Open thread

NQC is less than a month away (Chuck Peters has a handy NQC clock here), the Collingsworths have been added to the Gaither tour (hat tip, Daniel Mount), and Rick Goodman is STILL selling that limited supply of “Mom’s Special Handkerchiefs.” Chalk up another contender for the chutzpah award. What’s on your mind?

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  1. Alan wrote:

    Well. So much for “Homecoming fatigue!” All I can say is, Mr. Bill has struck again, as his largely unfailing ability to sniff out the best of new talent has come through again. Best of all, they’re great people and very classy. He gets a world-class pianist, young people, another family sound, and a group that will represent his tour with dignity and exceptional music. And, the kids only get better as they mature. Scary thought, isn’t it?! In one move, their addition makes me want to go see the Homecoming tour again. As well, Janet Paschal will be doing some of the Homecoming dates again too. As I said - no more “fatigue”. If I’d had one complaint of the HT, it was that it had lost some of its class, and had gravitated more to pure entertainment. No longer. Another stroke of genius, this.

  2. Mark Forester wrote:

    What exactly is the ministry of Rick Goodman? I could not find much on his site except asking for money and selling all his mom and dads stuff. Is that a ministry we should plant seed in as he requests? I can get most of that music on ebay or my local bookstore.

    I don;t want to unfairly knock him so I was curious if there is some great ministry I was unaware of.

  3. Don't Shoot Me wrote:

    Before someone gets your gun loaded and cocked read the entire message.

    I recently subscribed to a gospel music magazine that I believe is fairly new.
    Looking at the content, it seems that there are more articles on Christian Living, sermons etc. than on Gospel Music. If not the percentage seems pretty high. In some ways that seems like false advertising.

    I am all for having some in the magazine as it could possibly be the only place some people might read this stuff. However, although I like Sloppy Joe, and although it has hamburger in it, if I order a hamburger, that is what I expect to get.

    I think it is appropriate for most, if not all articles on Christian living at least be by those in the Gospel Music Industry (especially artists who feel led to share.) I find those interesting and at least they would be more Gospel Music related than what is in there. I am not even adverse to maybe one from the editor or owner or one pastor. (Especially perhaps those who support the industry.) However, when many of these articles seem to be by fans or those I have never heard of, and these seem to outweigh the subject of the title of the magazine, I feel a bit led on and lied to. It isn’t what I ordered, so to speak.

    I find it similar to Gospel singers spending more time preaching or pastors spending more time singing than preaching. Each has their own part to contribute. If I want a predominately Christian living magazine, there are those that do it much better than this probably does.

    This is in no way saying there should be none in the magazine (although I am sure some here might desire that.) It is in no way saying that some good might not come of it, or that these people do not have the best of intentions. I think it is great that they are committing the magazine to God and seeking to honor him. I don’t think misleading people is a good way to do it.

    If a Christian Living magazine is what they feel led to produce, then let the title and how you promote it show that.
    Don’t sell Coke (the real thing) as Caffeine Free Diet Coke.

  4. Derek wrote:

    I, too, would like to know about this “ministry” of Rick Goodman. I also find it very interesting that all of this stuff is “signed.” I would like to say more, but attorneys cost money and I don’t have very many “partners” sowing seeds right now!

  5. Leebob wrote:

    Homecoming fatigue - getting tiredhead because you have seen the same thing before….

    I love the HT for what it has done to rejuvinate SG. However, I know going into it what I am going to get. About one or two songs from groups, including the ones that I enjoy the most. I leave HT, having enjoyed the evening, but not as much as the evenings that Harold Marshall with Lake Country Jubilee when three groups are up there each getting enough time to TRULY display their talent. Yes, Bill is still selling tickets, if for no other reason than his name. He has earned that right. But personally, as much as I love The Hopper’s, can they not find another crowd favorite besides “Shoutin’ Time”? I am hoping that Bill’s move back to Ft Worth from Dallas will maybe change things a little bit. We shall see.

    I have not been to HT the past couple of times they came through because of the sameness that it tends to present. Unless somebody can tell me that something has actually changed I will probably only make this venture about once every three to five years. I’ll stick to what Harold is doing with less downtown traffic and, yes, better quality.

    Retrieing back to my anti-stone barricade so you may begin casting.

  6. WAVINGWALLY_23 wrote: I got a e-mail on this yesterday. I did not subscribe to it yet-but it looks very interesting. Great looking site too.

  7. Revpaul wrote:

    Yeah, I went over to Rick’s website too, tryin’ to figure out the “ministry.” Hey, look, he’s got a “chat” room. I’ll just click on that.
    The folks in there can explain it to me. Click! Oops, little chat’s gonna cost ten bucks. Can I lurk a minute and see who’s in there to chat with? Nope. Ten bucks.

  8. WAVINGWALLY_23 wrote:

    yep-REVPAUL…looks like they both cost $10.00 Kirk Talleys radio station is costing $9.95/month-looks like Ricks is $10.00 month

  9. WAVINGWALLY_23 wrote:

    maybe Doug Harrison should sell this site. $5.00 month, get 5,000 subscribers and make $25,000 a month

  10. Bryan wrote:

    “If you my friends join us today as a SPECIAL FAITH PARTNER, Dianne and I as a sign of a Covenant of Faith with you are going to send to you one of my Mom’s Special Handkerchiefs. These where made especially for her and the amount on hand is limited. So, please respond immediately and become a Special Faith Partner today.”

    And when Rick runs out of the limited “amount on hand” he will hop into his shiny Faithmobile and drive down to the Dollar Tree and pick up another limited “amount on hand”

    Snake Oil with extra cheese…shameless.

    Seriously…is this the best Goodman DNA that’s left out there?

    Tanya come forth.

  11. Revpaul wrote:

    Bryan, careful what you quote. Rick’s might even have a circled-c on his emails! Says at the bottom, No part of this E-mail may be reproduced without the expressed written permission of Goodman Family Ministries. In other words, send money, but don’t quote me!

  12. Bryan K. Fowler wrote:

    I think you guys should give them a break. If they want to sell things and people want to buy them-then so be it.

  13. Revpaul wrote:

    Bryan K, it’s not about sellin’ things, it’s about hundred-dollar hankies being a “ministry”.

  14. Bryan wrote:

    Uh-Oh…Wheres that “edit” feature when you need it.

    Um my phone’s ringing…


  15. Bryan K. Fowler wrote:

    REVPAUL…. please clarify. Make sure everyone knows that you are not talking about me. Two different Bryans posting. Sorry.

  16. Matthew Moore wrote:

    Can someone please help me understand the photo on Michael Comb’s cd “Soldier”? The dogs, the tennis shoes, the “why are you taking my picture” look on his face. Does Mr. Combs have a pr guy. If so, he should be fired. If not, he should get one soon.

  17. Still Laughing wrote:

    I have a couple of comments.
    - #1 did you also know that Michael Combs and Young Harmony were added to a couple of the Gaither lineups? Hmmm?
    - #6 When you cant be played on radio anymore because of being pulled out of the closet, why not start your own radio land?
    - what is going on with Eddie Crooke selling the business to Dave Wilcocks?

  18. bigken54 wrote:

    Speaking of websites, would anyone be able to guess which group has this quote on their site? “When you hear all of this talent, and meet these wonderful and interesting people, you will know beyond the shadow of a doubt that you have experienced the ultimate group! Many groups claim it, but few actually attain it. They are an experience you will never forget. See this living legend in person.” (Hint: Ron and R.W.)

  19. Mark Forester wrote:

    Fine…..sell the stuff…..but don’t call it a ministry. A ministry preaches Christ. I see none of that.

    If he thinks the ministry is getting his parents music out, he should open a bookstore. I don’t see my local bookstore asking for “seed” partners.

    What did he do…have his elderly mother sitting around for hours signing hankerchiefs? How did he get so many? He says limited supply, but I am sure that if there are 1000 “seed” partners, he can find 1000 signed hankies.

    Get a Job.

  20. Bryan wrote:

    In all fairness Mark…It said the that the limited edition BIBLES available only to the STRATEGIC FAITH partners were signed…not the hankies which are available to the lower ranking albeit still vital SPECIAL FAITH partners. At any rate what it boils down to is that Rick inherited neither his parent’s talent nor class.

    Very tacky.

  21. bp wrote:

    The hankies are one thing…but what about this iPod? Is $450 a little high?

  22. me wrote:

    I love this banter! And we haven’t even gotten to NQC yet! Or will it be more like the dubious Fan Fair this year? Hear not many prof groups attending…

  23. AD wrote:

    Wayelllll, some of our website’s chatrooms are free…including mine!!! :)

  24. Common Tater wrote:

    In reference to post .16 = Michael Combs doesn’t only need to hire a pr person, he needs to hire someone to teach him manners. The next you attend an event and he is on the program, take note of how many times he scolds the soundman from the stage. His attitude toward the soundman is horrible.

    On another open thread, someone asked about Rodney Baucom. I found this: I certainly hope that the “new” JOYFM recovers from the loss of this award-winning talents’ departure. I personally think that this will be one of those “New Coke” moments. We’ll see.

  25. Kyle wrote:

    KirkFM?? I saw it. I laughed. I am going to bite my tongue on the obvious jokes….

  26. WAVINGWALLY_23 wrote:

    Kyle wrote:

    KirkFM?? I saw it. I laughed. I am going to bite my tongue on the obvious jokes….

    I saw it… Its kind of a neat idea. I can see a lot of fans listening. They are bloodhounds I hear…

  27. David wrote:

    Re: #21: The cheapest 30GB video iPod on Yahoo Shopping was $250, & the music if purchased separately is well over $200. Throw in the time it takes to download all that to an iPod & this might actually be the best deal on the site, or should we say the meat under all the cheese?

  28. quartet-man wrote:

    Man, some interesting thoughts here. I could spend far too much time replying, but I have places to go and people to meet. (Well at least the first right now. :-0)

    I will look forward to reading replies on some of these.

  29. leadguy wrote:

    I guess I will have to wait and see if the Collingsworth still spend 15 minutes introducing each child while on the Gaither tour.

  30. QN wrote:


  31. HHE wrote:

    Ok aready……Have you read Rick’s bio? Now, I’m not gonna say that all the credit aknowledged on his bio smacks of incredible.

    However I must ask…Really?

    I’ve read alot of Album covers in my day and I can’t recall seeing his name ever on the stuff I own. Now, I am getting on up there in years, and me memory ain’t what it once was. Hey, ya’ll heard his name on any awards show?

    I smell something fishy here.

    Hey Rick do what the rest of us have done…Get a job…

    Wish my Mom & Dad were famous…I could have some of them thar Partners keeping me from working and support’n myself.

  32. Jason wrote:

    Young Harmony on Gaither???? Right that will never happen. hahahaha yea I needed that laugh this morning

  33. Charlie Tuna wrote:

    I don’t want Southern Gospel Music with good taste - I want Southern Gospel music that tastes good. Give me stacks……

  34. leadguy wrote:

    Next up on the Goodman Family Auction block:
    1. one half used bag of coconut
    2. one slightly-used bottle of baby powder
    3. six cases of Aqua-Net hairspray

  35. art wrote:

    May I digress? I have a question about the economics of Christian radio, and I’m sure one of Avery’s fine readers can answer it. Do the radio stations buy the content offered by folks like David Jeremiah, Chuck Swindoll and Charles Stanley? Or do the ministers buy the time from the radio stations? In short, who pays whom?

  36. Steve wrote:

    ” At any rate what it boils down to is that Rick inherited neither his parent’s talent nor class.”

    And, apparently not much of their money.

  37. jb wrote:

    After reading the Goodman website, one statement stuck out and bothered me: “I feel someone is going to plant a larger seed and receive a huge blessing”. Correct me if I am wrong, but, I don’t have to plant a larger seed of money to receive a huge blessing. I serve a much bigger God than that. I loved the Goodmans ministry, but, her hankies can do no more for me than Oral Roberts healing cloths. I do not know Rick Goodman so I am not going to make any statements concerning his motives.

  38. Stephe wrote:

    The ‘ministry’ of Rick Goodman is no difference than what The Elvis Presley Foundation does year after year..make MILLIONS of dollars off of his name. If Rick inherited the name and the legacy, then so be it. If someone has an issue with the merchandise being ’signed’ or there being an unlimited quantity available, then DON’T BUY IT! If he’s doing something unethical, God will catch up with him. It’s no different than the Unthankyou’s selling memberships into their Southern SPUN Enterthudment Group for a website that looks just like all the other artist’s. I find it fascinating they are actually still in business.

    The Collinsworth Family on the Gaither Tour…..THE HILLS REALLY ARE ALIVE!

  39. jb wrote:

    Is Rick Goodman the only child, oldest, youngest, or where does he fall? Guess I never knew he existed.

  40. leadguy wrote:

    Obviously, RG has a right to do with his Mama’s worldly leftovers as he wants. I just wonder how acceptable it should be for the spawn of two legends to peddle everything ever touched by his parents. Call a spade a spade. Obviously, he has inherited a stockpile of product that even Greater Vision couldn’t sell in a month of Sundays; i.e. hankies, closets full of dresses (likely to eventually be auctioned off to NQC or a Gaither concert near you!) , Vestal Bears, and the famous Vestal and the Happy Goodman’s iPod. And if he ever runs out of those precious hankies (K-Mart has a special on them this week, RG!), he can continue to stamp V&F on everything they have on the clearance rack at his local christian book store.

    Maybe I am being mean, but what is left of the “ministry” of the Goodmans? The music has been sung, the hankies have been waved, the cookbooks have been sold. What is the purpose in becoming a Faith Partner of the GFM?
    The Collingsworth Family = overrated

  41. mark forester wrote:

    I actually think that if people want to pay the Unthanks , they are getting a service in return. How great is that service? I don’t know ….I have never paid for it. I CAN tell you that I at least know of the groups that pay fot Southern Spins service beacuse I see the adds,news releases (such as they are) and such.

    I see nothing but (using my Freedom Of Speech rights) a rippoff artist in What Rick Goodman is trying to do.

    Last year it was praying at Vestals Grave, this year Hankies……next year….I am afraid he will start selling Wig combs.

    In fairness, the $450 Ipod is not a bad deal considering all the content loaded on it. If I was the worlds biggest Goodman fan I might do that.

  42. Charlie wrote:

    I’ve heard the rants of Combs at concerts…He can’t seem to get ENOUGH ‘Reverb’!!

    I’ve heard him holler for “REVERB!” –Right smack dab in the middle of his ‘hit’ songs…

    At first, I thought he was just telling us that his ‘reverb!’ was ‘NOT FOR SALE!’

    “Not for sale… More Reverb… No way No how, REVERB!! Not for sale…”

    Then, one night at a huge concert date in Virginia, he didn’t show up to sing until about 2 hours after the concert started. He parked his van & trailer in front of the 2 tour buses of the groups that had been there all day setting up the sound system that he implied was inferior.

    He then set up his product table in the middle of the aisle where all the concert goers exited instead of ‘over to the side’, where the other groups were trying to sell. Caused a ‘traffic jam’ of biblical proportions. (No one went to the other groups in the rear of the ampitheatre, where they were instructed by the promoter to set up their product.) Then, after the other 2 groups got loaded up, and attempted to head out to their next destination, they had to wait over an hour for him to move his rig– He was even kindly asked several times to move (or have someone move) his vehicle. He refused. Real professional, huh?

    And about that CD cover… I wondered, ‘Why would someone want to look so MAD on a CD of someone who’s supposedly singing about a loving God? If it had been a theme photo to match the title song, it might’ve been OK, but I didn’t make that correlation.

    Good thing M.C. ain’t for sale…’cause I ain’t a buyin’!!!

  43. David wrote:

    #39: Maybe someone needs to register’s available, I just checked)-it could be the next big thing! Vestal’s hankies, Jake’s toupees-the possibilities are endless!

  44. Ann Tanna wrote:

    I think the “who pays whom” of folks like Jeremiah, Swindoll and Stanley, depends on the type of broadcast. Some major ministries will offer a short program to stations (usually 60 seconds vignettes) for free. When you get into the larger blocks of programming (15, 30, & 60 minutes), radio stations rarely give away this much air time. So, the ministries will purchase air time for their broadcasts.

  45. leadguy wrote:

    David of #42-
    Obviously, if RG finds his way here, the domain will be registered tomorrow afternoon. Bright idea!

    Perhaps Gaither should start a tour of “Children of Legends.” RG can sing “Wouldn’t Take Nothing for my Journey Now.” Tanya sings “Who Am I?” Benjy Gaither sings “He Touched Me,” followed by his interpretation of one of Glo’s coma-inducing recitations. Jimmy Blackwood singing “I’ll Meet You in the Morning,” just after he pitches the Blackwood Brothers latest RCA recording. More endless possibilities.
    Just imagine!, the stage would be full of people that slightly resemble the stars of yesteryear. Consider the aesthetics alone! The stage would be a cavalcade of Hawaiian shirts. The lights creating a shimmer around each heavily gold-chain-decorated neck and Mamas’ left-behind beaded gowns.

    Maybe I am getting carried away… But! just think of the leftover products that would be on sale at the tables in the back! All the audio cassettes you can fit in your trunk for only $5!!!!

  46. Trent wrote:

    Did anybody else freak out when they saw the headline on “Jonathon Wilburn Goes Home”? I thought he had died initially until I read the article.

  47. Dave wrote:

    What ever happened to Howard & Vestal’s daughter Vicki? / Ricky’s sister.

    You never hear anything about her.

  48. Alan wrote:

    Several comments: all of the radio networks and stations that I know have an agreed price per time slot that the various ministries pay for. From what I’ve heard, the majority of the larger ministries, like Dr. Stanley, Jeremiah, Zacharias, etc., are quite good and prompt in their payments. I’ve also heard horror stories about some of the “ministries” falling so far behind in their payments, that the station owners have no choice but to drop them.

    As for Rick Goodman, he’s Howard and Vestal’s oldest child. He also has a younger sister, Vickie. Rick played drums on a number of my albums years ago, as he also was in their band. It hurts me to see what he’s doing. I also read through his entire website, and saw no real ministry other than a promise that he and his wife Dianne will pray personally
    for those who are “seed partners”. My personal opinion is that he’s simply trying to keep making money off of the legacy his parents and family left behind. Sad…
    Rusty would have been so embarrassed if he’d lived to see this. Hopefully if Rick sees this, he’ll realize how it’s all coming across.

  49. pseudorachel wrote:

    #45 - When I saw that Jonathan Wilburn “goes home” I too thought something terrible must’ve happened. That was just an odd way to phrase a headline.

  50. LTR wrote:

    ” At any rate what it boils down to is that Rick inherited neither his parent’s talent nor class.”

    I can’t type any more because this comment made me spew my coffee all over my keyboard!

  51. Dave wrote:

    Does anybody ever hear news from Parker Jonathan anymore? Last i heard , he was driving a bus or truck.

  52. Revpaul wrote:

    Let’s see, from Jonathan Wilburn to Parker Jonathan, wouldn’t Ivan Parker be the next progression? [grin]

  53. CVH wrote:

    RE: #34, 43 & 47, on syndicated radio programming, most commercial stations have a rate card that determines the airtime cost for anything from 5 min. to 60 min. (or longer) blocks of airtime. The cost varies by daypart and availability. The syndicator pays the station for the airtime. Most of the time syndicators are 30-60 days behind but consistent so there is seldom a problem. In some cases they get way behind and the station has to pull them off and take a loss.

    In the case of non-commercial stations, programs are usually put on at no charge but they then give back to the station a percentage of the revenue they receive that is attributed to that station. That’s why you usually hear an announcer saying something to the effect of “be sure to include our call letters when you write…”

    The practice of bartering airtime used to be more prevalent but it’s not done very often anymore. Programs run through cycles of support. Some of the current ‘hot’ ones are ‘Walk in the Word’ with James McDonald (a program that inserts a plug for their merchandise about every 10 minutes, very annoying) and Chip Ingram’s ‘Living on the Edge’. Surprisingly, Chuck Swindoll’s ‘Insight For Living’, which is still, 20 years later, well-produced and full of great content, has taken a slide in listener support, probably in large part to poor or non-prime placement on stations that are putting more emphasis on music than programming.

  54. Janice wrote:

    RE: leadguy’s message #44: Don’t be hateful. “Glo’s coma-inducing recitations” is pretty harsh, don’t you think? There is a lot of wisdom in most of her recitations. I don’t think they are supposed to be entertaining–just thought-provoking.

  55. TE wrote:

    Why do people complain that DJ’s don’t announce song titles and artist names when the listener is not going to be able to find the product in a store anyway? Get reasonable distribution before your complain…. and/or an easily found website is the minimum and everyone can do it for little cost.

  56. Chuck Peters wrote:

    Buying the CD is not the only reason a DJ should give song and artist info. Sometimes listeners just want to know who sings what? A reasonable request.

  57. te wrote:

    #56…a reasonable request and good form but usually followed by, “I want to get that song for……”

  58. jp wrote:

    And the artists are sending out these radio discs because what? they want to have people request their songs and be #1? Somewhere there has to be the hope that someone will say ” I want to be able to listen to that song when I want to, not just whenever some $7/hour DJ feels like playing it” So you wander down to your village Christan Bookstore and buy or order it, or go online and pay out the nose for shipping and handling.
    Oh, and what’s the deal with Morristown? Perrys and Greater Vision, who else?

  59. Jim E. Davis wrote:

    Borrowed my daughter’s car which has XM. Listened to Enlighten for the first time where they don’t enlighten you on who is singing the songs. Too bad. Heard a lot of songs that I don’t want to hear again and if I knew who was being played then I would know not to buy their recordings. Sigh. Can’t have everything, I guess.

  60. dkd wrote:

    Janice # 54, I have to agree with Leadguy#44….re: Glo’s mind numbing recitations, gag me with a spoon. Sorry, but I have to leave the room when she comes on.

  61. Joe wrote:

    To Jim E. Davis, above- I don’t have XM either, but my daughter does: I believe that while the song is playing, you can key a radio control that crawls the artist across the screen.

    And as to not having the DJ announce who sung what, I have heard those make fun of Pul Hile, because the moment a song is done, he mentions in no uncertain terms the song, and who sung it. Make fun of him if you wish…but there is NO doubt on his program who just finished singing!

  62. DAND wrote:

    Ref #59….at least with Enlighten (XM 34), the title and artist are displayed on the radio display screen.

  63. okie dokie wrote:

    Satellite radio is of the devil.

  64. one mans opinion wrote:


  65. Tony Watson wrote:

    #58 - Morristown is home of Tracy Stuffle, Gerald Wolfe, Kirk and Roger Talley, Jane Greene Johnson (formerly of Speers), and Greg Shockley, and perhaps others. It’s an unusually blessed town it would seem.

    Perrys no longer call Morristown home, however - they are based out of Gallatin, TN now.

  66. natesings wrote:

    #58 I believe The Talleys also call Morristown home.

  67. jp wrote:

    65 & #66, Thanks,
    that part of the comment was probably posted on the wrong thread anyway.

  68. Dave wrote:

    I thought about getting that XM radio, but i thought , why pay a monthly fee to here what i don’t want to hear, when i can play my Cd’s of what i like anytime i want.

  69. leadguy wrote:

    Janice #54- I am glad that Ms. Gaither’s mind-numbing attempt at displaying her oratorial skills inspire you. So many people find inspiration in anything Gaither. As for me, I would prefer to have several prostate exams in a row…. but you already know how I feel.

    dkd #60- its good to know I am not alone.

  70. Scott wrote:

    I grew up in Morristown, and when I was younger, I used to see Gerald would at one of the local Food City stores. This was the early 90s when he was wearing those horrible JC Penney acryllic sweaters, like the one he sported on the singing news in 92 or 93.

    As a fashion plate, Gerald Wolfe is an excellent pianist.

  71. Leebob wrote:

    In peeking from behind my anti-stone barricade I see we have now gone from tel-evangelists to cyber-evangelists. Don’t we already create enough skepticism with Christianity from the “seed-sowers”, hanky selling, buy a brick preachers in the world? Now we are reduced to selling old hankies, not even my own, and I’ll pray for you?

    Go to Ransomed’s website, look around, don’t buy a thing (or buy something if you like) and we’ll pray for you for free. Simply email us the need.

    Gheeeeesh, Chiristianity needs to get it together or get out of the way. So much for “not taking your purse”. Those are Christ’s words, not mine.

    Back to the anti-stone barricade.

  72. Don't Shoot Me wrote:

    Gloria’s monologues are not for me either. I am not big on reading parts in songs. However, that type of thing is something that touches her and I imagine others like her. J.D. had a comment about them before he died, and it was good.

    I do have to admit, lately other artists have been reading her thoughts. I recognize right away that they are her words. If you look at the credits, you see I am right too.

  73. gc wrote:

    Triumphant exiting the theatre gig? How long can they stay on the road full time? some of those guys have not been on the road full time in several years….will be a tough transition for their families. I do like them and hope it works out for them…

  74. ST wrote:

    I wonder if Jeff Stice will still be “Freddie” at the “Hoot & Hollar” show next door? There is even a painting of him as “Freddie the piano player” on the wall in the foyer of the show.

    It would be hard to do that show and be on the road also.

  75. Alan wrote:

    I can’t remember a more diverse thread ever on this site! It’s more like “What hasn’t been touched on her?!” So allow me to respond to a few posts from above. I’m one who is always blessed by Gloria Gaither’s recitations. I’m always awed by those who are true wordsmiths, and imho, she has few peers, if any. The more I listen to what she says, the more I get. It’s not only the words she says, but also the truths she covers. There have been times when her recitations follow songs whose lyrics are vacuous at best, and I soar on the greatness of her thoughts and words. Anyway, my opinion, for whatever it’s worth. I had to be the lone voice of dissent here. Her lyrics are in hymn books while she’s still very much alive, for crying out loud! So, if you can name me others who share a distinction like that, I’d love to know who they are!

  76. RR wrote:

    Bravo, Alan! I totally agree!

  77. Don't Shoot Me wrote:

    Glad to hear that you are one of those who she reaches. We are not all alike and I was sure some would get her and be ministered by her.
    With that said, you might want to rephrase the line that said ““What hasn’t been touched on her?!”” :-)

  78. Alan wrote:

    Heehee - Thanks, Don’t Shoot Me! My bad. Flying index fingers missed the last “e”! And to think that I try to catch my own typos. The one time that I did miss was a zinger!
    I’d bet that there are a lot more who find Gloria’s recitations remarkable and memorable, but who are afraid to say so. But, it’s like all things with music - it’s a very subjective thing. So, “Don’t shoot me”, RR and I will continue to like Gloria’s words, and you enjoy your new Vestal hankie! LOL

  79. Steven wrote:

    Maybe since there are gloria recicitation fans…gaither could make a killing with gloria inspired greeting cards. Birthday, Wedding, Funeral, Homecoming themed cards…with a MINIMUM of 3 paragraphs. Even better would be some of those “speaking” cards. You open it and are immediately whisked away to a mountain top where you are being read to by gloria about your birthday/annivesary/death/childbirth/homecoming purchase

  80. RR wrote:

    Bill and Gloria are two of the few genius mentalities in this business. Interesting how they are scorned by so many.

  81. JM wrote:

    I had been out of touch with SG music from about 1980 until just recently. When I left this merry little band of hanky-waving, polyester-wearing folks, BG was still trapped in his trio-former school teacher-Anderson, IN schtik. Had an occassion to record an album at Pinebrook (?) Studios and realized I liked the stage BG, better than the business BG. Twenty some years later and BG has turned SG music nostalga into a tidy, proffitable little business. Not that I’m finding fault…let the buyer beware. Problem is…what happens when all the legends are called up to a “higher stage?” Guess we’ll find out in the coming years. RR: Scorned, no. Suspect, yes! Genius, perhaps. Opportunist, indeed!

  82. Montana Man wrote:

    It’s easy to be a critic — no license nor brains required. Just sound off. So I will. For those who pan Gloria’s recitations, there are two things involved: 1. Writing. 2. Delivering. I’m curious how many of those who pan Gloria are writers. What have you written? Who’s published it? And secondly, what have you delivered orally? Sure, tell me you emcee for your group.

    Regarding recitations by males: Ed Enoch once told me that J D Sumner (who did a few) claimed the best deliverer was Dave Kyllonen of the Couriers, now Dave Duane & Neil.

  83. quartet-man wrote:

    Montana Man, I see no reason to attack those who just aren’t into recitations as long as they just say it isn’t something they prefer. The only reason I can think to attack is if they are cruel or unfair. The world has those with different tastes in music and I presume recitations are the same thing. Not everyone who is a critic has to be able to do what they are criticizing be it sports, music, writing or what have you. They can have knowledge on what is good or not whether they can do it (or do it better) or not.

    As far as Gloria is concerned, she is a great lyricist, I believe a strong Christian and definitely intelligent. Her forte too is more poetry and narratives (and the artsy stuff) than singing. Nothing wrong with that, however that doesn’t mean everyone likes it. For the most part I am not in to readings whether it is her, J.D. or George although sometimes they can be effective. I think most songs don’t need them (unless you do a cantata or something)or maybe setting up a song. Writing or even sharing your feelings is fine though I am sure others don’t want to hear that either.

    However, I do think that she needs an outlet for it, and at one time my understanding is that those readings were the most popular part of much of their concerts. So, at least then and I would guess now there are those who are touched by it.

    As far as Bill, my understanding is that he is pretty picky as far as business, but I think that has more to do in wanting to do his best and being a stickler for getting it right. I also understand his mind has a tendency to switch gears and that sometimes makes people think he is rude or ignoring them when he doesn’t mean to.

  84. clyde wrote:

    Bitter JM party of one, your record table at NQC is ready!

  85. niven wrote:

    Those recitations of Gloria have been the cause of me leaving the room since I first heard them in 1972 …I know… she’s a smart, talented women who I respect but thirty five years later, I still can’t abide those recitations…

  86. Michael wrote:

    I was fortunate enough to hear Loren Harris in a rare appearance recently, making a trio appearance with Troy Peach and Ricky Atkinson following an outdoor singing in which TK and McRae was the featured artist.

    He made the comment that he has only sang about four times in the last year, since coming off the road. Regardless, he sounded great.

    They did all of their old Wilburns material, plus Jesus Can at the end on the set. The guys did a nice job.

    Loren sounded as good as ever. His leads were powerful (like on Out of the Dust), and at times, he would move from singing the tenor part to singing a wonderfully-full baritone part on the next song.

    They started with Outside the Gate, with Troy leading most of it before Loren took it going into the chorus.

    Ricky was having to sing the tenor part for most of the evening, though Loren jumped above him on a couple of songs (Resting Place, Jesus Can) in which Ricky sang in more of his natural range.

    Loren is working as church administrator at a church (Valley Forge Free Will Baptist) in Elizabethton, Tennessee. He also has a new solo project, which I purchased but have not had the opportunity to listen to yet. According to information on his CD, Loren is open to booking some solo dates now as well. The church’s web site is

    I am a long-time Loren Harris fan, and I know there are many others out there who also feel that he was an elite singer in the Southern Gospel industry. His voice is simply at that next level.

    I just wanted to let people know what’s going on with one of Southern Gospel’s finest artists to come along in recent years.

  87. ScottHolmann wrote:

    Hey LeadGuy……….What do you have in your craw against the Collingsworth Family? You are the only person on here that seems to want to throw stones at them. Seems like a suspect motivation behind that to me.

    Have you ever performed in the same venue with them? Seen the vast crowds at their product table? Made note of their quality presentation, their passion, and the audience’s very enthusiastic response when they communicate with a crowd? I have and I suspect you have too (I know who you are) and there must be something about that that simply irks you.

    I am very extremely dissappointed in you and the lack of dignity of someone in your position to take pot shots at a “newer” quality-driven performing group which can do nothing but help the entire gospel music industry lift the standard of excellence even higher. Do you think it somehow lifts you to a higher position to tread on someone like The Collingsworth Family that you feel needs to be put in their place in the “pecking” order under your feet and not get the deserved notoriety that they are receiving? I’d check my motivations thoroughly, if I were you.

    The Gaither’s new connection with them seems to be a sore spot for you, it appears.

  88. quartet-man wrote:

    Thanks for the update on Loren. The link would not work, but here it is.
    It looks like Loren also heads up the Junior choir, runs sound, and plays guitar too.

  89. jb wrote:

    We went to hear the Mike Speck trio recently. They sang the first set, 40minutes or so, with a local choir. Is that common with him or what? I felt they must have been having an off night and Faye acted upset or not feeling well. The turn out was really sad. Maybe 200 in a big civic center. The lady who sings with them really has a sweet personality and sweet spirit. I’m sure having the choir behind you shows how his “choir material” can be used. I was just a little disappointed.

  90. thom wrote:

    This past Friday night was my concert with The Dixie Echoes and I was absolutley blown away by them! They are doing it “old school” with just 2 studio mics, 4 great voices, and a piano player. (Bass guitar on some songs). NO STACKS, NO TRACKS, AMEN. It was so refreshing and the crowd ate it up.

    They brought the house down. If you have not been to see them lately - GO!
    They have set the standard high for other quartets to strive for.

    Another thing that impressed me was the fact that less than 24 hours before they arrived at the church their bus had caught fire and burnt up everything on the inside - including their clothes and matching suits! Rather than cancel the date - they drove up to TN from Penscola FL in a motorhome with an A/C that worked less than 1/2 the time. And they stopped and bought new matching suits, shirts, ties, etc so they would project the professional image they are known for. They did not let losing the bus keep them from honoring their commitments. True Integrity.

    I plan to book them again! Check them out if you get a chance.

  91. just me wrote:

    In response to jb (#89), the Specks shtick is to perform with a local choir for most, if not all, of their concert. They have been to my church most every year for the last 6 or 7 years and the choir always sings with them. It seems that most times I’ve seen them, whether at NQC or at our church:

    1. Mike is in bad voice. It is usually scratchy or gravelly.

    2. Faye looks like she isn’t enjoying herself. On stage she puts on a good face, but before and after the concert she doesn’t look happy.

    3. The soprano (currently Stacie) rocks the house.

  92. George304EMM wrote:

    There used to be a group in the late 70’s - mid 80’s from Huntington WV called The Bride of Christ Singers–they even had a couple of national releases…they relocated to Florida after their son passed away. Arms? may be their last name. Has anyone on the street heard of them or have any knowledge of their whereabouts?

  93. Dean Adkins wrote:

    re: post 92

    I can provide a little information on a couple of members of the Bride of Christ Singers.
    Bob Hale is a pastor / evangelist.
    Mark Hale owns Harvest Gospel Studio (see link). He could probably provide more info on the whereabouts of the others.

  94. George304EMM wrote:

    Yeah-know Mark. He has no other information other than they are in Ocala or some place.

  95. leadguy wrote:

    Okay. Time to play a little catch up here:

    To the Gaither’s Cheering Section:
    Hoorah for success. Hoorah for being in a hymnal. Hoorah for having millions of fans clambering their way to the product table. Once you get past the Gaither Glitz, there is not much left. Yes, they have been well liked for quite some time for obvious reasons. Bill is a genius of a businessman. Gloria is a cunning wordsmith and orator. Good for them. However, their success means bull hockey when you look for true passion, obedience to the Spirit, and unrehearsed tears/hand raising/standing. Think of it as a debate between a ministry and a business. I enjoy the Gaither whirlwind as much as the next guy. However, I don’t buy into the Gaither Glitz. Business is business. And theirs is a business.

    ScottHollman of #87, this one’s for you:
    I have no idea who you are. If you honestly do know me, hoorah for me. I’m more popular than I thought. (Maybe I’ll be added to the tour next.)
    You asked what I had lodged in my “craw” about the Collingsworth Family. I am sure they are good people. If you look back to my comment, I said nothing about them personally. I said, “I guess I will have to wait and see if the Collingsworth still spend 15 minutes introducing each child while on the Gaither tour.” Later on, I said the CF were overrated.
    I applaud their success. I have never denied someone the right to make a dime, sing with the Gaither circus, or have a crowd in the auditorium or product table. Congrats to the CF and Gaither for that matter.
    And now… However, the CF doesn’t measure up to my PERSONAL standard for groups of their kind. I have a high standard for family groups. Family groups have always been my favorite delivery for SG music. But, when any family takes the stage in this industry, there is a huge temptation to “praise the kids” more than “praise the Lord.” When Papa C takes us down the never-ending parade of interests, talents, favorite this and thats, grade, grades, age, shoe size, birth weight, favorite color… and so on… I can’t help but be disappointed.
    MaMa C is a talented pianist, no doubt. Nevertheless, there are only so many notes on a piano that someone can play before my ears tune it out. (This doesn’t apply just to Kim, but we’ll save that for another day.)
    Family groups tend to be a little long winded about little Bobbie and Susie, no doubts. In the case of the CF, many promoters are steering away from inviting them back because of their inability to sing more than a handful of songs and introducing the family. I think it is time for Papa C to reevaluate the family’s business. Are they a singing family or a family of introductions and a few songs?
    And as for your “very extreme disappointment” in me, I hope we can mend whatever connection we have over a cup of coffee at NQC. I’ll be behind my table. :)

  96. Stephen wrote:


    Well spoken. I’ll see you at NQC.

    I’ll take a double mocha with whipped cream.

  97. clyde wrote:

    leadguy bitterly wrote about the Gaithers . . . .
    “However, their success means bull hockey when you look for true passion, obedience to the Spirit, and unrehearsed tears/hand raising/standing. Think of it as a debate between a ministry and a business. I enjoy the Gaither whirlwind as much as the next guy. However, I don’t buy into the Gaither Glitz. Business is business. And theirs is a business.”

    Hey Lead Guy - there is a lonely guy sitting by himself at NQC looking for you - JM is his name. Perhaps the two of you could start a perfect group / business together!

  98. CG wrote:

    Avery, did you know you’ve made the Singing News Forum ( as an actually discussed topic? You’re somebody now! Congratulations!

  99. Steve wrote:

    Hmmm… LeadGUY = GUY Penrod?

    Man, it’s sad that I have to say, “just kidding.”

  100. bts wrote:

    leadguy wrote: “However, their success means bull hockey when you look for true passion, obedience to the Spirit, and unrehearsed tears/hand raising/standing. Think of it as a debate between a ministry and a business.”

    no bitterness or rudeness here, however i do disagree with most of what you said about gaithers and especially the CF

    but the point i want to make sure you get from me about what i quoted from you is that if 1 person came to know Christ, IF ONE PERSON CAME TO CHRIST through any song that the gaithers sang during their “circus”, then i would deem that “buisiness” as a successful “ministry” …i personally know a family, who heard a simple line in a gaither written song, that sparked their interest to know more about OUR LORD…they are now in saved and very faithful and active in our church!! praise the Lord! and to think, “the straw that broke the camels back” to get them to accept the saving grace of Jesus Christ, was a line of a giather song!

    don’t tell me the gaithers are not successful in “passion, obedience to the Spirit, and unrehearsed tears/hand raising/standing”…you don’t know what the Lord has done for me and others around the world through their ministry!!

  101. Janice wrote:

    LeadGuy, if only I could be as astute as you are at finding what is wrong with each and every group. I am just a poor soul who is foolish enough to enjoy the music of those who don’t measure up to your standard. I am silly enough to listen to Gloria Gaither’s words and look deep into my own soul to see where I might improve my own walk with the Lord. I do appreciate you pointing out the failings of those who are less than perfect, though. Maybe I can focus on that more the next time.

  102. CG wrote:

    Wow! 100 posts without Young Harmony as a topic!

  103. Michael Davis wrote:

    Hey leadguy, since you will be at NQC behind your table, I would love the opportunity to talk to you. Please tell me your name and booth number so I can spend some time talking to you about the ministry of the Collingsworth Family.

    I am sure you are a person who wants the truth told about everyone in gospel music. I have several corrections to make to your depiction of this talented and much in demand musical family.

    Blessings, to you and your ministry,
    Michael Davis
    Dominion Agency
    (Booking Agent for the CF)

    PS…don’t forget to give all of us your name and booth number at NQC.

  104. GaitherFan wrote:

    bts wrote;’don’t tell me the gaithers are not successful in “passion, obedience to the Spirit, and unrehearsed tears/hand raising/standing”…you don’t know what the Lord has done for me and others around the world through their ministry!!’

    I’ll second that!

  105. Chuck Peters wrote:

    Mr Leadguy.. you have some strong opinions about the Gaithers.. and that’s fine. You apparently have some sort of insight that I don’t. I am just a fan who has gone to a few Homecomings.. and came away feeling blessed, entertained and closer to God.

    I do wish you would be brave enough to put your name with your opinions. It’s real easy to pass judgement in public.. when you hide behind anonymity. Why not post your name.. and your group’s name (since you are leadguy.. I am guessing you have a group ).. and website address,..etc So we can size you up. I might become (or maybe already am).. a big fan.

  106. gc wrote:

    Be hard to defend you leadguy..You dug a big ole’ hole with those comments. You do realize that God can bless those who are doing his work. Bill Gaither has been rewarded for being faithful to his calling…He is not perfect by any means but God has used him to bless and strengthen many people across the world..Get over it…

  107. Janice Kieft wrote:

    I don’t know about anyone else but it sounds to me that “leadguy” is just mad because he isn’t part of the “Gaither-glitz” and anyone that is can’t be very good. Just in general comment, for those of us that live in the wild wooly west, most of us would never have heard about a whole lot of SG artists that the “Gaither-glitz” has brought to our attention.

  108. bts wrote:

    a big “at a boy!!” to michael davis!

  109. RR wrote:


    I am sorry that Gaither hasn’t used your group. Your attitude is called “sour grapes”.

    I, too, would love to know the name of you and your group.

  110. leadguy wrote:

    We all have the ability to like and dislike different groups for different reasons.

    What many seem to be calling for is some type of apology from me for my personal opinions and thoughts. Foolish me! I seemed to be under the impression that one could freely exercise the right to discuss the topic of our choice as related to southern gospel music right here.

    My words are not to convince another reader that you should look down on any group, but to be discerning in your support or liking of a group. My words are solely my opinions that I have developed after a number of years of being involved in this industry. Take what you like and leave the rest.

    It’s a shame we all have to agree on absolutely everything. It’s a shame that a different opinion brings scorn. For those I have offended by my statements, I remember an old saying about a grain of salt… perhaps now is the time to invoke that wise saying.

    As for my name/group/booth #/etc., I suppose you should ask ScottHollman of #87. He seems to know more about me than me.

  111. bts wrote:

    leadguy wrote: “As for my name/group/booth #/etc., I suppose you should ask ScottHollman of #87. He seems to know more about me than me.”

    wow…now THAT’S a load of bull hockey (to put things in your terms)…doin a good job of putting your tail between your legs and runnin away

  112. baritoneguy wrote:

    #102….I honestly was thinking about YH today. Scary. I also was thinking about another “mega group” that came out a couple of years ago that was the best thing to Southern Gospel music since matching leizure suits: the Haire Family. Are they still on the road? Are they still releasing “#1 songs”?

    About the Collingsworth Family. I don’t knwo them personally. I’ve only seen them live once, and that was before all 128 of the children were on stage kickin it with mom-n-pop. I have heard nothing but good things about their character in the industry, and that is more than can be said about many of the family groups of the past. I guess time will tell if success will spoil them also, just as it has some of the fams in the past.

    Gaithers….I kinda agree with leadguy, although I won’t be as harsh with my opinion. I think that the best of the Gaithers’ years are behind them. I still enjoy going to Homecoming events, I think the GVB is a great quartet, and although I’m not a huge fan of Glorias storias, I know that they are blessing somebody and that’s good enough for me, I guess. I’ll just hit FWD on the remote when it comes to her recitations, just like I do when I see Russ Taff, Stephen Hill, or Lynda Randall. I’m not saying they are bad people or performers, just not my cup of tea.

    I will NOT have a booth at NQC. NOBODY on this board knows who I am and even if anybody found out, they would say, “***** who?”. But, if anybody really wants to know who I am, just post your e-mail address and I’ll contact you.

  113. SPD wrote:

    Give a guy a Break! bts! #87 did say that he knew LeadGuy and talked to him like he knew him well! And we do have the right to express our opinions! The problem here is, and has always been with this crowd, that we get offended simply because some one shares a different opinion than our own! Im not speaking for or against the CF, or anybody else in this post, or agreeing with leadguy! I’m just saying yall need to chill and let an opinion be an opinion!

  114. Tom wrote:

    New topic: The Singing Senators

    Kind of interesting that the current issue of Singing News has a picture of the Singing Senators singing at NQC. Larry Craig, the Idaho senator who’s been in the news the last two days, was a part of the group–picture on p. 95.

  115. Janice wrote:

    I really don’t think that anyone is upset because someone has a different opinion. It is the way the opinion is expressed that makes many of us want to rush to the defense of those who are being belittled. It is funny how wide-eyed and he acts when he realizes he has painted himself into a corner.

  116. bts wrote:

    when i sense some sarcasm in a post, (i realize we all read and take things differently than others do) but when i sense sarcasm or rudeness that might ruffle my feathers, it’s my nature to immediately dish it out right back to them without thinking or any hesitation at all…i also realize that is a flaw in my character that i need to work on…so therefore i’ll give him a break and apologize…i admit i was very rude in that last statement…deepest apologies sent to leadguy and spd and any others that might’ve taken offense to my comments

  117. Chuck Peters wrote:

    “Let an opinion be an opinion”.. well.. I think it’s more than just an opinion. I re-read leadguy’s posts.. I think he is caught up in “avery mode”.. “say whatever you want.. about anyone.. and let the chips fall. Who cares if I hurt someone along the way.. they need to get over it.” The difference in Douglas (Averyfineline) is that once his identity was made known.. he continued to publish his assessments of SG people and things. I do appreciate the fact that he has the nerve to continue.. when most people know who he is,. where he works and what he does.

    I think we should “tell it like it is”.. but not at the expense of hurting people.. There are ways to express your honest opinion.. without the disrespectful attitude.

    I would guess that leadguy.. is also a niceguy. I would imagine if we talked in person,.. we could share thoughts.. and although opinions would be the same,.. I think the tone would be quite different.

  118. clyde wrote:

    leadguy wimpered “It’s a shame that a different opinion brings scorn.”

    Awwwww. . . you can dish but not take. Hey man, we all just shared our opinion of your poison post. Comes with the territory if you speak negatively about one of the few positive personalities in Southern Gospel who has integrity.

  119. jb wrote:

    Speaking of Gaither: We purchased the new DVD of hymns yesterday, How Great Thou ARt and Amazing Grace. If we could get our money back, we would. Not because of the sound, but, because of the ones he had doing the singing. I’m hoping he is planning on doing another DVD from the same taping and use all the wonderful talent that was left sitting. I’m sure it is just me, but, when I think of Southern Gospel, I do not think of The Gatlin Bros., The Oak Ridge Boys, and Brenda Lee…. Brenda Lee sings a solo version of Just A Little Talk With Jesus. Try figuring that out. Lots of other comments I could make, but, won’t….

  120. Alan wrote:

    To LeadGuy and others - Sure, we all have our opinions, and some can be strong. One thing that came through in your posts, LG, is that you seem to feel that all things Gaither are entirely for entertainment, commerce, and applause. You’re certainly entitled to that opinion, and there’s more than a kernel of truth, perhaps, in what you said. Even if every word that you wrote is true, many people have been blessed by what they do. I’m one of them. A man can be a marketing genius and a lady can be a wordsmith, yet make no impact in the church. Bill and Gloria are both, and have been a blessing to countless people over many years. And remember - God knows who He can trust and use. But, the main reason I had to jump back in is to point out one inherent weakness of forums like this: it’s really tempting, and perhaps too easy, to write all sorts of opinions when you’re completely anonymous. As Chuck wrote above, Doug has remained as he always was, even once we learned who he is and where he lives. I respect that, even if I don’t share every one of his opinions. I do believe, LeadGuy, that if you included the link to your (or your groups’) website, and we knew who you are, it might have made you refrain - not from stating your opinions, which you’re
    absolutely entitled to - but perhaps from stating them in the way that you did. Am I wrong here? For better or worse, I’ve chosen to let anyone read what I write, and go out on my website to see who I am, and what I’ve been privileged to do for over 30 years. I do know this - doing so has made me a lot more careful when I choose to post here.

  121. Charles Brady wrote:

    Chuck makes a good point above about how we might react differently if we were able to communicate face to face.

    I have learned that often my words in print can be misunderstood. I think it was Zig Ziglar who made the illustration of how easy it is to misunderstand if we are not there to hear the voice inflection of the person doing the writing.

    Here is the example he used:

    ” I ” didn’t say she stole the pocketbook.
    I didn’t “SAY” she stole the pocketbook.
    I didn’t say “SHE” stole the pocketbook.
    I didn’t say she “STOLE” the pocketbook.
    I didn’t say she stole the “POCKETBOOK.”

    Same sentence that can interpeted several different ways…

    I have also noticed that women are far more likely to misunderstand my words in print than men. I think somehow that women process things much differently and often seem to misunderstand and seem to have trouble getting the real message I’m trying to communicate. I think that many women must be looking for the reason of my saying something rather than just taking the words at face value? Any others ever experienced that? I’ve had several flames thrown at me over something that left me scratching my head wondering “how did they get that out of what I wrote?”

  122. Matthew Moore wrote:

    I am starting to put all of this together. Leadguy= very opinionated, Roy Pauly= very opinionated. Leadguy= no substance to support his ideas, Roy Pauly= thinks the Dove Brothers are the greatest quartet around. I am beginning to see the connection. Leadguy= Roy Pauly.

    OT, did anyone else fall on the floor laughing at Sherri Farmers full page ad in the SN which is a closeup of a horse? Someone please explain to me how this stuff goes to print. Can’t the big-wigs that have taken over SN mag cut this stuff out? I mean really, that is your publicity shot for a FULL PAGE AD, a HORSE???!!! It should be required for all sg artists to take a class on marketing.

  123. JM wrote:

    Opinions should be looked upon as thoughts, as seen through the prism of each individual’s experience and exposures. Having observed this particular interchange, I’m in serious doubt that the concept of a blog and any type of Christian endeavor can be considered complementary. My comments regarding BG were based upon my exposure to him and his enterprises back in the late 70’s. While this is long ago and far away, they are still my sincere impressions and evaluations. I suggested that BG on stage is a likeable chap, but that BG in the business world was not likeable. I further suggested that the Homecoming phenomena had been a financial boon to BG. I stand by each of these opinions and expressions, because they find their foundations in my personal experience. I will continue to reflect my experience and my exposures on topics and in discussions which seem appropriate. I won’t be driven out of a blog by some who choose to label others. I would suggest that everyone who is participating in this interchange read the intention of the gentleman who began this forum. It wasn’t established to build up the Church, feed the hungry or get out the vote for the Republicians. If any of those things happen as a result of this forum, it would likely be an unintended consequence. Am I correct, Avery? My opinions re: BG may not be yours, but please, as long as I’m not being intenionally slanderous, allow me my point of view. And as far as the CF is concerned, I wouldn’t know any of them, even if they came up and bit me on the street! May God bless the entire width and breadth and depth of His very diverse family!

  124. TE wrote:

    #122 - I also thought that was a rather poor ad - a waste of $$ - perhaps if we talk about it enough on these blogs the negative publicity will help her out! Neigh….

  125. AD wrote:

    A very poor habit…to “state” your opinion, then try to back down when it’s stated back to you. I think I hear quite a bit of that here. ad

  126. Dean Adkins wrote:

    I don’t have a dog in this fight (Michael Vick probably wishes he could say that) but it sure has been interesting.
    Re Gaither Homecomings: I loved the first one I saw, liked the second, tolerated the third and kept looking at my watch during the last one I attended.
    Gloria’s recitations: if someone likes them - that’s their prerogative, but I never cared for them.

    I love this back and forth - reminds me of my family!

    Dean Adkins

  127. Bryan wrote:

    1. Like the saying goes…Opinions are like armpits…everybody has a couple of them and more often than not they stink.

    2. While the post critiques were not directed at any of mine…I feel compelled to chime in.
    I drank the Kool Aid for a lot of years. I know that sounds cynical and thats because I am on some levels. That being said I still have a certain odd admiration for those that can still “ooh and ahh” over all thing Southern Gospel. I have a love/hate relationship with this music. When I stumbled across “AVERYFINELINE” a few years ago it was a real eye opening experience. At last I discovered that there were those who felt JUST LIKE I DID! That others had the same heretical thoughts and questions as me. The unfortunate reality of the matter is that cynicism is not just something that springs forth on its own. It grows and then festers and thrives only after disapointment and disillusionment have set in. I am not saying I am skeptical of all Southern Gospel artists, businesses etc …just a great deal of them. And I didnt come to this state lightly. I had to be beat in the head in some cases MANY times before I finally came to some unfortunate conclusions.
    I went to the Circus one time and they had this Pre-Circus event where you could actually go down in the rings and interact with the clowns and the elephants and the trapeze artists and such. When I was down there I noticed things I never did sitting up in the stands. It became evident that the Clown costumes were dirty and somewhat worn. The female trapeze artist’s fancy sparkling outfits were missing sequins and rhinestones in places. What it boiled down to is what looked to be pristine and beautiful from the audience was actually quite flawed and dirty when you got up close enough to get a better view.
    I got up close and personal and saw that the shininess was not nearly as shiny as I thought it was. And it took me a while to get back to enjoying the view from the cheap seats. So pardon me if me (or perhaps Lead Guy or Avery or anyone else) when my cynicism and frustration shows in my posts. We may have just gotten home from the Circus.

  128. Elisabeth wrote:

    #122 - yeah, i saw that ad… Thoughts that came to my mind: “Is she selling horses? Is she comparing herself to a horse? What IS this?!” :) btw, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading this thread, smuck & all (is “smuck” a word?). I enjoy the Collingsworth Family, but I agree with Doug that they are often over-orchestrated, and I agree with the post somewhere up there that they don’t sing enough at concerts. We have gone to see them 3 times, and we enjoyed each time. However, I will admit to a bit of “Ok, Phil…we know…now SING” in there. :)

  129. German 3rd wrote:

    Was it B.B. King that penned the words, “The thrill is gone”(?) not sure but anyway I just had some thoughts about NQC. Years ago I would begin to prepare for this event months before, by getting my clothes all in order, my outfits planned, etc. How exciting…. When we pulled in the parking lot the smell of diesel fuel was a warm welcome. (There’s nothing like it.) Try as I might I would try to enter without an artist pass, successful only a few times. I would wait all year to get the new Martin’s CD. Go back to the bus and listen to it all night, so I could sing along when it was their time on the stage. I would stand in line 2 hours to get a pic taken with George and Glenn. I couldn’t wait to see Connie and Kim’s new hairstyle so I could try to be like those classy women, tho never attained. My OMG(gosh) moment is when I saw Sue Dodge in the women’s bathroom. Remember how the big record companies had those great displays? Lights and everything. It felt like Vegas. It was awesome. The diversity was great. Next to Daywind may be Denny and his trick ponies, but it was great. Who can forget I think on row 3 Dr. Matthews, The Singing Surgeon. I remember seeing the Gaither Clan, bigger than life, and wanting to be so in that circle. What great memories. Great Music. What more could you ask for? Is the magic gone. I used to not miss a one. I haven’t been for a couple of years. Maybe I am growing up? Now it is the Pork Tenderloin sandwich that I look forward to.

  130. Ben Harris wrote:

    It seems to me that those who do well get bashed the most. Gaither is a good example. He has become wealthy doing what all of us say we love to do, and that is be a part of the Southern Gospel Industry. To complain now because he has done so very well seems to me a bit of sour grapes. I have been to a few of the Homecoming concerts and enjoyed them. I was invited to set in on a taping he made at Classic Recording in Franklin, TN a few years ago, and spent some time with my old friend Jake Hess who was there singing with the choir. Also, GVB went on right before us at SGMA last year, and I told the guys that everyone else might as well go to the bus for they were terrific singers and they would be a hard act to follow. But you know, we followed them all the same and we are still breathing and alive and well. No scars as far as I can tell. I can tell you this, Jake had nothing but good to say about Bill Gaither, and coming from him, thats a ringing endorsement. I do not begrudge the success they have had, in fact give credit where credit is due. He single handedly pulled SG from the brink of the grave.

    As to the Collingsworth Family, I have not had the opportunity to hear them in person, but I have a dear pastor friend in Lakeland, FL who I trust beyond what words can say, and he dearly loves them, and that speaks volumes for me.

    As to Avery….I personally like the guy a lot. He has convictions and is willing to say and stand behind what he believes. I don’t always agree with him, and then again sometimes I do. Shucks, my wife and I don’t always agree, and I still love her! But his convictions are his own and his no-fear attitude I respect. Good job!

    Now, my last person to defend is Roy Pauley. Yep he is opinionated for sure. But much of what Roy says I agree with. I know I am old fashioned, but then so too is Amazing Grace. Roy loves polished quartet singing and thats about the extent of it. So do I, its all I know. I am not a fan of Bluegrass Gospel, but I truly admire the talents of folks like the Issacs. They are great at what they do, without question. It seems to me that most on this forum are not that different from Roy Pauley, for all of us seem extremely opinionated to me. How is that different from Roy? Are you opinions more valid than his? Or do you envy Roy in that he has a monthly column in the most read journal in SG? I can tell you this, our group has no better friends than Roy and Amy Pauley. Roy has brought us on stage at GOGR several times and he has always been very gracious in the words he chooses, as he is for everyone he introduces. You could do far worse than having Roy as a role model I assure you.

    It seems to me that much of the complaining and bickering seems to stem from “That-should-have-been-me” syndrome. We all get hose feelings from time to time, thats human nature. But, we should be able to combat those feelings and opinions, with a togetherness of purpose for those in that same industry with us. After all this is a very small industry, almost like family. The group I am in work very very hard trying to perfect our craft, and sometimes it is discouraging to see someone of questionable talent get a bigger break than what we personally have seen. But it should not bring us to the point of tearing someone else down, but rather should encourage us to keep pressing on. Soap box retired now.

  131. Tim wrote:

    If the Gaither thing is coming to an end (and I really don’t think that you can stick a fork in it yet), who will fill the void? Or will the millions spend on Gaither products simply disappear from the realms of SGM?

  132. LTR wrote:

    Matthew Moore wrote:

    I am starting to put all of this together. Leadguy= very opinionated, Roy Pauly= very opinionated. Leadguy= no substance to support his ideas, Roy Pauly= thinks the Dove Brothers are the greatest quartet around. I am beginning to see the connection. Leadguy= Roy Pauly.

    Interesting comment, but last time I talked to Roy, he still didn’t have a computer. I wish he did. I have a lot of things I need to say to him!

  133. Charles Brady wrote:

    The horse ad reminds me of a book given to me years ago by a church member. The title was ” Preacher, You’re The Best Pasture We Ever Had.” LOL!!!

    To me this one is tied with the ad on page 101 with Rufus The Talking Dog and the Republican spelling of ” Sweet Potato(e) Pie” in the ad. I think Larry the Cable Guy must have hacked into their computer systems….. LOL!!!

  134. dkd wrote:

    Dean #126. What you just said..ditto.

  135. GaitherFan wrote:

    #131. I agree.

  136. Daniel J. Mount wrote:

    Jumping topics again–but that’s what an open topic is for. The Perry’s new CD is so good that even Doug would be hard pressed to give it a bad rating!

    This is album of the year material, folks. :)

  137. David wrote:

    JoyFM is getting serious about the “new” JoyFM: Not only is Daniel Britt now counting down the days(Daniel, does every promo you cut have to include a phrase in that “filter voice?”), but now Mark Lowry, Ivan Parker, & Doug Anderson are telling us not to miss it!

  138. Janice wrote:

    Bryan, #127 - Yes, I know how you feel about seeing the gown missing sequins. It is disappointing. But in my heart I know that I’m missing quite a few sequins myself. That is disappointing too. I wonder if we are all alike.

  139. DJ wrote:


    I thought the exact same thing when I opened my Singing News and saw that!

  140. Glenn wrote:

    Bottom line is that Bill Gaither’s ministry reaches more people than probably all of the rest of the groups combined. Although I admit that I liked this last homecoming concert the least of any I have attended, I still heard some of the best music I ever hear. I think if all of the homecoming atendees participated in forums such as this, the server couldn’t handle the number of positive comments. With Bill Gaither’s health problems of late, we may get to see what it is like without his influence, and I don’t think we will like it.

  141. RF wrote:

    Wish I could har the new Perry’s album so soon (Daniel’s #136 post). It appears us peons will have to wait until after NQC or whenever it’s released to I-Tunes.

  142. Mike McIlwain wrote:

    Hey, German 3rd, I know the Singing Surgeon, Dr.Matthews. I used to work with him. He sounds a lot like Elvis. Dr. Matthews is not only a great singer, but he’s a great Christian man. Thanks for mentioning him.

  143. Daniel J. Mount wrote:

    RF - #141 — it should be released Tuesday, September 11, if I’m not mistaken.

  144. Jim2 wrote:

    September 11 Street Date titles from Daywind are Crabb Family “Letting Go”, Greater Vision “Everyday People” and New Harvest “New Harvest” which is a Gospel group that won the Daywind talent contest last year or the year before. Perrys street date is not until October 9, with Brian Free releasing on September 25. Just guessing that Perry’s will have some form of the new album to sell at NQC if I understand their website announcement

  145. Daniel J. Mount wrote:

    Jim2, #144–yes, I understand they will have copies at NQC. I’m planning to purchase one there. Even though I was fortunate enough to hear the preview mp3s, I still want to support the group! :)

  146. Phil wrote:

    The Perrys are planning to have the new CDs at their booth for purchase after their Monday night performance at NQC.

  147. Trent wrote:

    Topic change. Will Avery be reporting from NQC this year? I hope so. I always enjoy his reports.

  148. Charlie wrote:

    I love The Perrys, but I’m tired of paying my hard earned $15 for their CDs, just to discover that they are el cheapo “burned” CDs with “homemade/desktop” printing. You’d think Daywind over ALL other SG record companies could put out better quality stuff.

    Maybe they’re pirated, you say? Well, why do they artists have them on their tables? And it ain’t JUST The Perrys, but I’ve gotten more of these from them than any other DW group…

  149. Michael wrote:

    Legacy Five is the most unimpressive group individually that puts out really good solid collectively. I don’t care that much to hear either Scott sing a lead, but they both do an adequate job. When I heard them at their Labor Day Celebration, Fowler sounded like he was in better voice than I’ve heard him at any point in the past couple of years. I was beginning to wonder if he was having voice problems due to his continually having that scratchy sound and very little depth to his voice, but he did a nice job on Sunday. Howard is a quit-witted, dry-humored gentleman whose talents are not show-stopping but underrated. Glenn Dustin continues to get better, and Frank Seamans may be the best tenor in Southern Gospel Music (though I would have to place Anthony Facello and Dan Keeton right up there with him). Seamans just has that punch to his voice, kind of like a Danny Funderburk. He sang a couple verses of an old hymn – The Blood That Stained An Old Rugged Cross – on the spur of the moment and wowed me when he belted into the first verse. He’s for sure a big-time vocalist. And what a wonderful addition is Tim Parton. He is a consummate professional and seemingly a class act. He knows his role and carries it out quite well. No one fills the shoes of a Roger Bennett, but L5 should be thankful to have Parton for sure. I can’t wait to hear their next project with Parton being a part of it.

    The rest of the lineup was surprising unimpressive though. The Isaacs put on a good face but didn’t seem to really connect with the audience, really didn’t seem dying to be there. The audience didn’t really did the Bluegrass either, which was a surprise seeing as it was in Nashville.

    Triumphant was solid but not great. Clayton Inman’s voice is a little too rigid for me, but Scott Inman is a big-timer as well. With Triumphant hitting the road full-time starting next year, he might want to look at moving to an upper-echelon group sometime soon. He may be happy where he is, but his talent could really take a good group to another level. Eric Bennett sings about as pleasing of a bass lead as anybody out there, though he’s not near as low as some. David Sutton is solid. He doesn’t really ring my bell, but he’s quite good.

    The Perrys surprised me in giving one of the most adequate performances I have seen from them in recent memory. I see the Perrys at least eight times a year at various multi-group events and church concerts, and almost every time I see them, they seem to have improved considerably since the last time. I couldn’t say that Sunday though. They were just fine. That may sound silly, but it’s true. Even adequate though, they’re still far better than 90 percent of the artists in the industry.

    In the Perrys defense though, they had been out on the road all weekend, said they were in Texas the night before. Therefore, they may have just been a little tired at the end of the weekend.

    The Celebration events are like mini-NQCs, just held at a nicer venue. It’s a great vacation (I didn’t go there for a vacation; just drove down to catch the show) for individuals wanting to get away for a weekend. The total cost of the tickets and the lodging at Opryland Hotel is a steal, and if you’ve never stayed at Opryland Hotel, it’s incredibly nice (not necessarily the rooms but all that is in and around it). It has to be one of the nicest hotels in the world (not the US but yes, the world). Staying at Opryland Hotel makes you feel like you’ve sort of escaped from the outside world. It’s that big and really enchanting.

  150. Dale Steenhoven wrote:

    I heard Michael Combs and the Kingsmen at Silver Dollar City on Tuesday evening. It was raining lightly, but around 3000 people still braved the weather to enjoy this wonderful evening. Michael was at his best, and only one time asked for more sound on the monitors, in a very kind way. He did mention that you wouldn’t be hearing him with Bill Gaither: “He’s made enough money off of all those other groups.” The Kingsmen still have that great “Kingsmen” sound. What a thrill to hear Ernie’s old song, “Death, Where is thy Victory”, “Saints Will Rise” and “Beautiful Home” again.

  151. Terri wrote:

    Regarding the whereabouts of Rodney Baucom (the old JoyFM), some of you may have seen this, but I somehow missed it when it was posted. I found this on the Singing News website: I was a bit surprised that Rodney would go in this direction. It seemed that SG was what he loved…I guess things change!

  152. David wrote:

    Terri, you make it sound like Rodney’s gone holy hip-hop or something! I’ve spent the last 30 minutes listening to the live feed, & it’s quite good! The “God & Country” format isn’t new, but I like Rodney’s take on it.

  153. CVH wrote:

    Change of topic and a question: has anyone seen Michael English in concert in the last couple of years? I know he’s back out doing dates but not sure what his show is like or what to expect. Any feedback? Thanks.

  154. 2Terri wrote:

    To Terri.
    In reference to Rodney: One of the most sincere Christian men that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting. As far as I’m concerned, the best part of JoyFM left with Rodney. I’ve struggled all week long to listen to the “Morning Joyride” (don’t get me started on that poor choice of a name) on the “new” JoyFM and I just they are a disaster. Yes, we know they have teenagers, dogs, and a 1-year old….but who cares? I wish Rodney the very best with his new career. Maybe those people who tune in for the country artists will be blessed and ministered to by the gospel folks, and give their hearts to Christ. That’s what I think Rodney is trying to accomplish anyway.

  155. cdguy wrote:

    I was at L5’s celebration Sunday night, as well, and I thought ALL the groups did a bang-up job. I had seen all of them in person before, and thought they all sounded as good as ever. In fact, I enjoyed L5 more than most of their previous appearances I’d witnessed.

    While no one could ever take the place of Roger’s personality, Tim is one of the finest pianists on the circuit. And he proved to be no slouch at singing, either.

    This was my first visit to L5’s celebration, so I was really impressed witht he size of the crowd. About 3,000. While I’ve always like them, I had no idea their appeal was wide.

    All-in-all, a great evening of music!

  156. Dale Steenhoven wrote:

    When I heard the Isaacs at Silver Dollar City last week, I thought of Tim Surrett. Anyone know what he’s up to these days?

  157. David wrote:

    Dale, Tim has a solo ministry & plays in a bluegrass group called Balsam Range. His website is

  158. David wrote:

    #155 To 2Terri: Daniel Britt is one of the most knowledgable & most sincere people in SG media. However, I don’t think Daniel has a drive-time personality, he would be better suited for middays or evenings. His interview with Ernie Haase this morning was awkward at best, he asked Ernie if the Thomas Road concert was a Homecoming event(it wasn’t) or not when Ernie’s website has Homecoming dates listed as such. One of the girls asked Ernie if he was a morning person to which Ernie replied he wasn’t, then when Ernie started to talk about his morning routine Daniel mumbled something about coffee & Jesus going together & cut Ernie off & went to a break. That being said, it’s only been three days & I’ll be listening on the way to work tomorrow.

  159. 2Terri wrote:

    David #158. I meant no offense to Daniel Britt at all. I agree that he isn’t a morning drive time person, but he is a top tier talent nonetheless. But the token “mom” and “giggling girl” team has will get under peoples’ skin very quickly.

    I wonder what kind of an inside edge he has with the Gaither organization? If you’ll notice, all of the liners for the “new” JoyFM are done by Gaither people (Lowery, Mote, SSQ, Ivan).

    I didn’t hear the interview with Ernie, but the “live” interview with Mark Lowery was about as real as Jan Crouch’s hair color. By the way, other than the morning team, what else is new about the “new” JoyFM? The hype leading up to it made one think that it was going to be the best thing to happen to radio since the transistor was invented. I’m not that impressed so far.

  160. Rick wrote:

    In re: #153. I’ve seen Michael English twice in the past year or so. Both concerts were at a church in central Georgia. His program was a mixture of Southern Gospel tunes and more contemporary songs from his CDs. The only quibble I had was I wish he had done a little less talking and more singing. Overall, I really enjoyed both nights. His voice was stronger the second time; the first time he was newly recovering from laryngitis.

  161. Terri wrote:

    I agree with both sides of the JoyFm issue. I think Rodney is a fine christian, great radio personality and he was the main part of the old JoyFM. I guess I get a bit leary when I see folks that were once SG music followers beginning to bring in other types of music (country and contemporary). I think SG has a tough time in a lot of markets and folks like Rodney jumping into other genres does not seem to be a positive move for the music. I know he is not the only radio personality, but he was a great one to carry SG to many people. Regarding the new JoyFM, I think it’s okay. Like Terri2 said, there’s not that much new about it. I mainly listen to JoyFM because I grew up in W-S and now live in the Atlanta area and we don’t have a SG radio station here. Maybe this could be one of the neighborhoods that JoyFM reaches next..since Daniel is from Atlanta, well south of Atlanta. I’ll keep listening to JoyFM and wish Rodney all the best!! Oh and speaking of changes at JoyFM, does anyone know what happened to Cindy Parker?

  162. TSE wrote:

    Just a thought….everybody likes to kick SG radio for the poor quality music that is played (and I’m sure some stations deserve a swift kick) but what about Big Daddy NQC?

    Look at all of the groups/artists that are showcasing, etc. Many are the same groups that radio takes the heat for playing. When the BBC makes their documentary what image will the NQC have provided of SGM?

    It seems to me that a large part of the business of SGM is based around taking money from these poor quality groups, promising (expressly or implied) to get airtime then bashing radio when they play the poor quality music the industry offers up.

    If radio stopped playing the trash who would lose $$$? Who has a financial interest in maintaining the status quo? If you follow those Grants Franklins down the rabbit hole who would you find?

    One step further - What about websites and magazines that allow these groups - those that radio takes the heat for playing - to promote themselves on their pages? Huge glossy pictures and article/ads. I guess these groups are like other people’s children - best seen but not heard. It’s okay to take money from these groups to give them a national platform in a magazine or website but radio should not do it for free?

    Look how black the pot is said the kettle……..

  163. where'sleadguy wrote:

    What happened to leadguy? Maybe his group leaders collared him. Since being asked to identify himself he has been harder to find than a democratic fundraiser named Hsu.