Comments on: Open Thread http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/ Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music Wed, 23 May 2012 11:08:57 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: marthafines http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-1072004 marthafines Fri, 25 Dec 2009 08:43:19 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-1072004 Merry Christmas to all... and to all a good night. Merry Christmas to all… and to all a good night.

]]> By: Buddy Mullins http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-411530 Buddy Mullins Wed, 30 Apr 2008 04:25:22 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-411530 I would just like to say something about Paul Lancaster having spent over twenty years of musical life together I believe I actually have firm ground to stand on. This gentleman is one of the most dedicated persons one could have in a group. He never seeks the spotlight he always feels at home in the support role. Making whoever he sings with sound better than they already are. He should never be made to shoulder the burden of why groups come to an end. As I have been a part of a couple of these ventures one lasting twelve years with five out of the six members staying in tact the whole twelve year run and the other a short year and a half for Paul when God began to move on my heart about taking a position as worship leader at a church both Paul and Channing Eleton prayed with me about this possible move. So if there was a cause to the ending of Everyday Driven that would fall squarely on me. I know it's fun to speculate why things happen but when statements are made that cut into the character of another person you don't realize how hurtful it becomes. You can be assured that I know the man Paul Lancaster. He loves his wife and family more than breath and has but one desire and that is to know God deeply and to use his gift to bring maximum glory to God the Father. Of that I know. I would just like to say something about Paul Lancaster having spent over twenty years of musical life together I believe I actually have firm ground to stand on. This gentleman is one of the most dedicated persons one could have in a group. He never seeks the spotlight he always feels at home in the support role. Making whoever he sings with sound better than they already are. He should never be made to shoulder the burden of why groups come to an end. As I have been a part of a couple of these ventures one lasting twelve years with five out of the six members staying in tact the whole twelve year run and the other a short year and a half for Paul when God began to move on my heart about taking a position as worship leader at a church both Paul and Channing Eleton prayed with me about this possible move. So if there was a cause to the ending of Everyday Driven that would fall squarely on me. I know it’s fun to speculate why things happen but when statements are made that cut into the character of another person you don’t realize how hurtful it becomes. You can be assured that I know the man Paul Lancaster. He loves his wife and family more than breath and has but one desire and that is to know God deeply and to use his gift to bring maximum glory to God the Father. Of that I know.

]]> By: Tim Nichols http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-389568 Tim Nichols Wed, 16 Apr 2008 03:36:38 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-389568 Ben, My comment (#105) about you being "taught well by R. M." was (of course) tongue in cheek! God bless ya, brother! Ben,
My comment (#105) about you being “taught well by R. M.” was (of course) tongue in cheek! God bless ya, brother!

]]> By: Ben Harris http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386838 Ben Harris Mon, 14 Apr 2008 16:26:36 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386838 Hey Tim, not sure about "Ronnie teaching me well". Within those circles I have been accused of creating a monster. I taught Ronnie how to do vocal comps and get the best performance from any number of source vocal tracks. Many blame me for the extra work that created. He did teach me a lot about being very time sensitive and about mixing for clarity. So I guess we both learned in the 14 year process. Hey Tim, not sure about “Ronnie teaching me well”. Within those circles I have been accused of creating a monster. I taught Ronnie how to do vocal comps and get the best performance from any number of source vocal tracks. Many blame me for the extra work that created. He did teach me a lot about being very time sensitive and about mixing for clarity. So I guess we both learned in the 14 year process.

]]> By: Brian http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386755 Brian Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:19:48 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386755 By the way, I have never had an award named after me...kinda cool. By the way, I have never had an award named after me…kinda cool.

]]> By: Brian http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386749 Brian Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:11:34 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386749 John Wrote: "There was more mistique and an aura of speciality when the booths at NQC were real, bonafide, full-time, national performers. The bar is so low now, that the Wauhobs could be a serious award contender with a new release! The whole flea-market, medicine show mentality has cheapened and severely watered down the appeal. The hall is filled with folks paying money they should have spent on production instead of booth space. But, with thousands of dollars made by the NQC . . . the math is just too appealing, I guess." Actually John, on this point, I could not agree more. But to me this is completely different topic. I do think that everybodys brothers, cousins, great niece that sang "Jesus Loves Me" at the age of three or the four guys from Church that someone told them they sound great having a booth and going "full time" hurts the real, bonifide, full time Southern Gospel Artists. There is no question about it because that group goes in before the "real" group for less money and stinks the place up. Then the "real" group does not stand a chance of getting in there because, "the last group we had in here, well they were somewhat of a dissapointment." So don't bow out so soon, we may agree more than you think. I just don't think the resolution to any issue is to throw money at it. To call a project less than good just because it didn't cost a fortune..., well lets agree to listen to it first and ask how much you spent second. John Wrote: “There was more mistique and an aura of speciality when the booths at NQC were real, bonafide, full-time, national performers. The bar is so low now, that the Wauhobs could be a serious award contender with a new release! The whole flea-market, medicine show mentality has cheapened and severely watered down the appeal. The hall is filled with folks paying money they should have spent on production instead of booth space. But, with thousands of dollars made by the NQC . . . the math is just too appealing, I guess.”

Actually John, on this point, I could not agree more. But to me this is completely different topic. I do think that everybodys brothers, cousins, great niece that sang “Jesus Loves Me” at the age of three or the four guys from Church that someone told them they sound great having a booth and going “full time” hurts the real, bonifide, full time Southern Gospel Artists. There is no question about it because that group goes in before the “real” group for less money and stinks the place up. Then the “real” group does not stand a chance of getting in there because, “the last group we had in here, well they were somewhat of a dissapointment.”
So don’t bow out so soon, we may agree more than you think. I just don’t think the resolution to any issue is to throw money at it. To call a project less than good just because it didn’t cost a fortune…, well lets agree to listen to it first and ask how much you spent second.

]]> By: john masters http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386664 john masters Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:19:18 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386664 #107 Kyle Thanks for those words. I think the genre was better when it was just too expensive for hundreds of groups to release projects. There was more mistique and an aura of speciality when the booths at NQC were real, bonafide, full-time, national performers. The bar is so low now, that the Wauhobs could be a serious award contender with a new release! The whole flea-market, medicine show mentality has cheapened and severely watered down the appeal. The hall is filled with folks paying money they should have spent on production instead of booth space. But, with thousands of dollars made by the NQC . . . the math is just too appealing, I guess. The situation is not far from the bad joke I once heard about a big storm coming through a town that did $15,000 worth of improvements! I will bow out gracefully on the subject, and give the naysayers the last work! #107 Kyle
Thanks for those words. I think the genre was better when it was just too expensive for hundreds of groups to release projects. There was more mistique and an aura of speciality when the booths at NQC were real, bonafide, full-time, national performers. The bar is so low now, that the Wauhobs could be a serious award contender with a new release! The whole flea-market, medicine show mentality has cheapened and severely watered down the appeal. The hall is filled with folks paying money they should have spent on production instead of booth space. But, with thousands of dollars made by the NQC . . . the math is just too appealing, I guess.

The situation is not far from the bad joke I once heard about a big storm coming through a town that did $15,000 worth of improvements!

I will bow out gracefully on the subject, and give the naysayers the last work!

]]> By: Kyle http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386557 Kyle Mon, 14 Apr 2008 13:00:33 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-386557 John, I am not disagreeing with you on the price of projects. If I have to hear one more drum machine or sythesized strings project, I think I'll puke. My point is that it is possible to make a GOOD project on a budget, but it takes the talent to do so. It is a rarity, but still a possibility. John, I am not disagreeing with you on the price of projects. If I have to hear one more drum machine or sythesized strings project, I think I’ll puke. My point is that it is possible to make a GOOD project on a budget, but it takes the talent to do so. It is a rarity, but still a possibility.

]]> By: Musicscribe Blog » Benefits Of Umbrella Classifications Despite Differences Between Sub-Genres http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-385923 Musicscribe Blog » Benefits Of Umbrella Classifications Despite Differences Between Sub-Genres Mon, 14 Apr 2008 04:10:40 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-385923 [...] at Doug Harrison’s blog, Brittni asks: “…does it hurt or help the sub-genres by blanketing them with the name Southern [...] […] at Doug Harrison’s blog, Brittni asks: “…does it hurt or help the sub-genres by blanketing them with the name Southern […]

]]> By: john masters http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-385648 john masters Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:55:00 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-385648 Okay . . . I give. Everybody, go make your 15K projects. I will send a request to the Singing News to add an award category. Should it be called the "Benny" the "Brian" or the "Wackythinker" award for best project at half the price of a decent recording? Non Profit groups only! Okay . . . I give.
Everybody, go make your 15K projects. I will send a request to the Singing News to add an award category. Should it be called the “Benny” the “Brian” or the “Wackythinker” award for best project at half the price of a decent recording?

Non Profit groups only!

]]> By: Tim Nichols http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382928 Tim Nichols Sat, 12 Apr 2008 06:34:26 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382928 Ben Harris (#101), I've been hoping I'd see a comment from you...knew you'd have some good input on the topic! Great post. Looks like Ronnie taught you well...! : ) After all, "Nobody Likes 'Bad' Songs"... Ben Harris (#101), I’ve been hoping I’d see a comment from you…knew you’d have some good input on the topic! Great post. Looks like Ronnie taught you well…! : )

After all, “Nobody Likes ‘Bad’ Songs”…

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382599 quartet-man Sat, 12 Apr 2008 01:16:23 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382599 If anyone doubts Ben Harris #101, he has a lot of exerience in the studio with Ronnie Milsap among others. If anyone doubts Ben Harris #101, he has a lot of exerience in the studio with Ronnie Milsap among others.

]]> By: wackythinker http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382152 wackythinker Fri, 11 Apr 2008 20:16:35 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382152 CLN & Brian -- I think you're both absolutely right. Offerings haven't gotten better over the last 20+ years, and most of the groups are as horribly in debt as the rest of the general population. Now, part of the debt problem, IMHO, is because (like the general public) artist-types don't know how to budget. A few live a little too high-off-the-hog when things are good, then don't have anything socked away for the slow times. They travel in new busses (sometime multiple busses), take everybody's families and their brothers on the road, and don't work smart. They go into the studio (as someone else suggested) spending money for rehearsal time (could have been done at home in the basement or family room). Some Christian artists think that, just because pop and country artists write/rehearse in the studio at $250/hr or more, they should do that, too. If Christian artists (CCM, s/g, whatever) were selling as many cd's as mainstream, it might be ok, but paying studio time for writing and reheasing really doesn't make sense in our bidness. CLN & Brian — I think you’re both absolutely right. Offerings haven’t gotten better over the last 20+ years, and most of the groups are as horribly in debt as the rest of the general population.

Now, part of the debt problem, IMHO, is because (like the general public) artist-types don’t know how to budget. A few live a little too high-off-the-hog when things are good, then don’t have anything socked away for the slow times. They travel in new busses (sometime multiple busses), take everybody’s families and their brothers on the road, and don’t work smart. They go into the studio (as someone else suggested) spending money for rehearsal time (could have been done at home in the basement or family room).

Some Christian artists think that, just because pop and country artists write/rehearse in the studio at $250/hr or more, they should do that, too. If Christian artists (CCM, s/g, whatever) were selling as many cd’s as mainstream, it might be ok, but paying studio time for writing and reheasing really doesn’t make sense in our bidness.

]]> By: jb http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382151 jb Fri, 11 Apr 2008 19:48:46 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382151 Brian, #99. Very well said. Brian, #99. Very well said.

]]> By: Ben Harris http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382052 Ben Harris Fri, 11 Apr 2008 18:09:53 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/04/open-thread-8/#comment-382052 I do a handful of complete projects per year and I can guarantee EVERYONE, I can get a band of 5-6 major label session players, strings by Milton Smith or Jason Webb, vocals and 1000 retail ready CD's for under $15,000.00, and most of time, a lot under $15,000.00. I can also guarantee that the finished mix will stand with ANY gospel or rock record on the planet, or at least the tracks and mix will. I cannot make singers who can't sing sound like Celine Deon. Our project that we did last year, and nominated for the best traditional recording of 2007 was far under that figure. It can be done, but now by the less than desirable of our genre who only want to do it down and dirty and take the money and run. My only requirement is give me the time to mix and master properly. No one anywhere or anytime can mix a complete project in one or two days and have it sound worth a flip. It takes me weeks to mix an entire project, and I won't let it go until it is right. I do a handful of complete projects per year and I can guarantee EVERYONE, I can get a band of 5-6 major label session players, strings by Milton Smith or Jason Webb, vocals and 1000 retail ready CD’s for under $15,000.00, and most of time, a lot under $15,000.00. I can also guarantee that the finished mix will stand with ANY gospel or rock record on the planet, or at least the tracks and mix will. I cannot make singers who can’t sing sound like Celine Deon. Our project that we did last year, and nominated for the best traditional recording of 2007 was far under that figure. It can be done, but now by the less than desirable of our genre who only want to do it down and dirty and take the money and run. My only requirement is give me the time to mix and master properly. No one anywhere or anytime can mix a complete project in one or two days and have it sound worth a flip. It takes me weeks to mix an entire project, and I won’t let it go until it is right.

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