Comments on: The Power & Pathos of the Pentatonic scale http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/ Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music and culture Sun, 23 Nov 2008 00:16:14 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: Mark Rhoads http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-400418 Mark Rhoads Tue, 22 Apr 2008 15:54:32 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-400418 I posted the following on David Murray's blog. It's pertinent for this conversation as well: We love to hear romanticized and often fabricated stories of how hymns and tunes came into being. Mr. Phipps’ “yarn” fits this description precisely. Yarns about origins make us feel good, but our greatest source of genuine feeling should the words of this hymn which contain the truth of the Gospel. In reality the origin of most hymns and tunes is rather mundane. “Amazing Grace” was one of hundreds of hymns (he only wrote the words) Newton wrote and published in Olney Hymns 1779. It was barely known in England until the mid 20th century. From the early 19th and well into the 20th century American revivalists found it useful and sang it to a number of different tunes until we finally settle on the now familiar tune called NEW BRITAIN. David has referred to my website which documents some of the story. Here’s the home page http://markrhoads.com/amazingsite/index.htm I posted the following on David Murray’s blog. It’s pertinent for this conversation as well:

We love to hear romanticized and often fabricated stories of how hymns and tunes came into being. Mr. Phipps’ “yarn” fits this description precisely. Yarns about origins make us feel good, but our greatest source of genuine feeling should the words of this hymn which contain the truth of the Gospel.

In reality the origin of most hymns and tunes is rather mundane. “Amazing Grace” was one of hundreds of hymns (he only wrote the words) Newton wrote and published in Olney Hymns 1779. It was barely known in England until the mid 20th century. From the early 19th and well into the 20th century American revivalists found it useful and sang it to a number of different tunes until we finally settle on the now familiar tune called NEW BRITAIN. David has referred to my website which documents some of the story. Here’s the home page

http://markrhoads.com/amazingsite/index.htm

]]> By: David Bruce Murray http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-400359 David Bruce Murray Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:33:46 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-400359 The entire point of his story is tied to John Newton hearing a slave sing a melody to which he set the words of "Amazing Grace." That goes beyond "adding color." (I'm ignoring the racial undertones of that statement.) The entire point of his story is tied to John Newton hearing a slave sing a melody to which he set the words of “Amazing Grace.”

That goes beyond “adding color.”

(I’m ignoring the racial undertones of that statement.)

]]> By: C.W. G. http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-399637 C.W. G. Tue, 22 Apr 2008 04:29:35 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-399637 I say, give the guy a break - he didn't say that much that would indicate that he was trying to dupe anyone - and sometime to make a true story interesting in the telling , you have to add some color - and I don't think anyone could have done it better. I say, give the guy a break - he didn’t say that much that would indicate that he was trying to dupe anyone - and sometime to make a true story interesting in the telling , you have to add some color - and I don’t think anyone could have done it better.

]]> By: David Bruce Murray http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-399026 David Bruce Murray Mon, 21 Apr 2008 20:40:09 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-399026 irishlad, Yes, you have to watch out for those typos when you're exposing fiction posing as fact. People will dismiss your efforts as meaningless if one letter is out of place. irishlad,
Yes, you have to watch out for those typos when you’re exposing fiction posing as fact. People will dismiss your efforts as meaningless if one letter is out of place.

]]> By: irishlad http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-398792 irishlad Mon, 21 Apr 2008 17:25:40 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-398792 #2 histronic should have read histrionic. Sorry. #2 histronic should have read histrionic. Sorry.

]]> By: irishlad http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-398763 irishlad Mon, 21 Apr 2008 16:39:52 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-398763 I remember watching Mr Phipps' histronic performance-worthy of a golden globe at least- when the video was released and thinking to myself how ott it was but hey, 10/10 for a superb master class in theatrical drama. I remember watching Mr Phipps’ histronic performance-worthy of a golden globe at least- when the video was released and thinking to myself how ott it was but hey, 10/10 for a superb master class in theatrical drama.

]]> By: Musicscribe Blog » An “Amazing” Yarn! http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-398740 Musicscribe Blog » An “Amazing” Yarn! Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:22:57 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-398740 [...] copying and pasting a response I made to a recent Doug Harrison post. Doug ran across the “too good not to pass along” YouTube video of Wentley Phipps [...] […] copying and pasting a response I made to a recent Doug Harrison post. Doug ran across the “too good not to pass along” YouTube video of Wentley Phipps […]

]]> By: David Bruce Murray http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-398719 David Bruce Murray Mon, 21 Apr 2008 15:03:21 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/04/21/the-power-pathos-of-the-pentatonic-scale/#comment-398719 John Newton was converted to Christianity in 1748, when he gave up his slave trading. The lyrics to "Amazing Grace" were written in 1772...24 years later. John Newton died in 1807. The tune (New Brittain) was first associated with the lyrics to "Amazing Grace" in the 1830s in an American tune book. For more info, see: http://www.markrhoads.com/amazingsite/TunePages/NewBritain.htm When you consider that short of using a time machine, John Newton wasn't alive to heard his lyrics sung to the tune we now associate with "Amazing Grace," it's pretty obvious that there is no history to back up Phipps' yarn. At best, Phipps himself was duped and passed the story along out of ignorance. At worst, he made it up whole cloth and tried to dupe the rest of us. He tells a good story, but it's the sort of story that belongs on Snopes.com. As a matter of fact, there is an "Amazing Grace" article on Snopes.com with some good background information...though it doesn't address the Phipps fable directly. http://www.snopes.com/religion/amazing.asp Another aspect of Phipps' tale that is humorous is his attempt to associate a single race with the pentatonic scale. How convenient that on the piano the notes happen to be black! The fact of the matter is that the pentatonic scale is commonly used in many forms of folk music...be it Asian, white or black based folk music. It's a universally accepted musical scale. John Newton was converted to Christianity in 1748, when he gave up his slave trading. The lyrics to “Amazing Grace” were written in 1772…24 years later. John Newton died in 1807. The tune (New Brittain) was first associated with the lyrics to “Amazing Grace” in the 1830s in an American tune book.

For more info, see:
http://www.markrhoads.com/amazingsite/TunePages/NewBritain.htm

When you consider that short of using a time machine, John Newton wasn’t alive to heard his lyrics sung to the tune we now associate with “Amazing Grace,” it’s pretty obvious that there is no history to back up Phipps’ yarn. At best, Phipps himself was duped and passed the story along out of ignorance. At worst, he made it up whole cloth and tried to dupe the rest of us. He tells a good story, but it’s the sort of story that belongs on Snopes.com.

As a matter of fact, there is an “Amazing Grace” article on Snopes.com with some good background information…though it doesn’t address the Phipps fable directly.
http://www.snopes.com/religion/amazing.asp

Another aspect of Phipps’ tale that is humorous is his attempt to associate a single race with the pentatonic scale. How convenient that on the piano the notes happen to be black! The fact of the matter is that the pentatonic scale is commonly used in many forms of folk music…be it Asian, white or black based folk music. It’s a universally accepted musical scale.

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