NOMINATION. Good for them

  38. bgc wrote:

    Rod
    I am VERY close to two first class groups who would not and do not use these tactics and guess what, they were both nominated for a DOVE this year.
    The fact of the matter is this: SG is such a small part of the Christian music industry that money can buy a nomination!

  39. Rod wrote:

    bgc wrote:

    The fact of the matter is this: SG is such a small part of the Christian music industry that money can buy a nomination!

    NO…Again it cannot buy a DOVE nomination. Maybe a Singing News fan award but not a DOVE. I agree you can lobby to have anyone vote for you but the voters still vote. And no you can’t buy block votes. You people are basing your comments on ignorance and supposition when you have NO CLUE what you’re talking about.

    Also those two first class groups you “are very close” would do what it takes to promote themselves and probably have or at least their manager or record label has.

    Again Remember it’s not wrong to be SELF PROMOTING. It’s good business as long as there is balance between that and ministry. You guys have to remeber and distinguish this difference. Some groups actually work to promote themselves instead of relying on a booking agent or record label to do it for them. Everything I have heard they have themsleves, a manager and a record label working together. I could get a Dove nom myself with that kind of support.

  40. CRC wrote:

    Rod- Exactly what makes you an expert about the DOVE awards.

  41. Rod wrote:

    Absolutely nothing! Just researched it and asked questions before I spout off…Unlike many on this blog.

  42. Rod wrote:

    Excuse my horrible spelling on the earlier posts…I’ll do better next time

  43. gc wrote:

    Rod,
    You are dead wrong on one issue..I happen to be in a ministry that can afford billboards and I have chosen other ways to spend ministry money. I personally can’t see where having billboards would be a benefit to a group.Would it increase internet sales? bookings? radio play? It seems to be more self gratifying than anything else.
    That is a groups choice to do that but they better be ready for the attention that is coming both positive and negative.
    Can you use tactics to sway the Dove awards? Of course you can or they would not be there. Every person that has defended them and complimented them has stated, are they the most talented? No ,but they are good people.That is not what merits a Dove award. Outstanding music,songwriting,production and overall MUSIC quality is what most people believe a Dove award represents. You can call everyone on this board an idiot,atheist and every other insult that crosses your mind but the creativity and music ability has to be there. If it was, this would not be a topic on this board!

  44. Rod wrote:

    GC: Once again IGNORANCE is bliss. I have not called one person an atheist. I do believe I called someone an idiot for their very tasteless attacks on someone’s salvation. I have not insulted anyone personally. I also have said many times on this forum that GOOD QUALITY MUSIC is going to change this industry. Do I think they “DESERVE” a dove? NOPE…They obviously have done something well enough to get nominated however. I would bet you my year salary (Which isn’t bad) that those bulletin boards peaked a ton of peoples interest enough to get on their web site. I did when I saw them two years ago just out of curiosity. How can you even know (which you don’t) how many people went to their site by seeing that billboard? Next tell me Mr. GC what tactics they can use. If you know what you’re talking about…PROVE ME WRONG. I will be man enough to post an “I was wrong post” on this site. I really could care less about any of this (I don’t even know YH) but it burns me to no end how many posters get on these sites halfway through a blog or topic and post blather without even reading previous posts or better yet know what they are talking about. So as my friend JR says: “PUT ON YOUR BIG BOY PANTS”.

  45. Rod wrote:

    I do agree that music ability and creativityhas to be in place but the discussion once again turned to dark and conspiritorial theories as to how they were nominated. How about this…Maybe people actually voted for them because of all the lobbying (Signs, free Cd’s, Management). WHATEVER WORKS…Like it or not they were nominated and we and a thousand more groups weren’t. I just listened to their music and believe me there have been more mainstream, popular groups that have been nominated over the years that are worse than these guys.

  46. gc wrote:

    Rod,
    It is hard to prove someone wrong who is always right but I will give you a few thoughts.
    Billboards- Self gratifying way to be seen and exposed.If billboards were feasible, Ernie would have 100 of them and Bill Gaither would buy a Billboard company.
    Web Site-I could start many a stir and get thousands of people to visit my web site.if the goods are not there it is of no good to have visitors.if Wal-Mart only had browsers, they would be out of business.It is evident by the lack of retail sales YH has had no translation from web site visitors to sales.Looking at their schedule it has not garnered them first rate dates. the web site might be busy but without it turning into support, it is useless…
    The only way to be heard or seen is to create great,original, got to hear music that will bless masses of people. mercy me did this as an independent artist with “I Can Only Imagine”. They took off from there. The artist that have accomplished this in past years have been few but I hope each and every artist is striving and pushing for that goal. There are some SG artist that could pull this off. YH is not one of them. To push them forward to the masses of people thru the Dove awards only strengthens the image that most people have of SG.

    My whole point has been that they were not musically established to be in that group. You agreed with me! Let me know when you can send the money. I have been in gospel music for 20 years so I do not accept checks….Your friend ,The blissful ignorant one…..

  47. Rod wrote:

    Ok…Here we go oh blissful one :) My whole point is that they did something that very few SG groups who have been nominated haven’t done but would do had they thought of it. By the way I have seen several billboards with B&G Gaither on them. Country artist use them as well as some CC artists. This is not a new thing it’s just not very conventional and effective.

    I have never once said in any of these posts that I think they deserve it on the merits of their singing or production but I DO think most people on this blog should at least be happy they had the tenacity and work ethic to make it happen. NO the billboards may not generate sales, bookings etc., but it has obviously been seen by everyone on this board and has generated enough interest that has people talking…Some good and some bad. Remember there is no such thing as bad publicity (Except moral failures). Here’s another point I think you’ll agree with. Most new artists good or bad have no chance getting airplay unless they are on a major label or “In the right place and right time” scenario. I have seen for year’s mediocrity getting played on SG radio and some awesome groups (Vocals, production etc.) not even get a look. So WHY NOT try something different and unconventional. They did and it worked and now many artists and fans are ticked because they or their favorite artist (Who yes may be more deserving) didn’t get the nod. By the way Bill Gaither doesn’t need a billboard and Ernie is flying on Bills coat tail so that’s a not so good example. Anyway we’re again beating the same dead horse. Thanks for the titillating discussion.

    PS Not always right just never mistaken. Am I a Baptist or what?

  48. gc wrote:

    I agree with you on most things.There is one major difference in our opinions that I can see. You believe that YH got the Dove nominations because of creative advertising thru billboards and print/internet media.I agree that they have work ethic but I think the Dove nomination was manufactured some other way.
    There is one thing that YH has in their favor that allows them to get played and heard in SG ..$$$.. You spend it and they will come. You can’t buy your way directly but most sg enterprises need money and it can influence many things. Top page banners,full page ads,agressive radio promotion,billboards and inclusion on certain concert dates are all a by-product of spending the cash.
    Again I don’t blame them because that is what they have to do. If YH did not have the $$$, you would have never in a zillion years been exposed to them anymore than other local or regional groups in the business.

    I have no vendetta against YH and don’t know them..I am strictly basing my opinions on what I have seen and the few facts that I know about them..The bottom line: It’s their money,their group and their life…

  49. Lucas Case wrote:

    I don’t have time to write another paragraph, so…..I wish yall the best!! God Bless!!!

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