Open thread

I’ll be away for a few days so here’s your chance to take the place over, though lately I have the feeling I’m just being allowed the illusion of control and the inmates are really running the asylum. No matter, now may be a good time to do a bit of housekeeping.

David Bruce Murray is about to mark his millioneth page view (congrats to him, and go over there to help him hit the mark sooner), which reminds me I haven’t done a traffic update in a while. The short answer: up, up, and up. The slightly longer answer is that we’re edging upward of 20,000 hits a day on a regular basis, which translates on the high end to 12,000-15,000 page views daily (and reliably 11,000 per day). If current trends hold, we’ll hit 1,000,000 page views in 2008 by mid June and easily surpass 2,000,000 by the end of the year. Of course I continue to be grateful. It’s all chump change by Big Blogging standards, but it’s pretty much entirely homegrown, gimmick-free success (or whatever my detractors would call it … virtual carcinogen? interweb pathogen? bunch of crap? sin?).

Less grandiosely, it finally occurred to me to change the time stamp feature so that my posts are no longer associated with UTC, which is the WordPress default. From the $2-bill post onward, all entries and comments will (at least they SHOULD) carry EST timestamps, reflecting the time zone of origin. Unless you know a way to retroactively apply this change, all previous posts retain their original UTC time label.

Finally, there may or may not be a review this week. Depends on how long I have to be gone. But judging by last week’s pyrotechnics, we might all be able to use some time between rounds.

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  1. Ben Harris wrote:

    My old Buddy Jonathan does have a way with words! I agree with him 100%. But he still doesn’t know how to play in the key of B. :)

  2. Daniel J. Mount wrote:

    Well, I don’t know if my comment will start the discussion or not, but here goes…

    Count me in the camp of those who think Jacob Kitson’s voice and enthusiasm will be great additions to Greater Vision’s live concerts.

  3. quartet-man wrote:

    #1 To “B” or not to “B” that is the question.

  4. Andrew S. wrote:

    Amen,brother Daniel!! I can’t wait to hear Jacob with GV. I plan to see them in the end of June soooo they might have him traveling to get the hang of it (traveling with the guys)..

  5. Aaron Swain wrote:

    I second that.

  6. SGFAN65 wrote:

    Suggestions for Albums Reviews:

    Gaither Vocal Band New CD - Lovin Life -

    (seems to me that with Bill Gaither being the song writer he is, and the connections he has with others - that he would not have to continue to “re-record” the same songs over and over - it seems he does this often when he gets new personnel - This new project left me VERY disappointed in the song selection considering the current talent he has in group- Would love to hear your thoughts in a review !)

    Lordsong - Their just “Piano and Vocal” project just recently released.

    (In my opinion - quality talent to say the least - my only critique would be that it would not have hurt to add a bass guitar or upright bass - just to make it a little fuller accompaniment - but Stan is awesome nonetheless.
    They are AWESOME with all of the sisters together again !

    In regards to Memorial Funds set up for remembering Dottie and also now for The others invovled in accident.

    You have to realize that Larry Ferguson’s livelihood depended on working “For/with” Dottie - and now that she is gone, very soon his source of income will be as well. It is quite possible that he did not even have insurance in this position. If there is a reason to contribute, this is certainly a well-deserved reason to do so. I encourage everyone to give freely to not only Ferguson family, but the others involved as well. Injuries of their magnitude are very very expensive.
    I know my family and myself will be doing so.

    Does anyone know if they plan to broadcast the funeral services over the internet for those who are unable to attend in person ?

    Doug - enjoy your min-vacation of sorts !

  7. Phil wrote:

    Should Bill Gaither move aside for a real Bass Singer…….??

  8. Grigs wrote:

    I don’t like black eyed peas. Sorry.

  9. Roger wrote:

    Our church in Georgia had Poet Voices scheduled and now some group called Crossing is coming instead but Phil Cross is singing with them. Any word on the street about this????

  10. Revpaul wrote:

    #8 Grigs, how can you call yourself a Christian and not like black eyed peas! Whassamatter wit you. ;)

  11. gc wrote:

    Crossing is a group that Phil travels with to do “Choir ” Seminars. They have been traveling for 3 or 4 years. It consist of Paula Stefanovich and Rebecca Cross(Phil’s Wife). They are very good!

  12. Grigs wrote:

    I’ve met Mrs. Cross and she’s a nice lady. I’ve never heard her sing.

    Revpaul, Doug doesn’t have enough bandwith to explain what’s wrong “wit me”. :)

  13. Inigo Montoya wrote:

    Where we did we put that wheelbarrow the albino had?

  14. Grigs wrote:

    I loved the new GVB album. I wasn’t sold on Marshall and Wes, but they really won me over on this one and I think Guy keeps sounding better every year. My favorite song was “There’s Always A Place At The Table”. I agree that Bill seems to re-record a lot of the same tunes, but for some reason, it doesn’t bother me.

    I haven’t heard Lordsong’s piano only album, but I did hear them do “Oh, Happy Day” and another song(Cornerstone, maybe?) at NQC a few years ago with Stan Whitmire and it was probably the best singing that I heard during my stay there.

  15. Andrew S. wrote:

    Maybe I missed something…but wasn’t their a woman Phil wrote “Champion of Love” with? If so was her name Carolyn? Was she ever related to him? sorry for all the questions…I still can’t figure out the answer.

    Has anybody heard Aaron & Amanda Crabb in concert? I’m going to be getting their new cd soon and would like to know if anyone thought they may be worthy of their Horizon nomination..

  16. SGFAN65 wrote:

    #15 - Carolyn Cross was Phil’s 1st Wife - they wrote many many songs together and was a dynamic duo. They divorced some years ago. I assume that Rebecca is wife # 2.

    # 14 - If I had to pick a favorite on the GVB CD - that,too, would be my most favorite. Guy is better than ever - Marshall and Wes bring a great new sound to the group. “Give it Away” was an AWESOME CD - I guess that is why I was so disappointed with the song selection on LOvin Life.

    # 7 - You have a point ! - Bill just needs to hire a great bass singer - and just come in on a song here and there and maybe handle the MC work. They have a bass fill in on all of the recordings anyhow - they should make that person visible.

    I encourage everyone to get Lordsong’s “Classics” CD - it’s an amazing CD of favorites done as only Lordsong can do. Check it out on their website -

    In rememberence of Dottie - If anyone has ever heard the arrangement of “Sheltered In the Arms of God” - but Shelton and Alison Lovern when they were known as “The Loverns” - you would understand that to be the ALL TIME BEST ARRANGEMENT OF THE SONG EVER !!! I believe it received alot of airplay back in the late 90’s early 2000.
    Shelton and Alison are now with Geron and Becky - but they had an awesome trio prior to this. Great Talent - and great arrangement - again of my all time favorite song !

  17. Grigs wrote:

    Re: #15

    Carolyn was Phil’s former wife and co-writer.

  18. JB wrote:

    #15….Im not saying Aaron & Amanda arent worthy. However I do think that it sucks that they received a Horizon nomination and Mike and Kelly’s first single was #1 and their 2nd single is at #2 and no nomination at all. It just makes you think……Crabb Revival and Aaron & Amada signed with Daywind and received a nomination with not much radio success behind them. Daywind must have romanced them there with the promise of the noms.

  19. David Bruce Murray wrote:

    You’re still ahead of me on page views if you’re getting 11,000 a day. I’m figuring on a “past twelve months” model vs. your “since January 1, 2008″ basis.

    That and 25 cents or so will buy us a cup of coffee, I suppose. Still, it’s a milestone that’s probably worth noting.

  20. John Masters wrote:

    #16 SG says - “Bill just needs to hire a great bass singer - - They have a bass fill in on all of the recordings anyhow - they should make that person visible.”

    Do you have inside info about that? Please tell us more!

  21. gina wrote:

    I contacted Christ Church in Nashville to inquire as to whether Dottie Rambo’s homegoing celebration will be available via internet. They indicate they are still working with the family on their specific wishes but the current plan is to make the service available online by 5:00 pm EST.

  22. Tad Kirkland wrote:

    #18, once anyone signs with daywind, magically the sn “fan” (and dove) nominations go way up. it happened with the crabb family, legacy five, triumphant, booths, and now suddenly amanda crabb is one of our favorite 10 sopranos!? (i’m not knocking her singing, just the process).
    and speaking of the bowlings, they’ve obviously inherited the trance kathy crabb and rick hendrix have on radio from the crabb family.

  23. mark forester wrote:

    If you listten to the GVB acapella cd you can tell that is Bill singing the bass. People assume that Mike Allen does the cd work. He may do a little but Bill really does most of it. If you have a truly discerning ear you can tell that.

  24. rngfreckles wrote:

    I just saw the Perrys last Friday night. And I was one of those people that wasn’t sure how Joseph Habedank who do in the lead position. But I must say, I was impressed. And Nic did an awesome job as well. His stage presence was awesome. Matthew Holt blew me away on the piano. At only 23 years of age, he’s going to have a great career in SG!

    By the way, Nic got stuck in the elevator at the church when they were loading the bus. Libbi, Matthew, and Troy Peach gathered outside the doors and sang “Precious Memories.” What a great finale to the evening! (I think they got pics on their cell phones.)

  25. jbb wrote:

    We love the Perry’s and also think the 3 young ones do an awesome job. That is just too funny that Nic would get stuck in an elevator. They are in our neck of the woods in June and I know it will be a blessed service. Nic, I think you will be o.k. here, there’s no elevator…

  26. Phil wrote:

    #23 Bill probably does sing more in the studio….but on the Together DVD and live show i seen in March, I felt sorry for Timmy Duncan having to do much of the Bass work by himself.

    This may sound sound harsh but i feel all Gaither does now is give the Vocal Band a name and an MC……i could be wrong and i respect the man 100%, yet if their was a “real” bass singer with the Vocal Band it may change their dynamic and sound too much for many peoples liking.

  27. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    Why hired another employee when you can do it yourself?
    Its good business and makes a lot more cents.
    Bill often drop back in some of the GVB’s song.
    You cannot find any better harmony anywhere when Guy, Marshall and Wes sings as a trio.
    Just think that Bill Gaither like quartets and Gerald Wolfe just wants to be a trio.
    You might have to pray for Gerald as Greater Vision Trio will have four singers on the bus from now til early August.
    Doesn’t that make a quartet?

  28. I Used To Know wrote:

    #15 & #17: Actually, I’m pretty sure Rebekah is Phil’s third wife. Carolyn was first and is the mother of his son. Then, he was married for a few years to another lady before Rebekah.

  29. Grigs wrote:

    Re: #18

    Could it be that folks are considering what Mike is doing now as an extension of his solo career and don’t look at Mike and Kelly Bowling as Horizon material? Just a guess.

  30. Andrew S. wrote:

    The Perrys are the BEST no matter what anyone might try to say!!!! I love the new sound!!! The guys are awesome!!!!

  31. studio chick wrote:

    Mike and Kelly are putting out great music. That seems to be why radio likes them. I have heard the entire record. It’s good. Why should radio not play them and chart them?

  32. JB wrote:

    #29 I dont think you can listen to their music and think its a solo effort. You could say Crabb Revival is a carbon copy of The Crabb Family (imo they are) but still they received a Horizon nom but then again…. didnt they sign with Daywind

    #31 NO one is saying they shouldnt play or chart them where did you read that?

  33. Joe wrote:

    I knew about Carolyn and Rebecca but had no clue about a wife in between. I tried calling the office for an update to be nosey about who is singing with them but no one answers.

  34. CVH wrote:

    Random comments of little or no consequence…

    I hate the key of B…

    not too keen on black eyed peas either…

    GVB is running the risk of getting into a fairly wide but not too deep rut in their creative. I thought the new project had some high points but it lacked the punch…either of material or charts…
    that could have made it a “10″. Was Bill channeling Noel Fox on the project? Or maybe it is a ghost singer…wouldn’t surprise me. As Bill himself would say, “Why not?”

    We should keep praying for Larry Ferguson and the other people injured in the crash. I’m sure their financial needs will be immense. I thought I heard recently that someone was putting together a tribute album (before her death), various artists covering some of her tunes? I’ve always had mixed feelings about Dony and his work. It can be outstanding or really trashy. Let’s hope that if he does a tribute project with Reba it comes out tasteful and more about Dottie than him. Haven’t heard Reba in years but she had a phenomenal voice.

    Maybe someone ought to take on the project of doing a flow chart of all the marriages/divorces/affairs/etc. in SG. Then you could know for sure who’s second wife married who and which tenor in which group is the love child of…Singing News could include it in their January issue as a special bonus. And you KNOW people would read it.

    Has anyone ever noticed that Rodney Griffin bears a resemblance to the actor John Malkovich?

    Every other question, issue or problem mentioned here is the result of either alien infiltration post-Roswell or global warming. I’m gonna go work on reducing my carbon footprint.

    Open threads are scary. Keep your arms and legs inside the website please.

  35. ben wrote:

    We were at a concert and Phil said he had two sons. One was singing with him named Brian. He was filling in for Greg Crowe last year. Are both sons from Carolyn? It starts to fall in place now why some folks are stand-offish when it comes to Phil Cross.

  36. Andrew S. wrote:

    Didn’t Carolyn remarry? I vaguely remember her having a different last name…not sure though.

  37. Sissey wrote:

    I believe Carolyn Cross last name is English. Who cares how many times Phil Cross has been married. He still a great song writer.

  38. Butch wrote:

    I care. I think it stinks! Don’t write about grace and love if you can’t live it.

  39. st wrote:

    So what are the thoughts on Canaan signing Mike & Kelly Bowling?

  40. Trent wrote:

    What do you guys think of Ricky Atkinson & Compassion’s new release “Until The Day” with Loren Harris & Greg Cook in the group?

  41. Andrew S. wrote:

    #39-I think it’s great! I hope this will give them a “backbone” so to speak for publicity since that they have had to publicize their music by themselves. I didn’t think Mike & Kelly would go back to Daywind, but I’m glad to see that they’re with a great record company!

    #40-I was sorta of perturbed that Loren was singing baritone instead of lead (IMO-he does better on lead). The song still is very enjoyable.

    Has anyone heard the Hinsons new song “Death in the Family Tonight”? I’ve been listening to it on Chuck Peters’s music player on southerngospelreporter and it sounds great! Very familiar to “Sin Died Here”. Does anyone else like it?

  42. Jim2 wrote:

    RE: #15, 18, 22, & 32
    What exactly do you think the function of a Southern Gospel Record label should be? Is it not their responsibility to promote their artists to the best of their ability?
    Whether it be Daywind or Crossroads or Spring Hill or Canaan, signing with a Label is a two way street with benefits and responsibilities for both parties.
    Take Mike and Kelly Bowling signing with Canaan (if the rumor is true) - Don’t you think they are hoping the prestige of the “old-time” name will accrue some benefit to them?
    When I hear the sour grapes about Daywind or another Label and their success or Award Nominations or whatever, I’ve got to wonder what the motive is behind the comment.
    I think this SG boat we’re in would go farther, faster if we were all paddling in the same direction instead of playing “Bunny FooFoo” with our oars.

  43. JB wrote:

    #42….I think the point is that neither artist Crabb Revival nor Aaron & Amanda have earned the success AS OF YET to be up for Horizon. And IF they had wouldnt you think that Mike & Kelly have had more success to obtain a nomination as well.

    And from what I remember hearing in the inner circles was the WHOLE crabb clan went throgh hell to get out of their contract with Daywind. Everyone in the industry knew that. Its just strange that both of those groups would be right back in something that they tried so hard to get out of. It just doesnt make any sense.

  44. MeMyselfandI wrote:

    I hate the lack of professionalism in some groups when it comes to emails asking about product availability. Over a few years I have emailed the Stamps twice, Skyline twice, Bowlings once, I belive the Trinity Quartet once and others I fail to remember I’m sure. Poor business to me and makes me wonder iff all of their business is handled with the same lack of follow through and professionalism. I may have had the opportunity to get some of them booked too, but don’t know that I would take the chance if they handle things this poorly.

    There are others that do a much better job. I’ll try to mention them later.

  45. Divorced wrote:

    #38–So being divorced diminishes your capability to show Love and Grace? Maybe diminishes your ability to recieve God’s Grace and Love? I would really like to hear your theory .

  46. A. Nonemus wrote:


    I, for one, could personally care less. Please forgive me folks, but some of y’all would make a Baptist preacher cuss! How would you like it if people came on this board and started airing YOUR dirty laundy as to how many time YOU may have been divorced or if Billy Joe from the “They’re So Annointed” Quartet has a glass of wine with his meal, or if Susie Sincere from such and such trio is not married, but when she’s not on the road, sometimes she sleeps at her boyfriend’s apartment and you just know they’re “doing it”.

    Bottom line is that Phil Cross is a very talented songwriter. But guess what folks? HE IS ALSO A SINNER AND HAS SHORTCOMINGS JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE THAT READS THIS BOARD!

    Aren’t you thankful for His grace that passes all understanding? If it were not for that grace, then Heaven’s would be missing a singer or 12.

  47. A. Nonemus wrote:

    I found a typo on my post #46. It should be Heaven instead of Heaven’s. Hope I don’t lose my salvation and get sent to hell over that one!

  48. brad wrote:

    I love it . Ricky has put together a great trio. He is a great songwriter whether singing news fan awards realize it or not.

    Same people every year .It has become so predictable.

  49. Rhonda wrote:


    God’s grace and love is available to all. It is through Him not through anything we do. The only thing required of us is repentance and considering his body of work, I would say Phil Cross has experienced it.

    I know people inside SG and outside SG who have been through divorce. The devastation it brings to all involved is enormous. The consequences are always to be lived with, but the ones who have gone to the Throne of God and asked for forgiveness are doing mighty works for Him. They are the ones who I believe truly understand the concept of grace.
    Yours sounds like a philosophy of works and the Bible I read says that doesn’t get us grace or love or into heaven.
    If Phil Cross having been married more than once is a problem for you, then say it like that. That is something for each person to decide (and I feel for anyone who lets that interfere with the ministry of the Holy Spirit in their lives) but we are not to pronounce judgement.
    Since none of us know the facts then we are assuming alot, and you know what the old adage about assuming is.

  50. wackythinker wrote:

    #43 JB — Don’t be so sure the hell the Crabb Family went through had ANYthing to do with Daywind. As for the two groups returning to Daywind, and one group not, just remember, “one of these things is not like the other.” HMMMMM

    If record labels have anything to do with Horizon nominations (as some have intimated here), that would explain why Mike & Kelly didn’t get one. They weren’t signed with Canaan, yet.

    Yes, labels do affect airplay and award nominations. Some may do a better job at one than the other, but the best ones do a good job at both. That IS part of their job. See Jim2’s comments above.

    Just some more wacky thoughts.

  51. Joe wrote:

    #46 If you only knew half of the story you may have second thoughts. But then again it will all come out sooner or later. Right in line with the Bakers and Swaggarts.

  52. rw wrote:

    I’ve thought it many times, now I’ll say it. The biggest problem with the southern gospel industry today is the people who listen to it.

  53. tad kirkland wrote:

    “Yes, labels do affect airplay and award nominations….That IS part of their job.

    it’s a label’s job to get a group “fan” nominations?

  54. Wade wrote:

    AMEN… ANon 46 & rw 52… but rw… say SOME of The People… The HOLY ONES!!! HOLIERS!!! The spellin & grammar NAZI’s. Seems they are often the same. lol

  55. Ben Harris wrote:

    #52 You are only partially right. Southern Gospel is so small that everyone knows everyone else, and the old sins of envy and pride tend to get in everyone’s way, including mine. I do not know Phil personally although our bass singer, Alan Brewster is a neighbor of his. And it would seem to me, if there were a lot fire behind so much smoke, I would have heard a bit about it from our bass, even though he doesn’t say a bad word about anyone, ever. We all have misdeeds and bad judgements in our past that we wish we could go back and re-do. But, all of those missteps, and failures along the way brought us to where we are today. I for one have become stronger in the faith due in large part to overcoming my own shortcomings, and I still have many shortcomings to overcome. Southern Gospel is a small entity. We are like a large family constantly nipping at each other’s heels, when we should be combining our efforts to strengthen that family. For every person associated with Southern Gospel who posts on an internet web site, there are probably hundreds who think it is silly to do so. I probably should join that mast majority, as investing in time and energy to do so seems like a mindless adventure. But lets be very clear, we artists do this to keep out name in front of the audience. Any of us who would say otherwise are likely not being honest with ourselves. I wonder if any of this internet babble is worth the effort. I love the music and I love talking to others who have similar passions, but I do grow tired of the backbiting and rumor mill. We of Southern Sound have gone through the fire with the wrong personel. Now after turing it over to He whom we sing for….we have the most stable and talented crew we have ever had. So that is my shameless plug for the day.

  56. Mountain Mother wrote:

    So regardless of what someone is engaged of doing and regardless of what people have done in the past and keep secret, as long as they are singing the right message or preaching the right message we are to gladly and whole heartly receive it. Yeah right!

  57. wackythinker wrote:

    No, Tadd. Maybe I oversimplified. It’s the label’s job to get the artist noticed (played on radio, publicity out to the media, etc), so the fans will want to nominate them.

    Frankly, I’m not sure how the nominating process works, whether the nominations come from the fans, the industry, or both. But let’s face it, GENERALLY, artists don’t get nominated for awards if they don’t have some kind of machine behind them. That’s true not only in s/g, but in all of music. And entertainment in general.

  58. john masters wrote:

    # 56 said - “regardless of what people have done in the past and keep secret”

    That is what our songs say, and what the New Testament message is. That is what Jesus said, too! The only people Jesus condemned were the religious people who looked down on folks who were not as good as they were. You know, the folks who shut other folks out because of who the were or what they had been.

    So, yeah! Let there be a “woman at the well” and a “man after God’s own heart” in every group. God loves to hear them sing too! Probably more than the perfect folk.

  59. Ben Harris wrote:

    No Mountain Mother, that was not what I was saying at all. We should not turn a blind eye to sins that bring reproach on His name. But, we should be very cautious about spreading rumors, or even truths about an individual. Who knows when or if, he or she may have prayed to the Lord and asked forgiveness? Southern Gospel has long been guilty of eating its own, and there seems to be no pattern as to who gets hit the hardest. I know of SG individuals who have commited very public, hard to ignore sins, who have basically been given a free ride. And I know of others who have slipped an fallen once, only to have been cast aside by SG never more able to rise above their misdeeds. My point is, none of us are perfect, and if we are to err on one side or the other, it seems to me as if we as Christians should err on the side of compassion and forgiveness. Where I draw the line is in “not having natural affection” and being guilty of things that bring dishonor to God in a way that cannot be overlooked. But even then, I know of people guilty of such who are embraced by SG as a whole without question. It is difficult to make a stand against the sin without making a stand against the sinner, of this I am fully aware. But a little humble spirit never hurt any of us.

  60. LKJones wrote:

    Why such commotion over Phil’s past? Poet Voices has less of an influence in Southern Gospel Music today than Young Harmony does. Phil is a good songwriter and should keep to that. As the thread said before songwriters never get mentioned so it would be a win win situation for him.

  61. Jim2 wrote:

    No, but it is a label’s job to get the groups “name” out there and get those multiple “impressions” My suspicion is that just the simple fact that “Mike and Kelly Bowling” not having the word “Crabb” in it may have as much to do with not getting the Horizon nom as much as any other factor. That and the one already mentioned, that many may have seen it as an extension of either Mike’s solo career or the Bowlings. Crabb Family has thousands of names on their e-mail blast - many factors, none of which have any real bearing on ministry value or singing talent - at this point it’s mostly name recognition.
    The funny thing is, I’m sure Mike, Kelly, Terah, Adam, Aaron or Amanda are not fighting about this - it’s just the crazed fans!

  62. Anonymity wrote:

    Hey y’all–Phil Cross’s marriage(s) does/do not bother me. If I can keep getting a blessing from his songs…that means something’s still working. BTW-If you have a problem with it…don’t talk to fans about it (that could make the story/question worse!)…talk to the singer about it. It won’t do any good to talk about them instead of talking to them. Trust me-I’ve inquired before (in a different scenario) and they were gracious enough to give me a decent answer…

  63. Jeremy wrote:

    #60 there may be something to what you say. Maybe these are actually people who work for Phil Cross trying to drum up attention to a sub-tacular southern gospel group.

  64. Derek wrote:

    Where’s Jerry Lawler when you need him? On the other hand, this may be beyond WWE…more UFC! LOL

  65. Sissey wrote:

    PLEASE! Can we talk about someone else besides Phil Cross? Who plans on attending Dottie’s funeral on Monday? I wish I could but I have to work.

  66. Brent wrote:

    ATTN: Goodman Fans!

    Rick has announced that it is time to renew your membership on the Vestal and Friends Website - you better hurry up and get it!

  67. Rod wrote:

    Mr. Masters and those who do not want to judge or condemn…Jesus also said to the women at the well, “go and sin no more”. David also lived in a spirit of repentance the rest of his days with a lot of consequences to boot. My granddads favorite saying was. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, waddles like a duck, it’s probably a DUCK. Now I’m not a rocket scientist or claim to be one of those “holier than thou” folks, but I can make an “OPINION” on what I see. And for the record I have been divorced once and I took responsibility for that broken marriage…But come on Mr. Masters THREE TIMES…The bible also talks about a “Bishop” running his family and children. If he can’t he is not worthy of that position. Maybe that is a rough paraphrase but you get the picture. The problem with Christianity today is that we have gone from legalism (condemning and ostracizing every failure) to the Joel Osteen book of loving everyone no matter the sin or failure…How about we step up and take responsibility for our sins and failures and if we KEEP screwing up folks…FAIR GAME.

  68. Kimmie wrote:

    I heard that the two singers with Naomi and the Segos left and Naomi is singing solo. Does anybody know if this is true or not? I thought they were recording their last cd and doing a farewell tour this year.

  69. Revpaul wrote:

    Naomi had been touring with Lulu Roman and Dottie Rambo as “The Golden Girls of Gospel Music”, a wonderful pairing which I saw recently. However, it was Naomi “and the Segos” so they’re still together.

  70. John wrote:

    Actually, it is true…the guys are no longer with Naomi. Kasey and Judson have left and started a business together.

  71. Ben Harris wrote:

    Fair Game???

    “Judge not lest ye be judged.”

  72. Butch wrote:

    That’s what I’m talking about #67. I get so sick and tired of these people who think a person is a closed minded legalist if they stand up for the Word of God. All I know is that if my pastor stood up front and tried to minister to me having been married and divorced multiple times, I would have a hard time swallowing it. Now this isn’t about salvation people; this is about character and character matters and bad character has its consequences. I don’t want my kids being raised looking up to these people we call our heroes when in reality they are no different in many respects than the those from Hollywood whose marital status continually changes when I read about them in the entertainment section on the back of our newspaper. Sorry about the run on sentence.

  73. ben wrote:

    #52 Maybe us fans wouldn’t have so many problems if you artists would clean up your act. As a Christian we are to be in the world but not of the world. Married three times? Come on now. It’s a shame that you wouldn’t be able to tell that some of these artists are even Christians, the only difference we see is the song they sing. We all are to be a light in this dark world on and off stage. Call me what you may but I call it standing up for what I believe and if your goong to preach it on a stage through song you need to practice it.

  74. SG_Obzerver wrote:

    Ok …here goes…Has anyone else been watching the Music City Showcase Awards and Convention that has been airing on the SkyAngel Network the past few days? I have to say that it makes the Quartet Convention and Singing News Fan Awards look like the Oscars. I stumbled across this by accident and like driving by a horrific car crash, I simply cannot stop watching. I know that by doing so I have surely condemned myself to Southern Gospel purgatory where I will be spanked by Roy Pauley while being made to listen to old scratchy quartet records for a millennia or more. Please tell me that I am not the only one subjecting myself to this cringe-inducing SG awfulness. Pray for me! ARRGGHH!

  75. irishlad wrote:

    Just to change the subject for a moment; what ever happened to those great eccentric names Gospel singers had in the 40’s 50’s and sixties? I’m thinking of the Elmo Faggs(hilarious) and Denver Crumplers to name two, never mind the coined ones from Lee Roy A such as London Parris. Can anyone name current performers with weird names? Or perchance Mr Pauley could coin a few thus conflating eccentric names and sg excellence.

  76. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    #73, we can solved the situation from another viewpoint.
    Maybe we, the fans, start minding our own business instead of being parasites seeking to eat the artists alive just because of some missteps along the way of life.
    Surely, we all have family members, neighbors, friends, and associates (believers in Christ) that surrounds us who have situations similar to the artists along the way.
    The artists suffers more than our associates because the artists made a choice to make a living that depends upon the perceptions of their supporters.
    It takes years to build up a core base of support but the same perception can cause a huge stumbling block overnight.
    More people that know something negative travel faster and cause the artists more grief.
    Just think! How many people would really care about your misstep along the way? The answer would would be “one too many.”
    Artist’s answer probably would be “one thousand too many.”
    Get the point?

  77. Derek wrote:

    #74…it’s a pay-to-play event. Basically you pay enough $$$ and you get to appear and probably win an award too!

  78. Brett wrote:

    Evidently the people who call themselves Christians think they don’t care about how Phil and his divorxes. Remember in the Bible Narrow is the way and very people find it it. You are luke warm Christians who will be spewed out of Jesus’s mouth on judgment day. There is accountability. Willing to sin while serving what you think Jesus is is a dangerous place to be in when judgment day comes. So I am concerned about the many times Phil’ gets married, it’s called I cam make the Gof of Heaven into my own image and pick what parts of Jesus I want to believe in and what not to believe. There is one way to live on the narrow road, just make sure you are not fooling yourself with comments about “I dont give a rat’s butt”.

  79. Brett wrote:

    You can critize the spelling too if you want, you get the gist of the message.

  80. Ben Harris wrote:

    Someone brought up the woman who was about to stoned. Those about to do the stoning were the believers of that day, the body of the church if you will. When Jesus began to write in the dust of the street, scholars believe he was writing the sins of those about to do the stoning. Then the people dropped their stones and walked away. Jesus asked the woman, where are your accusers? And she replied, none Master. I saw unto you, neither do I condemn thee go and sin no more.

    So I say to everyone who would throw stones, be sure your indigination is proper. For God is the judge and jury, and He alone decides when a sin has been forgiven. I know a very Godly man who has been divorced, and re-married three times. He caught the mother of his children in bed with another man. Was he right in divorcing her? According to the Bible, yes he was. His 2nd marriage was to lady who was more of a friend to him than anything, and it turned out they were not meant to be together, and thus it did not work. He was ery much wrong to marry the woman, but does that make him a disgusting person, or simply a man who in his weakness made some bad choices. Now he is living a Godly life and I would not be afraid to call on him for prayer if I needed. I have that kind of faith in the man. My pastor and I were on the lake fishing one time and I asked him about this very circumstance, asking about the phrase, “What God hath joined together……” His comment was, “How many people who get married have asked God if it is His will? There are many marriages that God had nothing to do with, never ordained, nor approved. To think that just because two people decided to get married was in God’s will is arrogant at best. Most people get married out of lust, not out of a sense of love for one another let alone a duty to God.”

    I would prefer every singer, and every preacher and every lay person have a perfect, sinless life. And since that is impossible, I am willing to take a person at his word when he tells me God has forgiven him of his transgressions. I have no choice but to do so. It is commanded of me to do that very thing. Is there one among us who has never sinned? Is one sin worse than another? Is God less capable of forgiving one kind of sin than another? Is His blood less powerful if the sin is a public one that the people feel complelled to expound upon? We should be very careful in who we accept or reject as the body of Christ, for in that process we might stiffle a great work of the Lord that could have been made through the villest of forgiven sinners.

  81. ben wrote:

    It is my business if my kids listen to songs performed by a group, learn about what the members of groups are up to, ask questions, and want to know why we need to set a different standard. I’m not condemming the man but I won’t condone the sin. We are all ministers in our own way and the artist is able to reach more people at once and needs to take account of his/her actions. My biggest complaint is with the artists that try to hide their past. I applaud those who have opened up and told how God has worked them through mistakes after giving them to the Lord. This makes them more effective in their ministry. Hiding it turns people off and sends an affirming message to the unsaved that “Christians” ar intollerent hypocrites.

  82. john masters wrote:

    Brett said, “You can critize the spelling too if you want”

    Thanks Brett. Bad grades for your spelling. Worse grade for your Theology (hope that is okay to say, since I did get your “gist”).

    The best part about Heaven for me will, no doubt, be the look on the faces of people who were hoodwinked by narrowminded, stiffnecked preachers who scared them silly on Earth.

    One famous songwriter said it best, when he said, “Boys, I’ve decided I’m gonna let a whole lot more people go to Heaven than I used to would.”


  83. JM wrote:

    We serve a wonderful, loving and forgiving God. However, after forgiveness is given, other elements and qualities of the Christian experience should take place…such as humility of spirit, restitution and discernment. I do not know what time contraints or limits God may place upon someone else. Nonetheless, it is difficult to understand how a person in a position of leadership in the Church can get forgiveness, make resititution and demonstrate a renewed spirit of humility within a few weeks or months or years. My Bible says that God is not the God of confusion. If this is so, how do we account for the numerous charlatans, who live like the Devil, get caught, repent like David and are back in the pulpit or behind a microphone before you knew they were caught in the first place. As God’s child, I can’t put myself in a position of judgement; however, He will seperate the wheat and chaff. And though I might not be comfortable with installing myself as someone else’s judge, please don’t ask me to ignore the situation or to pretend it didn’t happen. Here’s three words for some of our modern day, tarnished Christian superstars to contemplate and understand…Repent, Restitution & Humility. God has a vital place for all his children in his work; however, upon reflecting on his word, I find it exceedingly difficult to believe that God would ask high profile singers or ministers to resume their previous place in ministry. This resumption causes confusion…and guess who the author of confussion is??? God directs me not to judge, but he doesn’t direct me to be a fool for charlatans!

  84. JB wrote:

    Brett……You are an idot, shut up. Im sure you have a closet full of devils as does everyone else. Jesus is the only one that is perfect. Just because someone is on stage trying to tell the Gospel of Christ doesnt mean they are perfect. Believe me the road life is hard. These people take time out of their lives to try and take the Word out to lost and dying people. SURE there are possitive things about it, but I do know that the negative outweighs the possitive by far. Sweep off on your front porch and leave the judging up to God buddy. Next time he needs an extra judge on his pannel Im sure he’ll give you a ring.

  85. Ben Harris wrote:

    #81. The telling part of your comment was “Hiding it turns people off.” Many people are ashamed of their past lives and past sins. It maybe they can’t bear the pain of reliving those past sins, rather than becoming public about them. If the sin is confessed to God, forgiven of God, it really does not matter what people think. In fact, if a sinner has said that God has forgiven him of his sins, then the people are very wrong to continue to cast doubt about that forgiveness. You must have compassion as well as the salvation experience, otherwise we accomplish little for the cause of Christ. Will we be hoodwinked once in awhile by a pretender to the faith? Certainly. But it is the pretender who will pay the price, not the Christian who accepted his confession of faith as being valid. We are all sinners, every day of our lives according to the Bible. How can I judge another’s acceptance of Christ, when my own sins weigh heavy and are only forgiven by his grace and love?

  86. Mike McIlwain wrote:

    Ben Harris in post #80 has made a great point. In the church where I now serve we do not immediately rule out someone serving as deacon because of divorce. We take each situation and look at the circumstances. Also, we realize that if someone did transgress God’s law in divorcing and then later remarrying, we also watch their life after this sin. Their life will show through the years if they truly repented and got back on track. If they have shown themselves to have done so, then we don’t prohibit them from serving.

    In my 20 years as a minister I have seen churches have a no divorce rule for church leaders. (Sometimes this is good and necessary.) However, I have known too many self-righteous, puffed up gasbags who had never been divorced,, but were either pharisaical, lazy, or indifferent about the work of God and the concerns of His church. But since these folk weren’t divorced they were allowed to serve and lead while others who had stumbled and fallen but had repented and were now on fire for God were cast by the wayside. Many of the churches I have served in would have been better served to have had some of the repentant divorced men serving in place of the lazy or power hungry non-divorced men.

  87. irishlad wrote:

    Hey, come on give me a bit of feedback on ole Elmo(nice steady guy that he was, i hear).Lighten up time kids.

  88. Norm Graham wrote:

    What a joy it has been to read the posts by Ben Harris on this thread. It’s good to know his understanding of theology is as strong as his ability as lead singer for Southern Sound.

  89. Butch wrote:

    Friends, you have got to agree that there is a greater level of accountability when it comes to leadership and ministry-and that includes a gospel singer. You have to be kidding me if you think should turn a deaf ear/blind eye to all of this corruption-give me a break.I’m not questioning their salvation, but I sure as hang am making a judgment here based on what God says. I wouldn’t go for marriage counseling to Mr. Cross. Is that fair?

  90. LuckyDog wrote:

    #81…sends an affirming message to the unsaved that “Christians” are intollerent hypocrites.

    Now, I wonder where ANYONE would get that idea? (reeking of sarcasm)

    My friends, if you are looking for ANY Singer, Pastor, Church Leader, Church Member or forum commentator who is without sin, forget it, there is no such creature. Anyone who proclaims to be so is either confused, ignorant or a…liar. Yes, I said…liar, so don’t elect me to political office.

    If every Christian serving Christ were to quit serving right now because of sin in their lives, there would be no one left in all of Christianity to serve. We are a fallen, fragile people serving a perfect, mighty God.

    Before the judgemental “types” come howling, my point is this: WE don’t know what is truely in the heart of ANY man, except sin. If you have the “gift of judgment”, then go right ahead and continue judging. If not, then let God do God’s work and let us do man’s work. Only God knows the depth of a man’s FAITH.

    Isn’t it well past the time that we should be lifting one another up, instead of tearing each other down?

    I choose to exhort my brothers and sisters.

  91. Gloria G wrote:

    What a jerk you are. But of course, those of us that know you already knew that. Are you trying to make some insinuation?

  92. Gloria G wrote:

    Jason Crabb is not at Daywind. Is he not like the others???? Wackythinker?? Can you say something disgustingly insensitive about this, or was that reserved for Kelly only?

  93. Gloria G wrote:

    comment 91 is for Wackythinker.

  94. Practical Fellow wrote:

    Re: #84

    Yikes, JB! Why so grouchy? Brett’s not an idiot for holding those in a leadership/featured position to a higher standard. That’s not judgmental - it’s appropriate.

    Divorce hurts everyone involved. Anyone out there who’s been affected by it can testify to that. So God hates divorce. Fine.

    Consider: If your kids were listening to a “Christian” band and the band were known for immoral behavior (sleeping around, drug use, reading this blog, etc.) , wouldn’t you consider the appropriateness of your kids listening to this band? I would. I expect secular artists to act like sinners - how else would they act? But if you put yourself in an up-front position in the name of Jesus, then the rules and standards change. This doesn’t mean that preachers, gospel singers, whatever, have to be perfect. Obviously, no one is. It does mean that you need to live above reproach because your life is going to be dissected and scrutinized. And ultimately, it’s the reputation of Christ that takes a hit when your mistakes become known.

    I don’t need or want to comment on Phil Cross. I’d hate for my decisions and past to be commented on here. If you’re reading this, Phil - and I imagine you’ve heard about this thread by now - blessings and comfort to you. This would be awful to read.

    So Brett, I don’t think you’re an idiot. And JB, I think you need a nap.

  95. Radioguy wrote:

    I have read a lot of criticism about Gaither and the Homecomings here and elsewhere. Saturday night I got to attend my first Gaither Homecoming. Was it perfect? Actually it was close. The only 2 complaints I have is the sound could have had a bit more bass mixed in and Russ Taff didn’t do Trumpet of Jesus. It was an amazing four and a half hour show. My 2 teenage daughters went. They said it was one of the best shows they’d ever taken in and they don’t even like SG. They went ’cause they wanted to see Russ Taff. The technical crew/camera crew were fantastic. I was pleased to see 3 musicians on stage playing basic instruments with tracks. Kind of like the Speers used to do. And I got meet a lady I’ve admired for years, Joy Gardner. I told her how much I loved her singing and her contribution to the Downings. She was very ready to chat and very nice. Some of you on here have been very critical of Gaither, but it was the best SG concert I’ve ever been to. I had to laugh. I had my binoculars with me and was trained on Marshall Hall and Gaither. When Marshall moved his arm outward, he struck Gaither right on the end of the nose. From Gaither’s reaction, I don’t think it was rehearsed. I guess the only negative thing I would say is one of the Homecoming Friends looked very disconnected and disinterested. He even sat his mike down and stopped singing a few times and just stared off in another direction. It is possible he wasn’t feeling well…who knows. But he didn’t look uncomfortable, he just looked uninterested. But he was very nice to those who approached him. I’m not going to say who it was…I just don’t feel right about it. Other than that, it was a fabulous four and a half hours. Thank you to Gaither and everyone else.

  96. Tom wrote:

    Good timing?

  97. Jake wrote:

    There is a big difference between someone currently living in a state of sin while ministering, vs. someone who has an unfortunate “past” which they have repented of and moved on from.

    I don’t know Phil Cross or anything about his divorce(s). I can’t judge him. I think Anthony Burger was divorced and remarried, too. And how about Ronnie Booth from the Booth Brothers? I love both of them, but they both evidently have a “past.” If we are going to put every person and/or group out to pasture if they have a skeleton in their closet somewhere, we might not have much left to work with.

  98. bob wrote:

    I believe “Practical Fellow” has it right. I DO believe that someone “preaching” to me either through the spoken word or music cannot be a very effective spokesman unless he/she is living what they preach. If they cannot live it, they need a new line of work I believe.

  99. 2miles wrote:

    #80 and others

    I’m glad for the “neither do I condemn thee”, but I wish we concentrated as hard on the “go and sin no more” part…

  100. Ben Harris wrote:

    #99 Now that is the right answer. I am afraid we as mere mortals don’t see the need to focus on the later as much as we should. In fact I don’t think we focus on either one of the statements as much as we should. This entire thread is a great example of that. If we did take Jesus’ word at face value like we should, this thread would not exist at all. But instead we still arm ourselves with stones made of harsh words, ready to plummet a brother who maybe struggling. We tend to believe that someone’s very public sin is greater than our private and petty sins, which we tend to discount as just being human. In reality, one sin is just as great as another in the sight of God. The rest of this posturing is all man made, and has nothing to do with God’s grace or forgiveness. When it was said, “Not of works lest any man should boast” it meant exactly what it said. Our forgiveness from God is a gift, for He alone knows we are certainly not worthy on our own merits to be called a child of His. So then, how can we take it upon ourselves to condemn one as less worthy than another, when all of us are unworthy to begin with? There are no degrees of sin in the sight of God. And when we became blood bought by His grace, the sin in our life is paid for by His goiving of Himself on the cross in our place. To not realize that act paid for all sins is to not believe in the Holy power of God. Our only requirement is to believe an surrender our hearts to Him. I find it very troubling that we as Christians would rise up so quickly to defame one of our own. Should we not be embracing a fallen family member and help that person stand again on their own? If God can use a donkey to speak His truth, surely He can use the very least among us.

  101. Chuck Stevens wrote:

    I attended a Gaither event Saturday May 10th in Tulsa. I was pleased to see the three live band members on stage, it was just enough with the tracks. Normaly, i like the package southern gospel shows, but they blew me away that night. All the groups were on and the prodution was equal to anything i have seen in the secular market. The spirit of family and friends was in the air, that is what the church needs to draw people in. Southern Gospel was well represented that night in Tulsa.

  102. GospelTruth wrote:

    I have 2 posts that everyone here should read:

    1. The reason Mike and Kelly Bowling did not get a Top 10 Horizon nomination this year is because PEOPLE DON’T CONSIDER THEM A NEW GROUP - it’s that simple. When they were the “Mike Bowling Group” they were nominated. Just because Kelly jumped on board and they had personnel change didn’t inspire people to renominate them. GET IT?

    2. On divorce and remarriage: What does “go and sin no more mean?” It means go and SIN NO MORE. Remarriage is sin: “He that marrieth her that is divorced committeth adultery…” I don’t care if you believe that divorce can be Biblically justified or not, but there isn’t ONE place in the Bible that makes a provision for remarriage. So if it sin, then you need to SIN NO MORE. I’ll let you make the conclusion…

  103. Redeemedone wrote:

    If God will forgive a thief, if he will forgive a murderer, he will forgive me for being divorced and remarriage. And by the way, When you accept His forgiveness, it is past, present, and future sins. He knew every move you would make and still died for you. Period!

  104. JB wrote:

    Gospel Truth….if you say once you accepted Christ that you did not sin any more your fooling yourself and everyone else. No sin is greater than the next.

  105. Ben Harris wrote:

    What constitutes marriage Bibically speaking? Is it the ceremony? No. It is the act of consumating the marriage. In those days that was the marriage. Believe me signing a paper and saying ” I Do” in front of family and friends does not a marriage make. How many men or women can say their spouse was the only one? High school and college are wild adventures for the vast majority of people. So are they all living in adultry? Can God forgive them of their past? Should we consider those wild flings a marriage? If a man re-marries and then asks God to forgive him, should he then get a divorce from his current spouse to make him right with God?

    You set standards that are great standards and goals to live by, but I am afraid you will be very surprised to find in Heaven a lot of re-married individuals who you seem to think have no chance of entering in.

    If you do your research on the subject, being the “husband of one wife” was referring to those who practiced polygamy, having more than one wife at a time. And the Bible does refer to divorce and remarriage. I will find the actual chapter and verse and post it for you to read. We have long taken out of context various remarks in the Bible and changed their meaning to suit our own needs. One of my pet peeves is the use of the quote “If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me”. We hear this used in song, sermon and testimony as the need for us to personally lift Christ up above us so that others can see Him in our lives. The falicy of that is that Christ does not need to be lifted on high by us, he already is. And the next verse after His statement above was, “This He said signifying what death He should die”. But still countless Christians use this phrase incorrectly. I have heard “I want to lift Christ up to a lost and dying world”. Great sentiment and intent, but theologically, very incorrect. Christ died for us that our sins might be forgiven. That meant all our sins. We are not capable of living a sinless life, for as the Bible says, even our hearts are on evil continually. And we know that in God’s eyes one sin is just as bad as the next, so how can we enter in when it says no sin shall enter in? This temporial body is sin, when we are resurrected in newness of life, we shall be like Him, without sin and without blemish. His blood bought price made that possible. I am very glad and happy to know He made they way for me, because I could never have done it on my own. And neither could you, Billy Graham, or Phil Cross. All of us are sinful creatures, not one of us are worthy of entering in.

  106. JW wrote:

    I love Christians who just turn off their minds to “not judge.” Something tells me none of you “thou shalt not judge” actually practice that in real life.

    Anyone know if that Apostle Paul guy has a web site? I’m writing him a nasty post since he judged a Christian….and he wasn’t even there!!!!!

    Which wife cowrote “Champion of Love”? Sounds like the champ got knocked out in the 1st round.

  107. JW wrote:

    On further thought, I’m going out to a couple of bars tonight and finding some babes and have some fun!

    I think I might like this “Thou shalt not judge” mantra.

    I think I’ll quit wasting my time reading The Bible, too. I could be drinking and watching some good porn by the time I read a few chapters. Hey, I’m forgiven, aren’t I?

    Let’s all eat and drink for tomorrow we die!

  108. DEB wrote:

    Is there still a Phil Cross trio? Who is singing with him? Mitchel Jon or Dave mcvay?

  109. john masters wrote:

    Doug said “But judging by last week’s pyrotechnics, we might all be able to use some time between rounds.”

    Not only is Doug a blogger, he is also a prophet! Give us something new Douglas! Hurry! If not, hell will be filled with divorce victims, and there will be no one to sing at NQC!

  110. Ben Harris wrote:

    Now you are bordering on the absurb. A person in God’s will does not frequent unsavory places. It is when we get out of God’s will such things happen. I have a son and daugther, both grown, who I love dearly. If they commited horrible crimes they would still be my children and I would still love them. The price they might have to pay for those transgressions could be steep, but that would not change the birthright. What is born of spirit is spirit, what is botn of flesh is flesh. That was what Jesus said, not me.

  111. onemadeupmind wrote:

    #110–While I do agree with the “sonship” doctrine, one must look at the story of the lost (prodigal) son. The son was already a son, received his inheritance and walked away from it. The father said, he was lost, and now found, was dead, but now alive again. He was already a son, but if he had died out side of fellowship, the father said he was lost. When he walked away, the father considered him dead. It was only when he returned that the father threw the party. Some will say, this story is about initial conversion. Really? The son had received his inheritance and WALKED away. This story is about backsliding, walking away, and how the father considered the son if he had died in that condition. He would have died a son, that’s true, but he was still lost.

  112. Adam wrote:

    I am glad that I am perfect. Otherwise, I obviously couldn’t be singing or saved or ministering or witnessing.

    Since when did this become true?:
    Grace/Salvation = Perfection

    I forget from time to time that I don’t like reading others’ comments on Doug’s blog… and sometimes even Doug’s blog itself. I foolishly stumble in, get pissed, and write something just as absurd and condemning as all of the other AVFL junkies.

    This is the exact reason why when my group and I finish singing, we get on the bus and get the hell out of Dodge.

    …But as the belief goes, “A dog returns to its own vomit.”

  113. john masters wrote:

    See what I mean Doug?

  114. BUICK wrote:

    Onemadeupmind, you make some excellent points. But just a thought: is that parable really about the boy that wasted his Father’s money? If so, what’s the purpose of tacking on the part about the older brother? Isn’t the parable really about the older brother who stayed on the farm, worked for his Father but resented the forgiveness that was lavished (prodigally) on his erring younger brother?

    Seems to me that this may be the whole point of the parable. And seems to me that it needs to be considered here. Perhaps there are some “older brothers” who resent the grace that the Father is extending to his children who come to their senses and then come to their Father. Maybe they think that the sinning son got away with something they wish they could get away with.

    In the end, who was further from the Father’s heart:
    - the boy who left, squandered the inheritance, came to his sense and came home?
    - or the son who never left the farm but who resented his Father’s prodigal forgiveness of the son/brother who had gone but who now was home?

    Because NONE of us truly knows the heart of even one brother or sister who has gone through divorce and remarriage, we can’t really say if (s)he has returned to the Father or not. But if (s)he has, we’d better be rejoicing with our Father rather than scorning our brother from the corner of the field where we’ve been working. To fail to rejoice over the return of a brother is to be out of harmony with the heart of our Father.

    Or at least, so it seems to me.

  115. wackythinker wrote:

    Gloria G — #91, #92, & #93 — Thanks for the compliment. I haven’t been called anything as nice as “jerk” in a long time. I doubt I’m who you think I am.

    As for my comments, I’ll be less coded: Kelly is not blood-related to the Crabb kids. Her mother is Mike & Kelly’s manager. She’s the one who appears to have a problem with Daywind, as near as I can tell. Not the kids.

    Also, Mike & Kelly are “not like the others” because they are managed by Kelly’s mother. The others don’t appear to be.

    Jason is “not like the others” because he’s a solo act, not a group. Also, we haven’t seen a new recording from him, so we don’t know whether he’s leaning to s/g, country, contemporary, jazz, rock, classical, or anything else. That could be why no one thought to nominate him. Not really sure, just guessing, since no one has mentioned herein why they did or didnot nominate anyone for the Horizon awards. We’re ALL just speculating.

    As for insensitive, I’m not sure I said anything that any of the parties mentioned would take offense to. If they did, I’d appreciate a comment directly from them, so I could explain or apologize, whichever is appropriate.

    And Gloria G, since you know who I am, give me a call, and we can discuss it further, one-on-one. I’d welcome the opportunity. Unless you’re Gloria Gaither, in which case it would be appropriate to say that I’d CHERISH the opportunity, because I believe Mrs Gaither to be one of the greatest thinkers of our time.

    Give me more of your insights, Ms G.

  116. Jim2 wrote:

    Onemadeupmind #111
    Hey, read John MacArthur’s new book, a Tale of Two Sons. Talk about some perspective on the parable of the Prodigal Son. He also delves at length into the attitude of the Father and the other son. John also did at least a weeks worth of sermons on the radio a couple of weeks ago - well worth the $3 per to download the podcast.
    You just might find reason to re-make up your mind! is the website

  117. Sissey wrote:

    It looks like Dave McVay is singing with Phil. You can go onto Dave’s websiste and his schedule has him singing with Phil.

  118. Kyle wrote:

    Weird names - My name is Kyle Boreing, and I have been singing Southern Gospel music since the age of 13.

    Divorce - I have not publicly posted this, but in this case, I will. My son was born three months prior to my wedding. I was 20 years old when I married; we were separated a year later, and our divorce was finalized three years after that. My son is now 5 years old, and I have recently left a wonderful quartet job to be able to spend as much time as possible with him.

    The circumstances regarding my divorce are not going to be discussed out of respect for those involved (namely, my former wife and son). They are PERSONAL, PRIVATE matters that have been dealt with and are now in the past. My son’s mother and myself have a working relationship as we raise our son together, and I am thankful that he is well-adjusted; in retrospect, my son was only a year old when we first separated, and he really has only known Mommy and Dad as being apart, so I am thankful that he did not have to go through a major transition.

    I am now 25 and single. Would I like to remarry? Yes. Will it definitely happen? I have no clue; that’s up to God. All I know is that I am serving Him as best I can. It is very hard at times, and I have been in some very dark valleys, but His light has always shined through.

    On a somewhat different note….does anyone remember the comedian Sam Kinison? He was known for his loud, obnoxious, and very often vulgar material. Before he became a comedian, however, he was a Pentecostal preacher who had married at the age of 21. He had divorced by the age of 24, and subsequently left the ministry, being led to think (BY CHRISTIANS, MIND YOU) that once he had divorced, he was no longer useful in God’s eyes. He eventually went down a path of heavy drinking and hard drugs, as well as a couple subsequent marriages.

    Now, you tell me….is it more effective for someone to take the route of Sam Kinison and abandon the ministry, only to turn to the temptations of the world, or is it more effective for someone to remain in the ministry, still trying to reach lost souls? Just imagine if Phil Cross decided to abandon the ministry; how many people would have missed out on such wonderful compositions that have touched so many hearts?? God can take ANYTHING and use it for His will.

    On an ending note…..Kinision was killed when his car was hit by a 17 year old drunk driver. Witnesses say that he stepped out of the car after the wreck and collapsed on the street. He began to look down the street and started laughing saying, “No, not yet. I’m not ready,” then finally said, “Ok, ok, let’s go….” just as he took his final breaths….

  119. Brett wrote:

    JB, thanks for being Christ like with calling me a name and tellling me to shut up. God’s truth speaks volumes, I don’t need say anymore, as narrow is the way, perhaps you need to re-evaluate what road your are on. Only Jesus & You know that, till then I will constantly examine myself to see if I am in the faith or not.

  120. Brett wrote:

    BTW, you must be calling God’s word an idiot especially when it is truth. The truth shall set you free. This has nothing to do to with perfection. Jesus died for all. Those that ENDURE to the end will be saved.

  121. ben wrote:

    I called the office of Dave McVay (listed on website) to see if this was a done deal but got the answer machine. Called the BSA and they would not comment as far as Mitch was concerned so I called back and asked about possibly booking him solo and they said his schedule was wide open except where he was already booked as solo. So what does that tell you…Another one of the trio gone already????

  122. A. Nonemus wrote:

    Getting away from all this for a minute…I read on that Chris Unthank of the “up and coming” Sunday Edition is in the process of recording a solo project. Well, clear the path to the product table so I can be the first to get one!!!

    I wonder the they actually think that people believe their press about “up and coming group”…or my favorite past one, “Nashville’s most popular group”. Give me a freaking break! I’ll stop commenting before I get totally PO’d. What a total joke.

  123. Kyle wrote:

    #122….I’ve been up and coming for nearly 10 years….

  124. JB wrote:


    I was talking on a comment. I wasnt trying to be Christlike I was trying to comment on a subject. I do think you were being stupid then and now. I know exactly what road I am on….I would think you need to worry about the road you are on because you are so busy trying to watch the road others are on that maybe you have strayed there buddy. I think God is more worried about YOU trying to tear down other people than someone going through a divorce. I can pretty much say ANYONE who goes through a divorce isnt jumping up and down. Its just something that happens. Get a life and stop sticking your nose into other peoples lives. Im so sure if I followed you around all day with a hidden camera that I would find more than enough to send you to the pits of hell by my standards.

  125. scope wrote:

    Can anyone give me a satisfactory answer as to why Dottie Rambo’s home-going was not carried on the internet, but a CD will be sold. And whose decision was it? I find that to be repulsive. How exploitive can you get? I can’t imagine that it was Dottie’s idea.

  126. Montana Man wrote:

    A tag to Buick-114’s excellent thoughts on the prodigal and the older brother — a powerful parable in the discussion of lost becoming found. Each of the three men provide a wealth of learning opportunities. The father first gave his son what he wanted — freedom and wealth. And then, the father saw the prodigal while he was a long way off. He saw him because he was LOOKING for the lost son. When we are lost, our father is looking for us. And as fathers (and brothers) we too need to be looking for the lost, ready to welcome and celebrate the fact that they have come to their senses. Or maybe it’s us coming to our senses, and needing a welcome. Kyle-118, good stuff, and good remembrance of Kinison, the screamer — did he make it home?

  127. Ben Harris wrote:

    IN the parable, the father saw his son a long way off. He recognized him as his son long before the son offered to sleep with the hogs and be one of the hired hands. He was still his father’s son. Yes the young man was lost in the sense of “he had no clue what he was doing, and he was very confused about where his life was heading” but he was still his father’s son. I agree the message here is as much about the older brother and his jealousy as it was the returning son. Everyone who believes they must somehow endure to the end and die with all sins forgiven to enter in are not giving the Savior credit for what He did. His Grace is far more powerful and compassionate than you are allowing it to be in your mind. What would happen if while driving this next week, you get angry at someone who cuts you off and you yell at him for being a jerk? That is a sin, don’t you agree. Now, lets suppose in the next instant a truck hits you broad side and you are killed. You did not have time to repent of that sin…..where are you going?

  128. Granny wrote:

    Regarding Dottie Rambo’s funeral…how tasteless of the family to “sell the funeral” or a memorial at a later date. Don’t count me in on that. I feel for the employees who were in the accident. Their bills will be out-of-sight. No mention that any of the proceeds coming to Dottie will funnel on to the workers and their families. That might throw a different light on it. A separate fund has been set up for them. Hopefully, Dottie’s family will not keep all monetary gifts and proceeds to themselves.

  129. JB wrote:

    Granny…..I do agree that the taping is tastless. However what is even worse is that ANY of her employees would expect anything. They are employees, and should not be entitled to make any money on Dotties death. I dont think anyone should. The only way that Larry or any other employees should make any money is if Dottie included them in her will. Other than that it should be the familys choice.

  130. Rod wrote:

    This is a follow up to my original post #67…I can’t name everyone who has talked about divorce and remarriage but let me make this point…It’s not about divorce and remarriage…It’s about divorce remarriage, divorce remarriage, divorce and remarriage…Is that too many?? I understand God forgives. Who are we to judge, right? I just find it a little too much to stomach when churches/promoters keep allowing these artists to take the stage night after night proclaiming the gospel and behind the scenes living a lie…Am I judging? Maybe a little but where does it stop? Yes God forgives us and yes we do sin…I do have to disagree with one post about us “sinning every day”…Brother where is your holiness? We forget about that do we not? On another subject indirectly linked to this one. I posed this question on a post last year and no one would answer. How can a husband/wife and father/mother travel 250+ days a year away from his/her family and be the husband/wife and father/mother God intended him/her to be? I do not believe it can be done successfully. Sooner or later it will blow up in their faces…Oh I know there will be some who say…”Well it’s the work of the Lord” or “well you need to put God first” or some other lame comment about it being “God’s will”. My bible tells me God instituted the family before the church/ministry. I have been in and out of gospel music for 20 years or so…I have traveled and/or sang with many of these SG artists. I personally know many of the people that are blog fodder on this site and I have to tell you…I wouldn’t walk across the street to hear a good number of them…I have seen their “holiness” or lack thereof. I was one of them and I was just as bad. Does God forgive us? YES…But he wants, actually demands that we live in accordance to HIS word. I bet 65% of these artists do not attend church or bible study regularly (off the road). I bet most do not even have devotions on the bus when they are on the road. I saw their “fruits” or again “lack thereof. We wonder why their lives are a shambles…We wonder why a lot of these men are cheating on their wives. That my blogger buddies is my rebuttal. I’m not perfect but without the word, prayer and solid bible teaching we CANNOT live a holy life. I know I went a little crazy with this one but guys and gals we still have to live above reproach when it comes to being Gods man/or women and standing on HIS stage speaking or singing in HIS name. We cannot sing/preach one thing and go live another way. Here’s a good one…”To much is given, much is required”. You can quote all of the verses about God’s forgiveness and us not judging all you want. I can quote you just as many that talk about sin, holiness, abomination, adultery, etc. Anyway it’s late and I am now climbing off my soapbox…Goodnight.

  131. James wrote:


    Well then stay at the house in all your holiness, throw away all your sg recordings, because all the group members in your collection have sinned. If that is how you feel, then why even bother post anything on a sg website? You are wasting yours, and our time with your senseless blabber about your self-rightiousness and indignation. It’s because of your kind, that christians get a bad name. You shove hate and fear and bash down everyone’s throat. God is love…be thankful he even loves a self-endulged person as yourself.

  132. James wrote:

    oh yea..Rod….you can tell everyone at your church that they can let their hair down, and shave their legs, and stop wearing blue jean skirts. They can also wear makeup now. It’s 2008….all the cults have been exposed…

  133. onemadeupmind wrote:

    To Ben Harris and Others: I agree about the sonship issue. But IF he had died while in that condition, the Father said, he was lost, dead.

    Now of course, the Heavenly Father knows all, and I agree, we should not be so quick to discount God’s grace.

    As far as the other poster and his take on John MacArthur (sp?), I don’t follow his Calvanistic, once in grace, always in grace views. It is so dangerous to propogate a doctrine that says, no matter what you do, you can never fall out of fellowship with God. I personally, have a different view. MacArthur is no doubt a great Bible scholar in many areas of Scripture, I just happen to have a different point of view concerning eternal security unconditionally.

    Blessings to All!

  134. joe wrote:

    #121 I was in concert here in mississippi this weekend and someone close to Mitch told me he is not with PV anymore.

  135. jbb wrote:

    #130 Rod: Enjoyed reading your post and to James, why are you so angry at the post? Rod was not shoving “hate and fear” or “senseless blabber”. Maybe James, you just need a closer walk with Jesus. It’s not because of “our kind” that christians get a bad name. It’s because people want to make excuses why they won’t follow God or his teachings.
    There’s so much that can be said, but, I know I serve a big God that forgives, when I ask. A comment was made about God’s forgiveness being for past, present and future sins. He forgave my past sins, but, my present and future sins are only forgiven if I go to him and repent. I do not believe once in Grace always in Grace.
    #112 Adam: You made mention of “your group”. I was just wandering if you were serious, using language like you did….

  136. Granny wrote:

    JB….Point well taken. I agree that it should be the family’s choice, but I would hope that if they have plenty and the others do not, during this critical time in their lives that the family WOULD CHOOSE to offer a goodly amount to the employees’ medical fund. It would be a charitable thing to do. We will wait and see what the family does.

  137. Rod wrote:

    James…You are just plain Ignorant and stupid…And maybe blinded…It’s not about one marriage, one sin…It’s about how they live on a daily basis…By the way I am much more liberal than you might think…My point is that a lot of these guys aren’t living what they sing…Do YOU condone that? Does this NOT bother you? How dare you trash me for standing up for holiness…That my friend is our number one problem. By the way…I do not have one southern gospel recording. And I also have a goatee, colored hair and I wear American eagle clothing…I am not a legalist dude…Just a bible believer.

  138. Rod wrote:

    Sometihng else…I am in a church that the women wear makeup, shave their legs and wear pants to church…I don’t even have to wear a tie :)

  139. Rod wrote:

    Oops SOMETHING…Sorry for the spelling.

  140. 1 old fan wrote:

    Seems to be a lot of venom-spewing going on ’round here.

    Doug, should you close us down? Or at least HOSE us down?

    OOH! Internal rhyme. I should write songs!

  141. GospelTruth wrote:

    Funny how quoting Scripture and allowing you to make your own conclusions can draw such a firestorm…that really says something.

    I agree with one poster who said we take the “judge” thing way out of context. Quoting Scripture is judging these days…Guess what? It wasn’t when Jesus talked. That really says something too.

    Here’s the bottom line: God can forgive all sin - including mine. But I have to repent and TURN from it. I don’t think anyone can argue with that.

    If you steal a horse and then ask for forgiveness, God will forgive you. But don’t you return the horse? I don’t think anyone can argue with that either.

    Let the attacks begin…

  142. joe wrote:

    Didn’t you read? You can’t write SG unless you have a divorce or two under your belt. :-)

  143. JB wrote:

    James…….WOW that was great I agree with you…….Rod you are the one who is stupid….Sounds like you probably were kicked out of a group because you didnt make the cut and you are bitter and angry. Its ok to get over it and move on.

  144. Ben Harris wrote:

    I don’t believe it is approiate for Christians to talk to one another in the manner the last several posts have done. Please folks, surely we don’t want the world to see this kind of bickering, it sure does not send a Christian message. Speaking of repenting of sins!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  145. DEB wrote:

    Thank you Joe#134 But i almost forgot my original question about Mitchel Jon and Dave mcvay in Poet Voices because of all the senseless bantering going on about who and what sin is greater. And I was under the impression we women talked to much about to little. You all need to get a real job. Sin is sin, Be a witness or don’t be a witness, Judge not lest ye be judged, you can run but you can’t hide, you might fool some of the people but you can’t fool all the people, God said his word will not return void. I love the music and the songs and the message it delivers. I am not always convinced the singer is a witness. abut I always take away something. And fortunately I don’t have to worry about that. God takes care of everyone in his way and in his time. And he is full of mercy and he knows we are not fully capable of living a pure and wholly life without maintaining a personal relationship with him on a daily basis. God bless us one and all!

  146. art wrote:

    Among all the bile and denunciations, there are some legitimate theological debates on this thread. I find that interesting because often Christians refer to the Bible’s instructions are clear cut and simple. Often they are not.

    I’ve read the Bible a lot over the past several years and listened to a lot of sermons too. Sometimes there seems to be a disconnect between one part of the Bible and another — or between a sermon and parts of the Bible. I haven’t yet been able to pull it all together, but I keep trying.

    Avery provides this forum for a discussion of a small segment of Christian music, but for me it serves a larger function of allowing readers to think about their faith, God, the Bible and what it all means.

    That’s a much more worthwhile and thought-provoking mission than dissecting music theory and rhyme schemes.

    Thanks for providing this forum, Avery, and thanks for all who post. Even the boneheads. I learn something from all of you.

  147. joe wrote:

    #144 So your theology is basicaaly no accountability.

  148. joe wrote:


  149. Chuck Stevens wrote:

    Wow, guess nobody wants to talk about Gaither or any stage related stuff. The divorce and theology stuff is getting old.

  150. Robin Keith wrote:

    I think Phil Cross’s ex who is now an English got that name by marrying Biney English, brother of Michael. They too have been divirced many years….

  151. brad wrote:

    I quess their is nothing important going in SG other than tearing people down for past mistakes or regrets.No one is immune to problems and that includes divorce.

  152. Leebob wrote:

    I may as well give it up because the remarriage thing, according to some of you, will have me in perpetual sin, which incidentally, is the only such sin that I have seen in the Scripture. So someone please educate us on the theology.

  153. Ben Harris wrote:

    Leebob, I tried. But you can’t teach those who do not wish to be taught. In reference to someone above, I do not believe the Bible is at all vague about such things. I think it is as clear as it can be. This reminds me of a discussion I had with a man a few years back, when he found his view of theology did not quite jive with what the Bible said, he became frustrated and made this statement, “If the King James Version was good enough for the Apostle Paul, it’s good enough for me”. I immediately gave up and that is what I am doing here for the exact same reasons.

  154. Trent wrote:

    Back to Dottie’s funeral. I am curious if Buck Rambo was in attendance. Does anybody know?

  155. Got it wrote:

    I understand now why so many singers have girlfriends on the road. It’s ok, they are still married!

  156. sc wrote:

    Gloria Gaither wants to inform waackythinker that it is much harder to make a family than have a family!!I know Kelly, Adam, Aaron,Jason,Krystal,and Kathy WELL. I know how much HELL they have suffred to remain a family. I know how many people JUST like you want to degrade them and pile the rubble higher on the mess that was left for their lives. Here’s a news flash!!!! KATHY LOVES the CRABB kids. SHE raised them. The kids ALL love each other. THEY are NOT jealous of each other. They still spend holidays and birthdays and anydays together as a FAMILY. THEY didn’t get divorced!! Mike and Kelly are not managed by Kelly’s mother.

    That was the CRABB Family.1994-2007′
    FYI: the Crabb Family won Dove Awards BEFORE there was a Daywind contract. They also had the majority of their #1 songs before the singing. Actually radio was much slower and the results were much less after the Daywind/Crabb Family deal was signed.

    Kathy is now an associate broker for Century 21 and she is very happy and well.

    NO, KELLY is no DIFFERENT THAN THE RESTShe rode that Crabb bus for 14 or 15 years. She shared her entire life with the family. HER family. HOW DARE YOU SAY SHE IS NOT LIKE the rest.

    Adopted children would be in a sad state if everyone was like you.

    Bill and I will be preying for you..

    Tell Ed hi for me.

  157. Norm Graham wrote:

    Short article I read on Dottie’s funeral said 2,000 attended but did not mention if Buck was one of them.

    It did say that the Blackwood Brothers, the Crabb Family, Andrae Crouch, Jessy Dixon, Gloria and Bill Gaither, the Hoppers, the Issacs, Babbie Mason, Oak Ridge Boys, Sandi Patty, and Michael W. Smith were included in the choir that sang a concert of Rambo’s songs.

  158. gina wrote:

    Trent, according to reports I’ve read, Buck and Mae Rambo were in attendance at the funeral.

  159. Pedantic wrote:

    Rita Stacy (#6 Singing in tongues thread),
    It would be wildly inappropriate to post Annie’s e-mail address on this site, but this is her blog address - - you should be able to make contact there.

  160. Leebob wrote:

    Got it #155 - nice blanket statement… makes your point so much more valid. People have disagreed with John MaCarthur on eternal security now, which, would have to mean they have an alternative definition to “everlasting life”. We are saved by grace through faith but our works will keep us saved? I am glad my theology is not based on two things: favorite songs and the knuckeheads on blogs.

  161. Chuck Peters wrote:

    Ref: #122.. A. Nonemus said: “..they actually think that people believe their press about ‘up and coming group’ …or my favorite past one, ‘Nashville’s most popular group’. Give me a freaking break! I’ll stop commenting before I get totally PO’d. What a total joke.”

    First let me say.. I am looking forward to hearing Chris Unthank’s solo CD. He is a very talented young man.. and has done a great job on the tunes he sings with his family.

    Now.. I sort of agree with you on the “hype” included in most SG PR. That’s why I have long argued against simply copying and pasting press releases. Being an “up and coming” group.. or “the most popular” anything.. and “most anticipated” CD or tour, etc,.. is a matter of opinion and is not necessarily important to a news report. The PR person will always use the most glowing words and phrases to build up or promote their client or agenda… and more power to them. That’s what they are supposed to do (and get paid to do). However.. it’s the job of the news agency or reporter to see through the “fluff” and glean the meat of the item.

    The Chris Unthank story is newsworthy.. and can be edited to get the “meat”.. here:

  162. Sissey wrote:

    I think this thread needs to be shut down. There is too much mudd throwing on this thread. We should leave God to do the judging. This world is in bad enough shape without Christians going at each other. What kind of example are you sitting if a non-Christian came across this blog and started reading it? As a Christian I’m ashame of some of the remarks that has been made. It sounds like a Christians has no problem passing judgement on another person. People it is not our job to do that. Leave it to God. I have only been married one time and I’m still married. This doesn’t give me a right to rub it in someone else face that they couldn’t stay married. We try to pass judgement without knowing all the facts.I think it is bad that Phil Cross has been ripped apart for his past. Do any of us know his true past? I bet a lot of this mess that has been said is nothing more than rumors. I for one hope that Phil Cross or the Crabb Family never sees this thread. It will only hurt them and their family. Let’s work on building people up not tearing them down.

  163. wackythinker wrote:

    sc or GG (or whoever you are) — I’m sorry, I don’t remember mentioning anything about Kathy and the kids not getting along, nor the kids not getting along with each other. If I did say that, I apologize, because I don’t have any reason to believe they don’t all get along well.

    By the way, tell Bill for me that I don’t need him (or you, for that matter) “preying” for me. Praying, yes, I need that, and you probably need the practice.

    Have a wacky day!

  164. quartet-man wrote:

    #156 said
    “They also had the majority of their #1 songs before the singing. ” They were rap artists, writers, or involved in production? Otherwise, how would they have the majority of their #1 hits before singing? ;) Just kidding, I know you meant signing. It just struck me as funny.

  165. quartet-man wrote:


    A lot has been said about the divorces and remarriages and I am not going there. Many have done well with that. However, I need to correct you on some things.

    God doesn’t want us to judge like the heathens do or hypocritically, but he does expect us to judge. If not, how can we tell child molestors they are wrong? How about telling people that without God’s saving grace they will not make Heaven?
    The difference is not judging them for things that they have done and overlooking our same sins or worse sins. People seem to misunderstand and misquote that scripture so much. Read right after it and see what it says.

    Also, in judging we should let God’s word do its job. We are but the messengers. Otherwise do we just let them continue in their sin and not be told they are in danger? Is warning a child not to play in the street judgmental and mean, or is it the right thing to do? We should try to do it in love and concern not thinking we are better or in hate, but quoting what God says about sin is not hate. It is love.

    If the person hears it and decides to reject it, at least we did our part. We can pray and hope that God will continue to try to reach them. Sometimes people need to reach rock bottom. Sometimes people need more time to realize. Sometimes they never learn. I think maybe even sometimes they need to be told firmly it is wrong. I think this goes for those who will hear it no other way and who blatantly do their sin and are determined to shove it in someones face or be an activist. I think God gives wisdom in which approach is needed for which person.

  166. jbb wrote:

    Do we really believe that is “Gloria Gaither”???

  167. 1 old fan wrote:

    I don’t. Gloria Gaither has better typing and grammar skills.

  168. Grigs wrote:

    It’s not Gloria Gaither….not poetic enough.

    Don’t think it was Gloria Gaynor either.

    Or Gloria Estefan for that matter.

    Gloria Bunker Stivic? Now that’s a possibility!

  169. Sissey wrote:

    You can tell someone they have sinned or in the wrong but DON’T do it on this thread as a personal attack.

  170. Rod wrote:

    Once again no one answered my question from my post on #130…Seems to me everyone wants to side step it…Figures. JB #143…I wasn’t kicked out of a group and I have been offered several jobs from 3 maybe 4 of the top groups in this industry for all that matters…regardless I could make the cut with ANY group in SG without a problem…No arrogance intended…Also I am not attacking anyone…I put forth a valid point about being divorced THREE times. Again if most of you would read ALL of the posts and not comment on one that ticks you off then maybe I wouldn’t need to use the word IGNORANT…Definition: A willful neglect or refusal to acquire knowledge which one may acquire and it is his duty to have.

  171. quartet-man wrote:

    #169, Sissey, I would tend to agree, but Phil was only the vehicle with which the divorce thing came into play. People who obviously like him came to his defense. That is understandable, but sometimes we admire someone so much we are willing to overlook sin or not want to tell admit they are or did. Of course doing it here throws Phil under the bus and might not help him (if he doesn’t see it) or he might already know and not need his face rubbed in it or the past brought up.

    By the same token, we are there and if we excuse Phil Cross’s actions, we are saying it is not wrong. If it is under the blood and forgiven, we are to hold it against him no more, but still not condone his having done it to begin with.

    I was devastated when Michael English’s first scandal came out. I was angry at the lack of forgiveness shown. However, I never knew the whole story. It sounds like he had a bit of an attitude back then and expected to be forgiven and continue to do it. I love his singing, and admire him now (and did then), but this was a wrong attitude for him to have then and if we had forgiven him and looked the other way while he continued, we would have done a disservice. He even admitted in his book that he became even more rebellious and chose to hang around with people who would accept him as he was. The problem is that they enabled him. They didn’t help him up, he got worse.

    Don’t get me wrong, think he is a changed man, admire what God has done in his life, and I dare someone to read his book as it is presented and not get choked up at how good God is.

  172. Rick Hendrix wrote:

    As a representative of the Gaithers. Please dismiss the inflammatory, ill and un-educated comments and profanity someone posted as Gloria Gaither. She has not visited this thread and the poster is prohibited and directed to refrain from using Mrs. Gaither as an alias. I hope this suffices for a formal denouncement of Mrs. Gathers involvement with this thread.

    Rick Hendrix

  173. Inigo Montoya wrote:

    “I give you my word as a Spaniard”
    Get off your high horse before someone puts you in the albino’s wheelbarrow. No one on this thread has claimed to be Gloria Gaither - there was a little fun taken at a “Gloria G” posting, but it was very obvious in tone and text that the person did not have the spiritual grace or even formal education of Mrs. Gaither. THAT WAS PART OF THE JOKE!.
    ps if you are going to forbid and denounce, do it on your own website - I for one am sick of your attitude and (lack of a) sense of humor

  174. joe wrote:

    Give Rick a break, this is probaly the only place he can pretend to be as important as he thinks he is. Remember he officially represents the and only multi dove nominated group “Young Harmony”.

  175. Anonymity wrote:

    173 & 174-Thanks for the truth! lol!

  176. walks like a duck wrote:

    I would suspect Mrs Gaither would also have better communicating skills than her apparently self-appointed spokesman Mr Hendrix has shown herein. In fact, she’s proven that over the years.

    I would also suspect that, if Mrs Gaither (or any other official spokesperson for her) had felt the need to respond to what’s been said here, it would have been posted with more grace and class than anything any of us have posted, including the “formal denouncement” in #172.

    Souls are lost all around us, and people hurting from assorted losses in their lives. And we sit here at our computers, squawking about trivialities and nonsense. We worry more about who’s been divorced how many times and from whom; who’s cheating who; and how many stacks which group uses; instead of offering God’s love and peace to our hurting neighbors.

    There was a popular Christian folk song in the late 1960’s that said, “They will know we are Christians by our love.” I hope “they” don’t read this thread. If they do, “they” won’t know.

    Or maybe they’ll know what we don’t want them to know.

  177. Anonymity wrote:

    Hey y’all..I just spoke with Poster #4 and he said that he didn’t mean to bring up an argument about div./remarriage and would like for you to stop talking about these artists (namely the Crabb Family and Phil Cross) and their personal lives like their trash hoping to be recycled. :)

  178. quartet-man wrote:

    #176, yes souls are lost and need to be found. However, in a way discussing that divorce and other sins are sins (in a respectful way of course) could possibly get someone to know they are lost and help them find the answer. I agree though that there have been some pretty heated posts here and no matter how you slice that, do not come across as Christian love.

  179. quartet-man wrote:

    I want to ammend my previous post as it doesn’t accurately convey what I meant. Although I do believe that God doesn’t want divorce, I believe there are Biblical grounds and am also quite aware that there are times one person will cheat, leave or divorce without it being the will of the other. So, I will leave it to others to decide when or if it is allowed. My bigger point about calling sin sin is what I was really getting at. :)

  180. sockpuppet wrote:

    i just reread post #4 an I just bet he didn’t intend either of those things. Try it yourself

  181. Anonymity wrote:

    Sockpuppet-If you look at post #15, you’ll see his name as well.

  182. Grigs wrote:

    I told you guys it wasn’t Gloria Gaither! I was RIGHT! I knowed it! I knowed it! I KNOWED IT!


    I just hope a representative from Sally Struthers doesn’t show up…..

  183. Archie wrote:

    Stifle, Edith, stifle!

  184. Rita Stacy wrote:

    #159 Thank you for the address, of course
    I did not mean her personal address!
    Please Forgive, for using the wrong thread!!
    OOOps.! That’s a Crabb Song, have you ever
    heard it!

  185. Rita Stacy wrote:

    Hold it the title is Please Forgive Me!!!!!

  186. J.C. wrote:

    From time to time, SG musicians are caught doing things that make us exclaim, “Lord have mercy!”
    However, we should always remember to sing the rest of it: “Everybody needs mercy, for we all have sinned, and we all fall short of Your glory. I want to know mercy, so I’m going to show mercy; help me do unto others as You have done unto me; Lord, have mercy!”

  187. Pedantic wrote:

    I love that song and I love the Crabb Family (in whatever incarnation - just finished listening to Aaron and Amanda’s new CD “After the Rain” - it’s amazing)
    Crabb Revival’s “Runaway Train” is more up my alley, but “Miracle” from AA will move all but the most hard-hearted

  188. gc wrote:

    I have always said that the Gaither Tour would last as long as Bill Gaither but if Rick is the spokesman/woman/person for Gaither Music, I might have to change the odds ….

  189. Inigo Montoya wrote:

    I’m pretty sure he’s their radio promoter, at least for GVB. Not really sure how that works out to be “representative” for Gloria Gaither. Of course, I’m just trying to find the man who killed my father.
    Maybe Rick can educate us on how 1+1=11

  190. ben wrote:

    Right On gc!!!

  191. Shirley wrote:

    Has anybody else seen this? I’ve never been a huge fan of the Segos, but I esteem Naomi as one of the gospel greats. I’m not sure what to make of it all, but it’s sad, really. My prayers are with Naomi.

  192. Sissey wrote:

    I read the letter from Kasey. I think he made a BIG mistake by letting that letter go out. He claims he was trying to protect Ms. Naomi but what he did was hurt her. He had no right to tell anyone about personal issues that is going on with Ms. Namoi. If she wanted the public know she would have put out a PR and signed her name to it. I think Kasey has hurt himself in the gospel industry. If I was Ms. Namoi I would not let Kasey have anything to do with her ministry. Ms. Naomi needs to have someone to get her mailing list out of the hands of Kasey. Shame on you.

  193. g wrote:

    Has Scott Inman been married or engaged before? I thought I had met his wife/fiance at NQC last year or year before…

  194. benjamin wrote:

    #193 gc bringing up the divorce remarriage deal again? Hmmm disgruntled feelings? Didn’t a gc just leave Poet Voices? Rumor is Mich is gone also. Enlighten us so we can finally bring this thread to a close.

  195. g wrote:

    Sorry…try again…no problem with Scott at all….just had a question and wanted an answer..I happened to be a product of divorce and understand that things happen and people move on to sometimes better situations. I have NO problem with a divorced person being used by God to preach or sing.

  196. LS wrote:

    #192…I agree with you completely! That letter made me very angry–first, because I signed up to receive news from Naomi & the Segos, not from former members; second, because it seems that his intention was to hurt her. No matter what he claims his motives were, he’s not stupid and he had to know exactly how it would look. If Naomi weren’t such a kind-hearted lady, she’d probably smack that hateful little wretch!

    #193…I spoke to Scott at NQC last year, and when he said he was getting married soon, I just asked him about it. Yes, he was engaged before. Thankfully for all concerned, they realized it was not the right match. Better to discover that before the wedding, right? I wish I had!

  197. GospelTruth wrote:

    Hi Ben, I know you weren’t trying to stir up anything with Scott, so I’ll answer your question:

    He was engaged to a young lady named Kara, but then it didn’t work out. He has never been married before. He is now married to Kasey Embrey.(sp?)

    Congrats to the new couple.

    (On a side note since this divorce discussion needs a closing [LOL]:
    Your marriage is between you and God. Just look at Scripture and follow what it says and the rest is none of our business. But like Quartet-man said: We cannot simply lie down and ignore what is going on around us under the veil of “thou shalt not judge.”)

    p.s.s. Someone mentioned Biblical grounds for divorce: The only one I can find is “fornication.” Fornication cannot happen between married people - that’s called “adultery.” So…is there really Biblical grounds for divorce? And what happens if divorce and then repent, and divorce again, and then repent….? Like I said, if you steal horse, and then repent, you return the horse. Sorry folks, just telling it like it is.

  198. GospelTruth wrote:

    Clarification: I was referring to remarriage

  199. MAC wrote:

    “Hateful little wretch”

    That’s an understatement.

  200. GospelTruth wrote:

    On another note, who are guys voting for in the SingingNews fan Awards?

    Or, are you voting at all? I noticed the Booth Brothers are set to sweep a bunch of categories.

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