I believe that SG, AS WE KNOW IT, will be a totally different market. I personally feel that more and more “nationally” known groups, because of fuel, family, and economic considerations, will be more of a regional. There will be numerous nationally known groups but only a hand full that will travel to the extent they do now. The southeast will be base for most groups, a handful will be based in the southwest sector of the country and very sparse beyond that. It is simply a matter of adjusting to what our genre will support.

As far as SG being dead I seriously doubt that it will come to that. Watching the growth of country music should dispell that notion. Even in my own mid to large congregation, there are sworn CCM & P&W people who will make one of our events because they know the harmonies are going to be tight, they will be in for, dare I say, entetaining evening, and they will be lead in a tremendous worship experience. I still maintain that if our hearts are in the right place, people see a genuine love of Christ on our face they will continue to support our ministry. Even if we simply go regional, there are enough churches in Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana, and Oklahoma to keep any quality group busy for several years without having to return to the same place twice.

The reason there are some very quality groups staying part-time is because they know their families come first. We are one of them at this point.

As far as being the butt of a full-time groups jokes, I really am not concerned about that either. I will not apologize for having a full commitment to doing what is expected of me in my capacity with our group by God, even if that means being the butt of someone’s jokes. And to be honest, your statement is strange to me because in discussing the next step with the full-timers they are the ones who gave us the advice about being sure that it is what God wants us to do. And all who want to go full time do have to work toward it. Experience helps before you make that leap. Nor do I think that the desire to be full-time should override common sense in making the decisions.

My list was the list of not only the ones I personally enjoy, but also the ones that would be the draw in this area. We had the Perrys a few years ago for one of the $500 pass thru dates. We only had 25 people, but when we had the Poet Voices 3 years in a row (during their quartet days) we had about 300 each time. Does that mean the Perrys are bad? Absolutely not. It was just a matter of what the market wanted.

As for SG being dead in another 15 to 20 years, I am sorry you feel that way. I will let my teenage and young adult sons (oh and the church that had to change the date they booked us because the youth department didn’t want to miss us) that they are riding a dead horse. I personally won’t give up so easily. Where your statement could be correct is if no one is fighting to make the changes and just wants to let the bad practices continue. It may not make me popular, and it may make me the butt of jokes, but I will keep ringing the bell when possible.

Also let me tell you something else I believe 100%…God doesn’t “CALL” men and women to leave their wife/husband and children to be on the road 250 plus days away from them. That is the biggest lie and cop out in the music/evangelism industry and it has destroyed thousands of families…Obvious by the amount of adultery going on in SG. God instituted the Family before he did the church. By the way most fulltime groups laugh at “Part time groups who say “God hasn’t called us yet” or we are “working’ on going Full time. So I wouldn’t say that around your favorite groups if I were you…You’ll be the brunt of the next joke on the bus.

My contention with you comes from your lumping everyone together. It is just as disdainful for those of us who are part time either by choice or necessity, but also care that we present the best to the listeners and especially to the Lord, to be lumped in with those who are not at that level. But you are the one who said it about ALL part-timers, not me.

Your list is a good one, and I won’t disagree with the quality you have presented in it. We have talked to, seen, or worked with all these groups except the Kingsmen. The only problem is that the $500 plus a love offering days stopped a long time ago. How do I know? We have checked with this same list (except the Kingsmen).

Now here is my list of the top 5. Let me know if any of them would do a pass thru for $300 to $500.
Gold City
Booth Brothers
GVB
EHSSQ
Hoppers

Let me add a couple more
Legacy Five
Greater Vision

So while you picked some very good groups, my list of top groups is different. As you can see it is a taste thing.

Lee Bob is right. I, too, wish that talent was what was rewarded, but it isn’t and won’t be because no one can agree on what is the top 5, or 10, or 100, even.

The last thing. I am thrilled that the Lord delivered you and has given you the ability to work full-time for Him with your talents. We all have that in common, don’t we? Man only says which sins are big or small, in God’s eyes they are all the same. In actuality you and I are on the same page on this issue, I just choose to judge groups on their merits, not on their status.

With promoters trying to play off of “sangers” pipe dreams the best we can hope for is probably a two way street, which is all I ask. I used to think that we were doing pretty good on our schedule with all of us working full time but then I heard some of the other groups and saw their schedule. Amazing what is considered acceptable by some churches. I tell you it is feast or famine. Perhaps we have it all wrong and that is the biggest blunder. The poor kids are growing up thinking “this is all you got?”

Kingsmen
Old time gospel hour quartet
perrys
Dixie melody boys
Triumphant quartet

I have several more but these are probably the tops…The whisnants have had many top five songs so you can count them or discount them as a top group.

That’s my point when I say if you’re good you’re in…The industry needs to take that particular group and do everything necessary to make them successful. It’s kind of like this Christian music Presenters deal…They research and interview the artists and many referrals (So I’ve heard) and they choose to accept or not to accept. Only in this case money wouldn’t be changing hands. If you have excelled musically you will be rewarded. It’s like in the “good ole” days when you had that special something you would get signed. TALENT RULED…We need that to a certain degree again…Maybe I’m the one with too much idealism this time around. But one could hope.

Rod - I think we are on the same wave length…just not quite connecting. Your first blog (#35) did come across to me as though you felt part-time or church groups were 2nd citizens in the SG world.

Even from your own admission, you started as a part time ministry. How much sooner could you have moved to a full time ministry had your material been played on the air. From what I have heard around here, some of those that get air time actually get less bookings (boy how I hate that word) because of it.

I digress back to the original blog (blunders). Apparently there are alot of blunders that have been made through the years, some by mistake and some quite deliberately. I agree that some in the church have been overly conservative when it comes to their giving. What I have learned through my growing up process (still going on btw), is that when one place gives you a less than glamorous offering, somewhere along the line God makes it up. Ransomed and a couple of other groups have begun making a practice of tithing back to the church where we just sang. Chris usually writes the check before we leave. This says two things about Ransomed and the churches interaction with us: 1) The pastor or music minister is looking us in the eye when we hand him our tithe check, regardless of the sum. If it is $1.67 per person as is the average, he can better lead his congregation in the matter of taking care of a group and 2) we care about our ministry back to the church and being an example to his flock about financial responsibility to the Lord.

Again I say, when SG “ministries” stray from their roots they run into issues and we continue to have a reason for AVERYFINELINE (not a knock on this sight because I love this stuff) being in existence. It’s like a doctor telling you you have cancer and then only giving you something for the pain. You still have cancer but you feel a little better. Once we get the basics taken care of, many of these other minute points begin to take care of themselves.

note to AVERYFINELINE: I would like to see what would happen to a thread about getting back to the basics. Maybe this has already been done and I missed it because I am relatively new around here. Thanks for your ideas that you present to us.

So I think LeeBob and I are right in that you put down part-time groups. The words may not be there, but the attitude is. Your quoted comment suggests that anyone who is part-time (good or not) is not worthy of sharing the same radio air space as you. That’s the way I took it, and I wrote my comments before I knew anyone else’s. So obviously I am not alone in interpreting your comments that way.

My idealism works to our advantage. We hold ourselves to a higher standard. That is where the line should be drawn. Instead of getting rid of all part-time group exposure it is again the responsibility of the industry (radio and otherwise) to be responsible. Exposure for those who are up to the higher standard and none for those who aren’t. Your implication that no part-time group can meet that higher standard comes thru loud and clear.

Another thing that we at our low levels hear is the lack of consistency in personnel with some of their favorite national artists. At our level groups that have formed for the correct reasons and allow the Lord to work and take them where they need to go stay consistent with their personnel. I don’t have a problem with people changing teams (I have been a baseball fan for 33 years and have gotten used to the free agent thing) but I do think that constant change like we have seen for several years is hurting the industry as well.

Another thing to take into account is the area you work the most in. Part-time groups work certain areas most of the time. If they care about what they are doing then they know the idiosyncrasies of their neighborhood. Because they all work full-time jobs AND they minister on the weekends they are limited in the exposure they get outside of that area even when they are good. So if we had the standard you are advocating in that they shouldn’t get ANY radio time, then SG would definitely die because there would be no way for them to get exposure outside of their area to give the better ones the opportunity to go full-time, that is unless they buy their way in, of course.

The Dallas market for SG is unique. Reference the AGM. Unless you court and expose people in the small and medium churches, you lose the audience. And where does that put the national (full-time) groups?

My last point? When I wrote a blog last year about the need for quality and standards in SG, I was asked who would be the judge of what is and isn’t quality. And that is true. There are groups I do not like the sound of, but are they bad. Not to someone else. Yes, there are basic standards, but until the industry people hold people to them, they won’t be applied.

I think I will stick to my idealism. Right now the industry is showing more pragmatism (i.e. money versus quality) than idealism, and look where it has gotten us.

I was a part-timer for several years before I joined a fulltime group so I do know there are “good” groups out there but I think the point has been made by Rhonda even as idealistic as she is.

Also I can name 5 top SG groups that have worked for $300.00-500.00 in the past year.

Lee Bob to a degree we are missionaries…I am not a top name artist but I do know my way around the business and I make more money than 75% of any one artist out there…No bragging intended just blessed…But I work 130 dates a year and I am humping it every day on the phone and then traveling every week. I can tell you it is no picnic trying to be a one man operation. I work hard for every penny…However if I could I would do it for free…God changed me (drugs and prison) and now I get to do what I love to do and support my wife and five children doing it. Cool Huh?