Comments on: Dissent of the day http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/ Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music and culture Wed, 03 Dec 2008 20:48:46 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: Charlie http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-94551 Charlie Wed, 22 Aug 2007 19:15:57 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-94551 Yes, RevPaul, Chattville DOES seem to like Southern Gospel... They just like it 'straight' with no frills added. Yes, RevPaul, Chattville DOES seem to like Southern Gospel… They just like it ’straight’ with no frills added.

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-91757 quartet-man Mon, 20 Aug 2007 01:41:47 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-91757 I think most of the lines of the letter have been responded to quite well, but if this one has I missed it. It is the line that paraphrased said if you are all so smart about knowing how to start a group, put your money where you mouth is and start one yourselves. Although it is admirable that someone starts a group and possibly does it better than the "critics" do it, doesn't mean that the critics don't know what is required or recognize when something is not right. The world is full of movie and music reviewers, coaches, bosses etc. who either no longer or never could do something as well as those that they critique. It doesn't mean they do not make valid points. I am not talking those who have no clue what it takes or how to do it, but those who know but can't do it themselves. Some of the great voice teachers are not necessarily the best singers themselves, for that matter Gaither is not the best vocalist, but few here would say that he doesn't know his business or how to put a group together. I realize Gaither is doing it, and yet, one could have told him (and in fact may have) that his voice and piano playing skills were not good enough to be in an SG group. For that matter, there are those in part time groups who could likely do better than some full time groups, but choose not to due to travel, lack of money, family etc. So, there can be good reasons why someone doesn't do it besides just wanting to sit around and find fault. I think most of the lines of the letter have been responded to quite well, but if this one has I missed it.
It is the line that paraphrased said if you are all so smart about knowing how to start a group, put your money where you mouth is and start one yourselves.

Although it is admirable that someone starts a group and possibly does it better than the “critics” do it, doesn’t mean that the critics don’t know what is required or recognize when something is not right.

The world is full of movie and music reviewers, coaches, bosses etc. who either no longer or never could do something as well as those that they critique. It doesn’t mean they do not make valid points. I am not talking those who have no clue what it takes or how to do it, but those who know but can’t do it themselves. Some of the great voice teachers are not necessarily the best singers themselves, for that matter Gaither is not the best vocalist, but few here would say that he doesn’t know his business or how to put a group together.
I realize Gaither is doing it, and yet, one could have told him (and in fact may have) that his voice and piano playing skills were not good enough to be in an SG group. For that matter, there are those in part time groups who could likely do better than some full time groups, but choose not to due to travel, lack of money, family etc. So, there can be good reasons why someone doesn’t do it besides just wanting to sit around and find fault.

]]> By: David Bruce Murray http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90934 David Bruce Murray Sun, 19 Aug 2007 04:01:52 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90934 Braveguy, Yes, it was a very childish response to the very childish opinion of "put up or shut up." I do my best to relate to others on whatever level they've already established they're capable of communicating. By the way, I did write up a blog post recently that is aimed at any readers who want to discuss this issue on a more mature level. In the article, I spell out the purpose of my blog...what it isn't and what it is. You can view it here: http://www.musicscribe.com/blog/wordpress/?p=703 Braveguy,
Yes, it was a very childish response to the very childish opinion of “put up or shut up.” I do my best to relate to others on whatever level they’ve already established they’re capable of communicating.

By the way, I did write up a blog post recently that is aimed at any readers who want to discuss this issue on a more mature level. In the article, I spell out the purpose of my blog…what it isn’t and what it is.

You can view it here:
http://www.musicscribe.com/blog/wordpress/?p=703

]]> By: braveguy http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90786 braveguy Sat, 18 Aug 2007 22:18:02 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90786 CG, would you go to that church at CG or as your real name? Would you leave when they preached under the Holy Ghost and conviction came on you? It is easy to say that you will follow when you aren't being slandered, but what about when you are? You may then have to change your name and go back into hiding on a blog. Just a thought DBM, #10 seemed a good bit childish coming from you. It is weird seeing adults act as you did here. CG, would you go to that church at CG or as your real name? Would you leave when they preached under the Holy Ghost and conviction came on you? It is easy to say that you will follow when you aren’t being slandered, but what about when you are?
You may then have to change your name and go back into hiding on a blog. Just a thought

DBM, #10 seemed a good bit childish coming from you. It is weird seeing adults act as you did here.

]]> By: Rhonda Berry http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90628 Rhonda Berry Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:52:34 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90628 MSS My name is on here and you can click on it to find out about me if you wish. You could have put your name on here and I wouldn't mind knowing who sent the original. Doug probably doesn't put the names without permission and no doubt posted this to spur the discussion. That's what a good blogger does, put it out there for the readers to discuss. I will be honest and say that knowing who it was wouldn't change what I had to say. As much as I would like it to be different, there are things that need to be addressed in SG, and living in a pollyana world won't change those things. While it is true that there are times the wording is sharp, the discussion is necessary. Each person can take it however they want, and send it in whichever direction they want. CG, I would be glad to join in this illustrious effort. Let me know when and where to be!! MSS
My name is on here and you can click on it to find out about me if you wish. You could have put your name on here and I wouldn’t mind knowing who sent the original.
Doug probably doesn’t put the names without permission and no doubt posted this to spur the discussion. That’s what a good blogger does, put it out there for the readers to discuss.
I will be honest and say that knowing who it was wouldn’t change what I had to say. As much as I would like it to be different, there are things that need to be addressed in SG, and living in a pollyana world won’t change those things.
While it is true that there are times the wording is sharp, the discussion is necessary. Each person can take it however they want, and send it in whichever direction they want.

CG,
I would be glad to join in this illustrious effort. Let me know when and where to be!!

]]> By: MSS http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90620 MSS Sat, 18 Aug 2007 16:22:19 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90620 A friend of mine wrote the original comment. A copy was sent to me. It was signed and the e-mail address it was sent from contains the writers full name. From viewing "your letters" on this site, my guess is that Avery doesn't post anyones name. A friend of mine wrote the original comment. A copy was sent to me. It was signed and the e-mail address it was sent from contains the writers full name. From viewing “your letters” on this site, my guess is that Avery doesn’t post anyones name.

]]> By: David Bruce Murray http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90148 David Bruce Murray Sat, 18 Aug 2007 04:19:06 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90148 We don't know if the email was anonymous. We only know that Doug didn't reveal a name. It would be downright funny if it was, though. We don’t know if the email was anonymous.

We only know that Doug didn’t reveal a name.

It would be downright funny if it was, though.

]]> By: Leebob http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90084 Leebob Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:45:28 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90084 I don't think too much of what is written on Averyfineline is in anonymity, apart from the current start of this blog. I just love it when the accuser is guilty of what he/she is accusing others of. Do we also love the bloggers in their negativity or only those who happen to totally agree with what we are saying? Click the underlined people and you get a website, and perhaps a clue as to who is writing on this blog. That is part of the problem we face: some people have the money to buy a bus and go sing because they want to do so. This does not necessarily mean this is what they should be doing. Until we in SG confront the issues that we face (stacks, dress, style, etc.) and the facts (i.e. older and smaller crowds, the powers that be will not let loose for fear of losing what they already have, and hokey lyrics) nothing will change. This is a blog where people who genuinely care about the direction of SG can openly discuss the issues before us. Yes there will be some negativity and occasional back biting, but I do not doubt for one minute that everyone on here is interested in seeing SG flourish. Thank you Averyfineline for continuing to provide a place where we can all openly discuss these things regardless of the attitude that sometimes will present itself. I don’t think too much of what is written on Averyfineline is in anonymity, apart from the current start of this blog. I just love it when the accuser is guilty of what he/she is accusing others of. Do we also love the bloggers in their negativity or only those who happen to totally agree with what we are saying? Click the underlined people and you get a website, and perhaps a clue as to who is writing on this blog. That is part of the problem we face: some people have the money to buy a bus and go sing because they want to do so. This does not necessarily mean this is what they should be doing.

Until we in SG confront the issues that we face (stacks, dress, style, etc.) and the facts (i.e. older and smaller crowds, the powers that be will not let loose for fear of losing what they already have, and hokey lyrics) nothing will change. This is a blog where people who genuinely care about the direction of SG can openly discuss the issues before us. Yes there will be some negativity and occasional back biting, but I do not doubt for one minute that everyone on here is interested in seeing SG flourish.

Thank you Averyfineline for continuing to provide a place where we can all openly discuss these things regardless of the attitude that sometimes will present itself.

]]> By: CG http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90078 CG Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:32:14 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90078 Revpaul, Chattanooga loves QUALITY SG that's properly promoted. What time's service starting? Revpaul, Chattanooga loves QUALITY SG that’s properly promoted. What time’s service starting?

]]> By: CG http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90074 CG Sat, 18 Aug 2007 02:29:18 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90074 RF, the comparison to Rush is meant more for Brother Fineline's ability to get people talking about him, AND, more importantly, the issues at hand. I do agree with you, AVFL is more broadly focused on both sides of a (most) given topic. I love SG and AVFL! RF, the comparison to Rush is meant more for Brother Fineline’s ability to get people talking about him, AND, more importantly, the issues at hand. I do agree with you, AVFL is more broadly focused on both sides of a (most) given topic. I love SG and AVFL!

]]> By: Revpaul http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90035 Revpaul Sat, 18 Aug 2007 01:17:10 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-90035 Start a new work in Chattanooga, huh? Wonder if people there like Southern Gospel? Last couple o' years of Fan Fair?? Hmmmm!? Tell ya what, CG, wait till first week in April. Check out the attendance this year. Gotta check with DBM, my new MofM. See what he thinks . . . Hmmmm Start a new work in Chattanooga, huh?
Wonder if people there like Southern Gospel?
Last couple o’ years of Fan Fair?? Hmmmm!?
Tell ya what, CG, wait till first week in April.
Check out the attendance this year.
Gotta check with DBM, my new MofM.
See what he thinks . . .
Hmmmm

]]> By: RF http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89865 RF Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:08:30 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89865 I imagine Avery wouldn't want to be called the Rush Limbaugh of sg. Rush leans to the right on most everything regardless of the merit of the other side. Mr. Fineline is on both sides of the spectrum, leaning only to quality in sg music. As for the rest of your post, CG, we are in total agreement! I imagine Avery wouldn’t want to be called the Rush Limbaugh of sg. Rush leans to the right on most everything regardless of the merit of the other side. Mr. Fineline is on both sides of the spectrum, leaning only to quality in sg music.

As for the rest of your post, CG, we are in total agreement!

]]> By: CG http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89769 CG Fri, 17 Aug 2007 17:43:00 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89769 This truth (related to AVFL) I hold to: Avery is the Rush Limbaugh of SG. These wishes I hope for: 1) I wish Revpaul (post8) would start a church in Chattanooga. 2) I wish Rhonda Berry (post 9) was the Associate Pastor of said church. 3) I wish Revpaul and Rhonda Berry would appoint David Bruce Murray (post 10) as Minister of Music at the "new work". Why? Because they make sense (as in the common kind) and they actually believe in accountability for our actions. Oh, by the way: 4) I wish RP, RB, and DBM would schedule Brother Avery for a fall revival (at least 2 weeks). Preach on, ya'll! This truth (related to AVFL) I hold to:

Avery is the Rush Limbaugh of SG.

These wishes I hope for:

1) I wish Revpaul (post8) would start a
church in Chattanooga.

2) I wish Rhonda Berry (post 9) was the
Associate Pastor of said church.

3) I wish Revpaul and Rhonda Berry would
appoint David Bruce Murray (post 10)
as Minister of Music at the “new work”.

Why? Because they make sense (as in the common kind) and they actually believe in accountability for our actions.

Oh, by the way:

4) I wish RP, RB, and DBM would schedule
Brother Avery for a fall revival (at least
2 weeks).

Preach on, ya’ll!

]]> By: CVH http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89688 CVH Fri, 17 Aug 2007 14:54:38 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89688 What Jim E. Davis said...right on, bro. What Jim E. Davis said…right on, bro.

]]> By: Jim E. Davis http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89169 Jim E. Davis Fri, 17 Aug 2007 02:30:29 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89169 The majority of the ten commandments are thou shalt nots. In my experience, negative preaching usually produces positive living. If people are told what is wrong, then it is easier to discover what is right. Whitewashed truth loses power. Southern Gospel was saturated for too many years with an unrealistic everything-is-beautiful ideology. It may be uncomfortable but I believe that history will record that the results were positive. So get a stiffer upper lip and save the white gloves for the Tuesday brunch. As for me...I'll take the brown bag. The majority of the ten commandments are thou shalt nots. In my experience, negative preaching usually produces positive living. If people are told what is wrong, then it is easier to discover what is right. Whitewashed truth loses power. Southern Gospel was saturated for too many years with an unrealistic everything-is-beautiful ideology. It may be uncomfortable but I believe that history will record that the results were positive. So get a stiffer upper lip and save the white gloves for the Tuesday brunch. As for me…I’ll take the brown bag.

]]> By: David Bruce Murray http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89079 David Bruce Murray Fri, 17 Aug 2007 00:17:26 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89079 "Put up, or shut up." Hmm...wouldn't the most basic principles of logic demand that you take your own advice...as in, "start a blog, or shut up?" NA-NA-NA-NA-BOO-BOO, wash your face in DOO-DOO! (Hey, the name calling bar was set at second grade. I figured I may as well drop it on down to the kindergarten level.) :o) “Put up, or shut up.”

Hmm…wouldn’t the most basic principles of logic demand that you take your own advice…as in, “start a blog, or shut up?”

NA-NA-NA-NA-BOO-BOO, wash your face in DOO-DOO!

(Hey, the name calling bar was set at second grade. I figured I may as well drop it on down to the kindergarten level.) :o)

]]> By: Rhonda Berry http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89040 Rhonda Berry Thu, 16 Aug 2007 23:18:38 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-89040 My question to this person is "What fantasy world are you living in?" The reality of life in a Southern Gospel (maybe even any Christian) ministry is that there is as much world in it as there is heaven. While I can't address things on anything except a local level, I can say for a certainty after almost 10 years that I am finally over the shock that there would be back-biting, jealousy, and a lot of unChrist-like behavior involved in what we do. But having said that, there is also a lot of good. While it is great to be "positive" whenever possible and we should always be looking to the good, if there wasn't someone holding our feet to the fire, many people would end up thinking they had it right and it would actually not serve the purpose intended. Having heard about several instances recently where some local groups are criticized ANONYMOUSLY, all I can say is what I have told my 4 sons. "If you think you are right, and have the guts to say it, sign it." If you don't have the guts to put your name to it, it really isn't worth the paper it is written on. I never expect people to agree with everything I say 100%, and most of what I have ever written or said is usually done after conversations with others, I always put my name to it. I do not write or speak to intentionally hurt, and I doubt if Doug does either, but just as we expect our preachers to not avoid the truth just because someone doesn't like it, why should anyone else? I am not talking about rumor-mongering such as who is sleeping with whom, but about the music and things associated with it. If the "industry" people aren't going to hold our feet to the fire to point out things that may or may not need to be fixed, then someone has to. My question to this person is “What fantasy world are you living in?”

The reality of life in a Southern Gospel (maybe even any Christian) ministry is that there is as much world in it as there is heaven.

While I can’t address things on anything except a local level, I can say for a certainty after almost 10 years that I am finally over the shock that there would be back-biting, jealousy, and a lot of unChrist-like behavior involved in what we do. But having said that, there is also a lot of good.

While it is great to be “positive” whenever possible and we should always be looking to the good, if there wasn’t someone holding our feet to the fire, many people would end up thinking they had it right and it would actually not serve the purpose intended.

Having heard about several instances recently where some local groups are criticized ANONYMOUSLY, all I can say is what I have told my 4 sons. “If you think you are right, and have the guts to say it, sign it.” If you don’t have the guts to put your name to it, it really isn’t worth the paper it is written on.

I never expect people to agree with everything I say 100%, and most of what I have ever written or said is usually done after conversations with others, I always put my name to it.

I do not write or speak to intentionally hurt, and I doubt if Doug does either, but just as we expect our preachers to not avoid the truth just because someone doesn’t like it, why should anyone else? I am not talking about rumor-mongering such as who is sleeping with whom, but about the music and things associated with it. If the “industry” people aren’t going to hold our feet to the fire to point out things that may or may not need to be fixed, then someone has to.

]]> By: Revpaul http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-88948 Revpaul Thu, 16 Aug 2007 21:33:20 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-88948 [i]I recently stumbled across your web site[/i] Averyfineline is certainly the most well-known of all SG blogs. There are few who regularly interact with Southern Gospel websites who just "stumble across" Avery. [i]You hide under a cloak of anonymity[/i] That's normal for all blogs on the internet. I use "Revpaul" not only on this board, but on many other SG sites. It's no cloak and I'm not hiding. I'm Pastor Paul McCoy, Fellowship Bible Church, Zephyrhills, FL. I know and interact regularly with many SG groups and have booked monthly concerts for five years. [i]We are expected to offer encouragement and be supportive of God’s servants. If there are groups whose motivation is questionable, it is God’s place to deal with that, not ours.[/i] We are expected to help God's servants to excel in their ministry. Constructive criticism is always in order. Often, the way God deal with a group's questionable motivation is to use his people to point out the problem. [i]to all you guys who know how SGM should be done, buy a bus, start a group, and do it right.[/i] As a fan for many years of SGM, yes I do have real opinions of how SGM should be done. However I will not buy a bus and start a group. That's not my calling. But I will support the singing and I will offer my opinion and insights, and I will continue to pray God's richest blessing upon the efforts of the singers whom God has called. By the way, what was your name?? [i]I recently stumbled across your web site[/i]

Averyfineline is certainly the most well-known of all SG blogs. There are few who regularly interact with Southern Gospel websites who just “stumble across” Avery.

[i]You hide under a cloak of anonymity[/i]

That’s normal for all blogs on the internet. I use “Revpaul” not only on this board, but on many other SG sites. It’s no cloak and I’m not hiding. I’m Pastor Paul McCoy, Fellowship Bible Church, Zephyrhills, FL. I know and interact regularly with many SG groups and have booked monthly concerts for five years.

[i]We are expected to offer encouragement and be supportive of God’s servants. If there are groups whose motivation is questionable, it is God’s place to deal with that, not ours.[/i]

We are expected to help God’s servants to excel in their ministry. Constructive criticism is always in order. Often, the way God deal with a group’s questionable motivation is to use his people to point out the problem.

[i]to all you guys who know how SGM should be done, buy a bus, start a group, and do it right.[/i]

As a fan for many years of SGM, yes I do have real opinions of how SGM should be done. However I will not buy a bus and start a group. That’s not my calling. But I will support the singing and I will offer my opinion and insights, and I will continue to pray God’s richest blessing upon the efforts of the singers whom God has called.

By the way, what was your name??

]]> By: Bryan B. http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-88853 Bryan B. Thu, 16 Aug 2007 20:02:19 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-88853 No checks and balances, no "watchdog" media role... in other words no accountability. All this has helped create the quagmire that is the Southern Gospel Music "Industry" No checks and balances, no “watchdog” media role… in other words no accountability. All this has helped create the quagmire that is the Southern Gospel Music “Industry”

]]> By: Kyle http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-88846 Kyle Thu, 16 Aug 2007 19:40:08 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2007/08/16/dissent-of-the-day/#comment-88846 For someone who really enjoys the business side of the industry, I find this site VERY informative. It does not sugar coat everything. It's put out there to show everyone exactly what's going on from multiple angles. I quote William Lee Golden - "When you're in this business....you have to realize that this IS a BUSINESS." Your favorite gospel artist, ideally, is working for God, and accepting His financial blessings gratefully as their reward. But the truth of the matter is, these artists are running a full-fledge business of their own, and certain decisions and actions are made in the best interest of said business. What SG blogs do is observe, offer commentary, critique, and offer suggestions to these aspects of the industry. For someone who really enjoys the business side of the industry, I find this site VERY informative. It does not sugar coat everything. It’s put out there to show everyone exactly what’s going on from multiple angles.

I quote William Lee Golden - “When you’re in this business….you have to realize that this IS a BUSINESS.” Your favorite gospel artist, ideally, is working for God, and accepting His financial blessings gratefully as their reward. But the truth of the matter is, these artists are running a full-fledge business of their own, and certain decisions and actions are made in the best interest of said business.

What SG blogs do is observe, offer commentary, critique, and offer suggestions to these aspects of the industry.

]]>