The Grammys again

We’ve pretty much hashed out the gospel-music-and-Grammys issue in the past (see here, among other places), so no need to re-cover that ground. Put another way: I don’t have a lot to say about KPNR getting a nomination. My main reaction to the news, coming as it does a year after another Daywind artist who is comparatively obscure (remember, we’re talking the Grammys here) received a Grammy nomination, was that I’m now more and more inclined to believe, contra their protestations, that Daywind has some kind of fairly effectively organized voting bloc within the recording academy. I mean, if you have a more plausible way to explain how a second-tier group in a genre of music that’s more or less invisible in the world of the Grammys’ recording academy can score a nomination, I’d love to hear it. But somehow, I have a hard time believing everyone on the left coast heard KPNR’s new album and was individually compelled, en masse, to vote for it by dint of its artistic power and creative authority.

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  1. Musicscribe Blog » Southern Gospel Grammy Nominations Improving on 08 Dec 2007 at 5:10 pm

    […] Harrison has sparked a discussion regarding this year’s crop of Grammy nominations in the Best Southern, Country or Bluegrass […]


  1. JB wrote:

    This whole thing is fishy to me. Kenny Bishop getting nominated last year, not any of those people know who he or Karen Peck for that matter is. This is NO different than the Lamon Records/Young Harmony Dove nom. HOGWASH!!! Maybe Ed Leonard and Dave Moody need to start a label together. All I can say is WHAT A JOKE!!

  2. TJ wrote:

    I was not surprised Avery. Daywind has utilized their connection to Word/Warner. And honestly Warner should be ashamed. My littles termites tell me-once Ed become a part of the GMA board he immediately started winning the Doves and getting more noms than anyone in history. Knowing the numbers certainly didn’t hurt him.. He then turned his eyes towards the inner workings of the NARAS and Grammy camp. As he built up this unethical pot of brew- he landed his first Grammy nom. From there he continued behind the scenes blocking and holding ballots out till he could swap them with others for favors. It is totally unethical and unfair to the voting rights. I know NARAS would not be happy with this. And no offense but Karen Peck is SO far from ever deserving this kind of recognition. But, thanks to Ed and his numbers racket- heres another part time voice with a full time trophy. It takes about 800 voters to land a nom on a bad year. This year was a short voting year for that category. SAD end results!

  3. David Bruce Murray wrote:

    Hey, at least he’s knocked out the Light Crust Doughboys from this category. It ain’t all bad!

  4. VoteGuard wrote:

    WHAT? Karen Peck and New River are one of the very best out there in Southern Gospel. JB, you have completely lost your mind! What gives us the privilege of having you and all of your expert training on this blog? TJ, I am not a great big fan of Daywind, however no matter who wins what, someone on here will have something to say about it. I know that you feel that KPNR has a part time sound, but what school did you go to that trained your ears so well to cause us to trust your opinion? EXACTLY to both of you. I am reminded of what is said every election, “If you didn’t take the time to vote, then SHUT UP about it.”
    GO KAREN, SUSAN & DEVON! You guys ROCK for JESUS! (By the way, I DID vote!)

  5. Curt wrote:

    Well no matter how they got the nomination, I think that we should pat them or the Daywind label on the back for a job well done in getting them nominated.

    It will surely open up more doors for them to share the gospel. Congratulations Karen Peck and New River.

  6. JB wrote:

    Vote Guard,
    Last time I checked this is a free country and I can voice my opinion and still not go to hell for it not being the same as yours. :-)


    I seriously doubt it will open up any more doors for KP. Lets be realistic. This will be nothing more than a “Hey Ya’ll Im A Grammy nominated artist.”

  7. TJ wrote:

    I dont think Avery or anyone is saying its not a good thing for Daywind or KPNR- Its how they went about it. Block voting is WRONG. Everyone is just saying Daywind has picked up where NARAS got rid of Light Crust Dough Boys and Art Greenhaw- Now Ed has started a HUGE block voting within the awards. Its no different than the whole Young Harmony Dove scam-Dave Moody and Lamon Records pulled off the theif just has different clothes on.

  8. Trent wrote:

    In my opinion, Karen Peck is one of the best female singers in the history of Southern Gospel music. Even as she approaches 50, she still is head and shoulders above the rest of the crowd among female singers in the genre today.

  9. Glenn wrote:

    I have to admit that I not only read this blog for Doug’s perspective, but I also like to see how David Bruce Murray may think about the same subject. This may be the first time I have seen him be flippant, and I loved it.

  10. VoteGuard wrote:

    OK, just first find out this, TJ, you say that there was block voting on this NARAS event. How do you know? Or are you passing your opinion off as fact? Is that the same thing that happened with the Doves and Young Harmony? Opinion or Fact?
    JB, no there isn’t a place that says if you have a different opinion then I do that you will go to hell, thank you for pointing that out. HOWEVER are you spreading rumors or facts? If this is you opinion, then it should that that you THINK there is a scam, not that there is!
    Ok, here is my OPINION of both JB and TJ, you both are stupid, ugly people that was asked to leave the Gospel music industry because of your lifestyles and lack of talent and you enjoy trashing others. *please note that I said this is my opinion of the two of you. No block voting was necessary for me to arrive at this opinion!
    Fact: KPNR & YH have been nominated for the awards and you haven’t!
    Fact: You can’t change either of the nominations.

  11. Norm Graham wrote:

    Dave Bruce Murray may have been a little flippant in his comment but nevertheless there is some seriousness in his post as he has been ranting for years about the Light Crust Doughboys regularly getting nominated for a grammy.

  12. Daniel J. Mount wrote:

    Glenn, you should visit the Singing News forums a little more frequently. Probably at least one of every five comments DBM posts there are funny. :)

  13. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    Southern gospel music community is doing it again.
    Killing themselves because their favorite didn’t reach the higher level.
    Can’t we all just enjoy the ride together?

  14. Oldtimer wrote:

    I will admit that I am not sure about the substance of this discussion - Grammys and NARAS and such are beyond the scope of things on which I can contribute to a discussion. But there has been one topic mentioned in this thread on which I can contribute because I have substantial knowledge of the subject and that is Ed Leonard. I am very disappointed to see he is being somewhat disparaged by people who simply do not know him. My group was a Daywind artist for some years in the 90s and I can tell you without doubt or hesitation that Ed (and Dottie too for that matter) are not only quaity people, they are GREAT business people who only operate with the highest standards of intergrity and expect their artists and associates to do the same. Talk about methods if you like, even reference certain questionable outcomes if you must. But if you are in any way implying that Ed is somehow shady or under the board in the way he does his business you are simply giving testimony to your ignorance on the subject.

  15. David Bruce Murray wrote:

    For my more serious analysis of the topic, see my most recent blog post. Thanks for reading!

  16. Payton wrote:

    It does seem to appear that Daywind has the magic formula with the NARAS folks. Like #7 said, it really isn’t any different than YH doing it with the Dove Awards. It’s pretty obvious when something is THAT fishy. I mean I love KP&NR, and Karen’s voice. But honestly, I was totally not a fan of this record, nor did I think it was even CLOSE to Grammy material. I’m not really a fan of Bubba Smith’s productions though, but to each his own. If we all felt the same way about everything, what a boring world this would be! Right?

  17. Norm Graham wrote:

    Grammy awards have been a joke at times in all fields of music not just gospel. A good read is Henry Schipper’s book “Broken Record.” He explains how in 1958 a group of record executives, who were alarmed by the threat rock music posed to “quality pop” started the awards. Of course, the voters generally ignored seminal records by the Stones, Marvin Gaye, Springsteen, Coltrane, Haggard and others. Intead winners included folks such as Toto, Christopher Cross, New Vaudeville Band and Milli Vanilli. The Beatles once lost to the Anita Kerr Singers. I’m not suggesting that there have not been deserving winners of Grammies but like most award shows there are other factors at work besides artistry and excellence.

  18. curious wrote:

    Curious, has anyone seen the KPNR AND YH billboards? I seen one in Chattanooga, Nashville and another in Pigeon Forge. A friend of mine said there was one in Louisville of the both of them. What is that all about? Billboards bring awards?

  19. Shadie wrote:

    Billboards don’t equal awards, it just takes money to be able to afford both.

  20. Grigs wrote:

    I will not stand by and see Toto and the Anita Kerr Singers besmirched by Norm Graham!

    LOL…just kiddin’. Congrats KP&NR.

  21. Stace wrote:

    I don’t know much about the Grammy voting process, but I do know KP&NR and they are not second tier by any stretch of the word. There’s a lot of miles behind that one “Grammy” nomination just let them enjoy it!

  22. Dexter wrote:

    Two Words…WHO CARES??!

  23. cdguy wrote:

    Oldtimer: I agree whole heartedly with your kind comments about Ed and Dottie. They, and the rest of the Daywind staff, are class acts. When it comes to nominations and awards, they come up on top because they know how to pick artists and producers. Do they know how to work radio? Obviously. Do they have clout in the industry, Definitely. Do they abuse it? I don’t see it, and I’m close enough to know. They are some of the most ethical people I’ve been around in the industry.

    Now, let’s think about the accusation others have made, that Daywind leveraged a Grammy nomination for Kenny Bishop. Who really thinks they would have used that leverage for Kenny, instead of some of their top-tier artists. I know if I were going to do something underhanded, I’d like to think I’d be smart enough to make it believable. Perrys, Crabb Family, Greater Vision, et al, would have made more sense.

    Ed and Dottie are smart business people. They would not have built their business to where they are, otherwise. They have a heart for the Lord, and for their people. I don’t see them doing anything illegal, immoral, or unethical. But frankly, there are others in this industry I can’t say that about. I’ve worked with some of the biggest and best. Not everyone seems to hold themselves to the standards many on this blog appear to hold. Daywind is one company that does.

  24. SM wrote:

    I’m with Dexter. Why talk about the Grammys when we can discuss the Eddie Awards?!

    And they say there’s too many meaningless awards in southern gospel.

  25. wackythinker wrote:

    How many industry folks on the left coast do you think ever heard of the Kenny & Amanda Smith Band? I’m a big follower of s/g from the southeast, and I’ve never heard of them until now.

    Most of the nominations come from people who work within the particular category, not from the population in general, nor even the industry at large.

    So, narrowing it down to people who work within the “southern, country, or bluegrass gospel” field, who would you think has NOT had opportunity to hear KPNR’s newest album, or not heard at least a song or two? And even if you don’t think it’s the BEST “southern, country, or bluegrass gospel album” this year, apparently enough industry folks thought it was enough better than most of the others, that it got voted into the top 5.

  26. cynical one wrote:

    If voting only had to do with who’s heard the recordings, the Grammy’s would be hardpressed to find 5 nominees in this category. While I don’t always agree with the award results, I think there are some unfair accusations floating around here.

  27. brenda wrote:

    Ed has to do something, it has been a few bad months for him. Crabbs are gone, Mike Bowling is gone, McRaes are gone, Triumphant is gone, is Greater Vision still there? Most of the employees that made the label work are gone. I think Norman is the last man standing from the crew that actually saw sales and success. Ed is a really nice guy but he has had a streak of bad luck. I hope it is over for him soon. But with sales numbers looking pretty gloomy and downloads edging out the “mom and pop” music buyer, I tend to think that recovery might be difficult.

    However, I guess they paid their NARAS dues so they can still vote for a Grammy nomination. Good for Karen!

    I know Daywind misses the sales volume of The Crabb Family and Gold City. They lost a great deal when they lost the Crabb Family.

  28. Rod wrote:

    The fact is…They didn’t EARN it.

  29. Derek wrote:

    Block voting or not, it could have been much worse than KP&NR! At least it is a SG group we have heard of, and who puts out decent material who got the nomination. Of course, like it has already been said, I’m not sure what it means other than bragging rights. I seriously doubt promoters will race to book them any faster because of this nomination. At least it’s SG, not another warmed-over country song (oops I forgot we are supposed to call it “Positive”).

  30. Tim wrote:

    I have heard all the nominees and they are good. The one thing about the recording from Kenny and Amanda Smith is, the musicians that you hear on the recording are the ones that actually play live during their shows which should be considered but I doubt it will. I miss the live bands in Southern Gospel.

  31. cdguy wrote:

    Brenda, I’m not sure where you get your info, but not all the names you mentioned as being “gone” from Daywind are gone at all. And from what I hear, not all the ones who are gone will be missed much.

    Any label who lasts 20 years or more, as Daywind has, sees many changes in artist lineups and employees. I don’t see Daywind as any different in that area. It doesn’t necessarily mean any. That’s just life in the biz.

    As has been insinuated earlier by another poster, if you’re not happy with the process or the outcome, it’s probably because you were not involved. If you want to see things change, GET INVOLVED.

    Kinda like a lot of other areas in life, huh?

  32. Music chick wrote:

    Regarding the Grammys, if not Karen Peck, then someone else. There is a Southern, Country, Bluegrass Gospel category. Would you rather see it dominated by country music singers that happened to do a gospel album, or by people who legitimately do this daily as a ministry and are recognized in gospel music? And wouldn’t you rather it be someone like KP&R who has a quality reputation in SG?

  33. brenda wrote:

    I don’t know who is missed and who is not. I don’t know who left and who was asked to leave. But I do have access to sales numbers and that was my point. I am confident that the owner of Daywind is there to make a profit. The current roster could not be compared to the former roster if sales numbers are the discussion. That WAS my point, not
    who liked who or who was holding a grudge??? I’m not privy to all of that and I don’t think that should be a topic that is publicly discussed.
    I am not unhappy with the outcome of the Karen Peck nomination. I think she is very nice. I am sure that block voting created the nomination, certainly not sales or career growth. As I said earlier, good for Karen.

    The point I was making is that SALES are DOWN, Sometimes we are led to believe that these nominations signify growth and career highs. They don’t.

    A career high is recording a “God On The Mountan” or “Midnight Cry” or “Through The Fire” and selling a gazillion copies of it. It would seem to an onlooker that Karen’s career high may have been recording and singling “Four Days Late.” The new Daywind album certainly did not rival that recording.

    For the record. I think most people obviously like Karen Peck. The point I make is nominations in the past that correlate with a successful year (sales and growth) are believable. GVB, Cathedrals, even Crabbs, but last year and this year it feels as if the nomination came from a drawing. I think most people will agree.

    The answer is for more people to join NARAS and vote!! Legitimize this with some truth.

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