Open thread

[Fair warning, folks: this thread is closing before noon EDT - 8/11/08]

I’ve got be away for a few more days, so just in case anybody has anything on their mind that doesn’t include deadend debates about why conservatives/liberals are always right and conservatives/liberals are always wrong, here’s your chance (CB, this is your cue).

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  1. Jim2 wrote:

    What about Nick Bruno and his theory of “Bizarro” Southern Gospel?
    It makes sense what he is saying, but Averyfineline seems to be the only site where honesty prevails, and then “Downmarket Derangement Syndrome” kicks in and we all tear our hair out waiting for the flame war to stop.
    Seems to me like sogospelnews and singingnews are so worried they might lose an advertising dollar that they run from the truth that “Everything that coruscates with effulgence is not ipso facto aurous”

  2. Phil wrote:

    Anybody seen the new Ernie Haase & Signature Sound “Dream On” Trailer?

    Loving the synchronized leg kicks!

    Well it is Chicago…

  3. Trent wrote:

    What’s the deal with Sig Sound having a new project that you can only buy at their concerts? I heard bits & pieces of it on Paul Heil’s Gospel Greats recently, and it sounds like a really neat project with the old radio show theme. Too bad I won’t be going to any of their concerts….but I would buy the CD if it were available to me….why alienate fans by not making the project available to people who can’t or won’t go see them, but would enjoy listening to their recording?

  4. Kyle wrote:

    It’s in their contract with Gaither Music Group, apparently….they can’t sell any new products online until after “Dream On” is released (I think that’s the stipulation).

  5. observant girl wrote:

    LOL @ the new EHSS cd being “neat”. HA! There are groups that have been doing that same sort of thing with the two mics and piano for years and they haven’t gotten any sort of credit. All they’ve been told is how it won’t sell and how gimmicky it is.

    I, personally, think it’s mighty hilarious that people will jump on this bandwagon that ol’ Ernie is driving now. When their fans finally realize they aren’t as great as their stacks and tracks make them sound…golly…it’s just going to be a sad day.

  6. benjamin wrote:

    Ernie and Sig. Sound performed in Richmond Virginia and sold out a 3000 seat venue with no other groups. And yes it was Richmond Virginia, one of the toughest markets for Southern Gospel Music. I don’t think they are worried about people like the dilusional #5 poster. I have the new project and it’s great. Regardless of what you say, I’m very content that my 16 yr. old has an Ipod full of EHSS instead of most of the trash on the market today.

  7. observant boy wrote:

    observant girl = Lashay

  8. Trent wrote:

    The August Singing News chart is up on the SN website now….I see that Doyle Lawson & Quicksilver have jumped from #8 to #4 with “Help Is On The Way”….could it be that we are going to have a bluegrass gospel song go #1 on the southern gospel chart?

    I love it myself; DL&Q is one of the finest groups in Christian music today. And don’t take my word for it; ask a bunch of top tier quartet members….they’ll tell you they are huge Doyle Lawson fans.

  9. mac wrote:

    lol @ observant boy

  10. Irishlad wrote:

    I tend to agree with #5,there have been other groups in the past with easily the same ability,if not more, than SS,who for what ever reason couldn’t crack it.With Ernie the old saying holds true ‘it’s not what you know its who you know’.Just being in the right place at the right time along with a few other factors thrown in the mix like George Younce(finance)Bill Gaither(top notch marketing,contacts etc)just about did it for Ernie.To my mind the they were certainly no better than the other group(Mercys Mark)who morphed out of them at the time.

  11. Phil wrote:

    Following up my original comment….

    I love EHSS and I hate the way a lot of the more traditional SG fans hit out at Ernie’s style and vision. Surely the way in which they are able to reach out to people who would not normally be interested in SG is something to be encouraged immensely?!

    True Ernie’s style may be a bit different or controversial, but at the end of the day, if it is reaching unsaved people and encouraging believers in a much bigger scale than others could dream of (excuse the pun) why is their so many negative connotations labelled at EHSS?

  12. DrummingDrew wrote:

    We went to the (in)famous Dollywood in Pigeon Forge, TN a couple of weeks ago. On the way home, we stopped at Tony Gore’s restaurant. We were seated and lo and behold who comes out to be our waiter but Mr. Gore himself. That was a shocker! Also there waiting tables and running the register was non other than Kirk Talley. Now if they could just get a baritone singer to do the dishes……..! Anyway the food was great and excellent service. I’d recommend it to anyone in the area.

  13. gina wrote:

    I just read on her Gaither net blog that Sheri Easter has been diagnosed with breast cancer. Everyone please pray for her as she meets with a surgeon today.

  14. bbq wrote:

    The New Greater Vision

    I got a chance to see Greater Vision on June 20, here in Texas. It was great to see Jason sing with them one last time. I thought his vocal struggles (or non vocal struggles depending upon which camp you’re in) were more apparent than they had ever been. I really felt for him while he was singing. It appeared to me that it was difficult for him to be up there. I don’t know if it was the vocals, the situation with him leaving or if he didn’t feel good, but I’m not sure he smiled all night long.

    What I was THRILLED to see was that Jacob Kitson was traveling with them already. Gerald invited him on state late in the concert to introduce him. Gerald first gave the impression that Jacob would not sing anything that night, but after getting Jacob on the stage for a moment Gerald asked the audience if they would like to hear him sing one. The new line up sang “Little Is Much” with Jacob taking the lead. Let me tell you to WATCH OUT FOR THIS GROUP! They have IT! Jacob will definitely give this group a renewed sense of optimism and excitement they have not had in the past few years. They immediately received a standing ovation upon completion of the song! Jacob did a FANTASTIC job. If you get a chance to hear Greater Vision with the new line up you better take it. I can’t wait to hear them do a complete concert with Jacob.

    Jason….we’ll miss you. As Gerald said, we’ve watched you grow up from a kid to a young man. Good luck with your new position in Houston.

  15. CB wrote:

    [Editor’s not: comment relocated]

    Subject Change

    What’s up with the parent company of Singing News (Salem) dropping almost a quarter of their value [yesterday] on the stock market? ( TURN THOSE MACHINES BACK ON! SELL SELL SELL!! )

    Anyone know what’s up? (Or down?)

  16. Leebob wrote:

    Mr. Bruno nailed it yet again Jim2.

    There are too many production companies trying to make too much money to pay way too many bills willing to take on folks with too little talent and put in too little time to make too little improvement.

    I would add that a third group exists. Perhaps we could call them the “sub-amateurs”.

  17. jbb wrote:

    About Tony Gore’s restaurant. Are he and Kirk related or just good friends. I’ve read alot where Kirk helps there in the restaurant, or does Kirk live around there?

  18. cdguy wrote:

    Trent, the cd is available to you, even if you don’t attend one of EH&SSQ’s concerts. The info only said it wasn’t available on their website or through retail. Nothing was said about not being available by calling their office. The do take phone orders for the cd.

    As Andy said to Aunt Bee, “Call the man!”

  19. baritonebob wrote:

    Tony Gore and Kirk Talley in partnership together? Is there any other type of business out there that fans would be able to see some of their favorite SGM group members in action in the public eye. It seems like that I have read in past SN issues that other SGM singers(one of the Inspirations?) own restaurants but I’m not sure if they are out front with the customers. TG’s restaurant is a barbeque restaurant, correct? If so, how does it compare to some of the other southern barbeque palaces like Sonny’s Barbeque?

  20. Larry S wrote:

    Any thoughts on the Gold City reunion? I personally think it’s interesting that if you poll for folks’ favorite GC lineup, you’ll likely get an even split between Brian & Ivan / Jay & Jon. Yet, no Brian, Ivan, Mike, or Garry, not to mention some of the shorter tenured alum (Fain, Lacey, Hill, etc). Comments?

  21. buttercup wrote:

    Didn’t the Arnold’s (Frank and Vickie) have a restaurant in Tulsa, Ok?

  22. Sissey wrote:

    I’m so sorry to hear about Sherri Easter. I will put her on our church prayer list.

  23. brad wrote:

    i enjoyed thurs night.which Jay & Jon were my favs anyway.

  24. scope wrote:

    jbb and baritonebob,
    Tony and Kirk are not in partnership. Tony owns the restaurant and Kirk is a salaried server when he is not on the road. The food is some of the best I have ever had. I have never heard of anyone who left dissatisfied with taste or portions.

  25. Norm Graham wrote:

    Kirk tells a story in his newsletter about working at the restaurant this past weekend.

    He says he was waiting on a party of church people including a pastor’s family. Just as he started to take the pastor’s wife’s order, a fly flew into her hair and he meant to say “there’s a fly in your hair” but it came out as “there’s a hair in your fly.”

  26. wackythinker wrote:

    Norm, that’s SO bad, on so many levels. We’d better not say what we’re thinking.

  27. Bryce wrote:

    DrummingDrew, that is an excellent idea! Maybe Parker Jonathan could sing baritone with them. Also, I think Shannon Childress would fit in well. Plus, he can play and sing bass, too. All we need for them now is a name!

  28. Larry S wrote:

    Bryce, Bryce, Bryce…

  29. chickadee wrote:

    How about the Bar B Que Shop Quartet????
    Sounds kinda spicy to me, how bout you??

  30. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    This used to be an old saying but now it is starting to hit home with the current world events.
    Does anyone know the current price of rice in China?

  31. RLY wrote:

    Ref oist # 17 & #19.
    Don’t think Kirk is a partner with Tony. He and Tony are friends and Kirk lives near the resturant. His bbq far surpassed Sonny’s. He has seven different types of sauce that you can try on the bbq. We’ve eaten there several times and always the food is great. A lot of Southern Gospel artist traveling through the area and those that live in the area eat there. You never know who you will meet there. We’ve seen Karen Peck and the entire New River clan, Several Inspiration members, Jeff Stice family there and others. If you are ever in the area I would certainly recommend that you try Tony’s BBQ which is on Hwy 66 enroute to Sevierville/Piegon Forge.

  32. Mark Crary wrote:

    No# 5 and No# 10, you are so right, one day poeple will see and hear the real Ernie.
    No# 11, ask, “why is their so many negative connotations labelled at EHSS?”
    maybe if you knew the real ernie, you would understand.

  33. Gc11 wrote:

    Bryce..very well done!

  34. Amused85 wrote:

    The Arnolds do have a restaurant in Tulsa. I used to work there about 5 years ago!

  35. Faith wrote:

    #27 Bryce…be careful…sounds like people are starting to put two and two together (or is that “tutu” together?).

    Seriously, the idea of Tony Gore running a restaurant makes me want to barf. “Eat here if you want to look like me! We’ve got REALLY enormous, mutant-sized portions!” YUCK.

    #32 Mark, I hear ya. I hope that Ernie is in earnest (sorry, had to say it)…but most of the time, I just don’t get that impression.

  36. HML wrote:

    To some of us who haven’t been around SG a long time, the new EHSS project is “neat”, because normally I wouldn’t listen to the old style all the time, but since I love their voices and blend, it really caught on with me. Anyone else…eh.

    I don’t know much about the whole stacks thing (and frankly it doesn’t matter that much to me), but I have personally heard them stand there and sing without any tracks…or even without piano, and they ARE just as great.

    Why the controversy? They’re different, they’re successful, and some people apparently just don’t like ‘em. That’s OK. I say get to know them yourself…and then make the call. :)

  37. tellthetruth wrote:

    #19 young harmony owns a restaurant in chattanooga. pfchanges is a upscale chinese place. my and my wife were eating there and jonathon walked up to our table asking how everything was. he did that to several tables. I asked our server what he was doing and she said that he was the owner. that is first hand stuff. it was wierd to see

  38. Phil wrote:


    Know the real Ernie? who is he then?

  39. benjamin wrote:

    Geeeesh - Is there any topic out there we can discuss without Young Harmony coming into the picture. I’m not for them or against them, just sick of hearing about them.

  40. SortOfSGfan wrote:

    Seems like you should have let everyone continue their political discussion, Doug…
    that one received 117 comments and was infinitely more fascinating than discussing who owns restaurants and how good Tony Gore’s barbecue is. (Obviously pretty fine!) All we get to comment on now is inane stuff like this, and a satire of a WalMart Homecoming. Sad state of affairs, this. Does anyone want to resurrect how a true Christian could ever vote Democratic? lol

  41. Aaron Swain wrote:

    #14: I was at the Cathedrals Remembered concert in Winston-Salem, NC, which was the first night Gerald featured Jacob on “Little Is Much.” I agree with your evaluation; Greater Vision will be as good, or better than, they’ve ever been.

  42. Irishlad wrote:

    #40 I think Jesus would not have had a problem voting democrate, judging by the type of folks he hung around with anyway.Republicans would’ve been a tad too hypocritical for his taste,bit like the leaders of his day,all legalistic smoke screening while breaking the rules as it suited them.No, JC would have been an independant runner with a definite left-leaning mandate.

  43. mariehardy5733 wrote:

    Sortofsgfan, I gotta agree. Is there nothing more to talk about than who owns a restaurant and how good that Tony Gore barbecue is? And yes, Christians who vote for candidates who believe in slaughtering the innocent have not given much thought to what their vote means. Next will come the elderly because it’s inconvenient to have to take care of them. And really, we need big government to take care of us, because they really care.

  44. Rev-Joe wrote:

    #39 I agree! I am not for or against Young Harmony either, but why can people just leave them alone? I am tired of hearing it too. Lets talk about…

  45. chickadee wrote:

    #42, don’t you think JC is just a little too disrespectful for Jesus Christ????

  46. mp3guy wrote:

    Looks like the Perry Sisters have a new single- any idea when the album will be out? Are they touring? How long has it been since they last toured?
    OK, maybe not the most scintiallating subject, but rather than whine about how boring it is talking about Tony GOre or Young Harmony ….

  47. benjamin wrote:

    #42 Just maybe Jesus was hanging around that crowd that resembles the Democratic party so they woud be reformed, see and understand the err of their ways. You can’t convince me that a Holy and Perfect God would support a murderer, supporters of homosexual behavior and promoters of “many ways to God”. Yes love the sinner, draw them to Christ, but hate the sin, not condone it!

  48. nashvilleguy wrote:

    EH&SSQ were recently in concert in Nashville at Two Rivers Baptist. This concert was advertised for several months and promoted heavily by one of the local radio stations. The auditorium will hold close to 2500 - but I understand there was only about 1,000 people there. Nowhere close to a sell out. Is Nashville just that different from other places? I hear people always talking about how EHSSQ sell out big places all over the country.

    What happened in Nashville? Does anyone know?

  49. Glenn wrote:


    Get out there and save the world from those evil old Democrats.

  50. Irishlad wrote:

    #46Describing Jesus as’a holy and perfect God’(indeed he was, according to the bible), obviously delights and appeals to the conservative who attempts through their life style to emulate a holy God. However if Jesus the man came storming into their lives ‘eating and drinking’they’d be shocked off of their sanctimonious cloud nine.

  51. Dawn Dunlap wrote:

    #32 Mark, so true. If people knew the “real” Ernie not just the “stage” Ernie many would be disappointed. He is a different persona on stage than in real life, but he is not the only one!

  52. Kyle wrote:

    In other news….Russ Taff’s daughter survived a shark attack (got her foot bit by a baby shark). How often do you see that in SG news??

  53. JW wrote:

    I had the joy of attending the all night sing in Bonifay, Florida. Every performer there was quality… Every taste of music was catered to..from QT music to country-ish genres were hit… I was very impressed as always with the Dixie Echoes….. Especially their bass singer…He had several memorable moments…… Triumphant was great as always, although their were a few moments that the sound was not running properly for them….. but they were pros none the less…….. last but certainly not least….the Talley Trio was amazing…..

    In short, it was a great concert…did anyone attend?

  54. cynical one wrote:

    mariehardy5733 — By “candidates who believe in slaughtering the innocent”, I assume you are referring to war-mongering Republicans, too, not just abortion rights advocates?

  55. cdguy wrote:

    nashvilleguy — I was at that concert, too, and although I wish there’d been more, it wasn’t bad for Nashville. No one has been able to draw a huge s/g crowd in this town in the 25 years I’ve lived here, except Gaither. And he doesn’t sell out the arena here. Notice he’s dropped Nashville from his itenerary some years?

    And I don’t know any other s/g act drawing 1,000 or more here.

    Now, that being said, am I a huge fan of EHSSQ? No. But I enjoyed the concert. I like them better on their own than part of the Homecoming concert.

    Just my opinions.

  56. Realistic wrote:

    Most artists — of any genre, mainstream or Christian — really dread having gigs scheduled in Nashville because concerts are less well-attended.

    I’ve heard many guesses as to why this is true; my take is that people who work in the music industry (or are around it a great deal) are easily bored and/or jaded, simply because they have heard it all before. Unless they get a comp (free ticket) to go, they generally don’t spend their hard-earned money and personal time for something connected with their “job.” (And even with comps there are empty seats; it’s the old adage that if you don’t pay for it, you won’t appreciate it as much, and it’s easier to let a time conflict cause you to skip it.)

    It’s too bad, but understandable for finite, flawed human beings. On a spiritual level, I think it’s one of the results of the fall in Eden. It’s the law of diminishing returns; one concert is great, two are good, but more & more & more become a blur and are ultimately less satisfying.

  57. mp3guy wrote:

    not sure what in my comment caused your outburst, but I wonder if your aside “according to the bible” means that you doubt that Jesus was “holy and perfect”?
    I for one understand that He had to be without sin in order for His sacrifice to “count” - but it is His shed blood that saves me, not my attempts to live holy. My caution to you is to not let your “liberty” become “license”
    Yes, you can do what you want and God is gracious, but why would you grieve One who loves you so much?

  58. nonSGfan wrote:

    Drumming Drew, comment #12.

    I think they make a great couple.

  59. Jim2 wrote:

    I know that on the CCM side, artists are not keen to play Nashville. Partly because of poor attendance because of oversaturation, (Music acts in general, not just Christian) and also because of all the free tickets given to “industry types” who oftentimes don’t show up and you have this embarassing block of empty seats in “prime” locations because something “shinier” of “flashier” popped up on the calendar.

  60. nonSGfan wrote:

    Nancy Pelosi once said “Life doesn’t begin till you take the baby home and put it in the bed”.

    Who said that? Nancy Pelosi.

  61. Edie wrote:

    So…um, let me see if I get this straight…it’s NOT okay to vote for someone who is pro-choice but it IS okay to vote for someone who doesn’t care about the children AFTER they’re born and who doesn’t have a problem sending young innocent men off to get killed in an unnecessary war. Is that right?

    I’m sorry, I’m just not seeing Jesus really on either side here.

  62. NoNameNashvilleMan wrote:

    In reference to the EHSS concert here in Nashville, ask Ringo Starr about sellin’ out too! He has played the Ryman here and didn’t sell it out either. Also, it should be noted that Two Rivers is going through their own stuff so their crowd’s are probably suffering.

    What I be tryin’ to say is dis: It’s harrrrrrrrrrrrrrd to play Nashville!!!!! Hardly ANYONE sells out here…Miley Cyrus did though - ha!

    By the way, I think I know the real Ernie as I’ve spent time with him OFF stage and I like the guy - a lot! To me, he’s been a real class act!

  63. Irishlad wrote:

    #45Disrepectable in your eyes perhaps, however i doubt if Jesus would have stood on such ceremonies, he was too busy’going about his Father’s business’.PC correctness hadn’t been invented then.

  64. Radioguy wrote:

    If Ernie is different in everyday life than on stage, that’s not a bad thing unless he is a crook. If he were a crook, it’s doubtful he would’ve last 10 years with the Cathedrals. Many artists are very different off stage than in person…not just in SGM. So why are you people attacking him unless he has some big immoral secret whic should keep him off of a gospel stage or the platform of a church.

  65. SGfan wrote:

    “However if Jesus the man came storming into their lives ‘eating and drinking’they’d be shocked off of their sanctimonious cloud nine.”

    The problem is you can’t separate Jesus’s humanity and His divinity. By the way, Bible is always capitalized. What does that have to do with conservative of liberal, by the way? Are you saying that conservatives try to reflect Jesus in their lives and liberals don’t?

  66. CVH wrote:

    This thread has outlived its usefulness but for what it’s worth, I have to believe that as Irishlad suggests, Jesus in our day would no more be aligned with a political affiliation than He was in His time on earth. And those who project their values on Him and claim Him for their own (both liberals and conservatives but especially it seems Republicans and the religious right) commit a grievous error. Their arrogant assumptions and self-righteous projections put forth a Jesus that has little to do with what the heart of the gospel is about. Their willful ignorance is no less a sin than that which they accuse liberals of doing and it is surpassed only by their audacity in doing it.

  67. Scott wrote:

    anyone know if Kirk Talley is still not gay?

  68. Sissey wrote:

    #67 What don’t you contact Kirk and ask him yourself?

    #67- Why don’t you contact Kirk with this question instead of bringing it to the blog? No one can answer this question except Kirk.

  69. Rod wrote:

    Cynical One, Edie, CVH:

    Ask the Iraqi’s if this war was merited…You want to call republicans “war mongering”? If we didn’t step in who would? I do not agree with the war any more than you but I do think the democracy of this planet has to rest on someone’s shoulders…Sadaam was an evil man that had to go…You guys watch way too many media outlets to know what you’re talking about…Ask the guys with the “boots on the ground”. Ask the missionary’s who now have access to Iraq. They will tell you how appreciative those people are to AMERICA for helping them get away from the tyranny…The liberals and the media want us to think otherwise and that my friends is a LIE…America was built on freedom and we have always defended those freedoms…Here and abroad…No one else seems to have the guts to do it. Again I believe both parties are self serving but as a patriot and Christian I decide to vote for the lesser of two evils. Again I pose the question: How can a Christian support abortion and same sex marriages? You guys want to point out the republicans and conservatives flaws and mistakes but will NOT fix our own backyard.

  70. Lynn wrote:

    I read in: (2 Chronicles 7:14 (King James Version)
    If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
    When I read in the Bible about this particular verse of Scripture I don’t know that we as Christians need to worry about our voting as much as we should worry about our praying with particular attention paid to the part about “turn from your wicked ways”. So many times we as Christians can find fault with everyone else’s way but no fault with our own way. I think Christians set themselves up on that mighty “sanctimonious cloud nine” and then we expect everyone else to follow because we are right and there is no way they could ever be right. Always try to remember when you are pointing at someone else there are three fingers pointing back at you!

  71. JE Butler wrote:

    JW#53 - I think the Dixie Echoe’s bass singer is the finest I’ve heard since George Younce. This man was a voice major in college - and it shows. I invite anyone to go to YouTube and listen to the DE’s sing “How Big Is God?” In addition to a great solo voice - he is the perfect QT bass.

    CDGuy#55 - I attended the Cathedral’s 30th anniversary reunion concert in ‘95, I think it was. The Roy Acuff Theatre at Opryland was filled to capacity. Legacy Five is sure packing in large crowds for the Memorial Day and Labor Day Celebrations also.

  72. Lynn wrote:

    I too was disappointed when I got to know the real Ernie but I have learned by reading in 2 Chronicles 7:14 (King James Version)
    If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
    When I read in the Bible about this particular verse of Scripture I don’t know that we as Christians need to worry about our voting or talking as much as we should worry about our praying with paying particular attention to; “and turn from your wicked ways”. So many times we as Christians can find fault with everyone else’s way but no fault with our own way. I think Christians set themselves up on that mighty “sanctimonious cloud nine” and then we expect everyone else to follow because we are right and there is no way anyone else could ever be right. I always try to remember when I am pointing at someone else there are three fingers pointing back at me! As with anything else if you don’t put into practice the knowledge you have gained you have wasted your time and everyone else’s!

  73. Ben Harris wrote:

    Smyrna is not Nashville, but it is 15 miles away, and for the SoGospel Awards held there about a month or so ago, it was totally packed, not a seat left anywhere. When we sang for Hermitage Hills Baptist about a year ago it was almost full, and we have been to a few others that have been well received. I drive by Two Rivers Baptist Church several times per week and I do not remember anything on the marquee concerning Ernie and Sig Sound being there. I was not even aware they had been till I read it here, and I live about 5-6 miles from the church

  74. Ben Harris wrote:

    Concerning voting left or right, for abortion, against abortion, for gay rights, against gay rights. I agree these issues should be addressed, and we as a Christian nation have for the last 12-14 years, voted strictly on what politicians have said they would do about these very issues. So, who is worse, the politico who tells you he is not about to vote against these issues, or the ones who say they will, and then somehow …don’t? Christians WAKE UP! Politics is about getting votes, from any sector it can find them, and bending the truth or out and out lying is not beyond any of them, from either side of the aisle. Christianity is not politics, God is not about politics and Jesus does not support the Republican party anymore than he does the Democrat party, or the Green Party, or the Wig Party, or even the Communist party. We as Christians have been sold a bill of goods that we have never received.

  75. Anonymity wrote:

    I have a question and it’

    What is the real Ernie Haase?

  76. Irishlad wrote:

    #65I’ll answer your Jesus’ divinity/humanity question and cons/libs trying or not trying to live like Jesus as follows:throughout the ages theologians have argued and debated Jesus’ divinity/humanity status,speculating every permutation possible,finally settling on, whither you liked it or not,but,to almost everyone’s satisfaction that he was 100% devine in human form but displaying human physical and emotional weaknesses(several biblical quots could be added here including weeping etc).That is were the problem arises for Christians trying to emulate his divinity…. It can’t be done….Outwardly of course they try, but inwardly human nature festers away hence all the secret and usually sordid sins arise, Born Again chritians often getting caught out. Why not,everyone,start off gently with Jesus’ command of treating everone the way you would yourself(paraphrase).Stop .playing God.In closing why,when someone takes an exception to a post(often one that hits home.),do they refer it to a ‘rant’ or ‘outburst’?

  77. brad wrote:

    pelosi is an idiot.

  78. Practical Fellow wrote:

    I’m not sure how politics and homosexuality come up so quickly and easily around here. What’s with all the hateful and ignorant statements?

    NonSGfan (#58) - if you’re suggesting that Tony and Kirk make a great couple - you’re an idiot. Go spread your stupidity somewhere else. Or better yet, just shut up.

    Scott (#67) - I don’t think homosexuality works like that. You don’t just turn it off and on like a switch. There can be restoration, but like any emotional and behavioral issue it takes time. Having worked with individuals striving to overcome same-sex attraction, it can diminish over time. One of the challenges to recovering from same-sex attraction? Finding people of the same gender who don’t ridicule and reject you for your same-sex attraction. Seems like that might be tough to find around here.

    Southern Gospel doesn’t have to be synonymous with hillbilly ignorance.

  79. JM wrote:

    Can we lower the spears and banners just a bit and talk like reasonable, rational Christians?

    If you haven’t realized it by now, both political parties have taken the evangelical Christian community for a ride! Their agendas are quite simple and to the point: Get the vote, regardless of what promises you need to make or stories you need to tell. It’s just that simple.

    To make it worse, they fragment the Christian community by playing to our sensitivities and vulnerabilities. Most of us oppose abortion. The majority of us oppose war. Almost all of us want to eliminate terrorism. However, some of us concede abortion to save the mother’s life or terminate a child of incest. Some believe that certain wars are “holy” and can be defended within spiritual boundries. And while most oppose terrorism, many of us do not wish to see human rights abused to bring these folks to justice. We must be honest and confess that even within the evangelical community we are decidedly of mixed minds.

    I would humbly suggest that we, as a Christian community, invest at least as much time in prayer for this election, as we will be invest in listening to the politically corrupt diatribe of two below average candidates for the presidency.

    The problems of today’s world do not demand good politicians. They neccessitate the redemptive work of Christ. We will not change the world through politics, but through sharing the story of Christ with a needy world. Not through the ballot box…not with hanging chads…not with Supreme Court decisions. But, with the gentle movement of the Holy Spirit on men and women and boys and girls…one heart at a time! Let’s be about our Father’s business!

  80. solace wrote:

    I know one thing for certain. You can agree or disagree with the war in Iraq, but it is common knowledge that liberals are against Christianity in government. Yet, they’re the first to elect Muslim Congressmen, and maybe even a President with Muslim background.

    Jesus wasn’t no Democrat. His morals are much better represented by family values, traditional marriage, sanctity of life, freedom of religion, and strict constructionist judges…all of which happen to be Republican standpoints. YOU do the math. Jesus wasn’t no Democrat.

  81. Rod wrote:

    JM: WELL SAID…ENOUGH SAID. We need not debate this after that post…Standing ovation here my friend.

  82. chickadee wrote:

    #79 great post and you made a lot of valuable points… We have to vote our conscious and do as we individually feel that GOD would have us vote… Whether we agree with each other or not… GOD gives us a choice–he doesn’t force anything on us… I took offense to the “JC” because it didn’t reflect the diety of Jesus Christ, maybe you meant no disrespect, but it came across that way…

  83. mp3guy wrote:

    I was making light of your “Euro-numbering” system - you referenced my post #46, which was about the Perry Sisters with a comment about the deity of Christ. Since your comment had nothing to do with my posting (I think you were referring to #45), I correctly termed it an outburst -a sudden intense happening- I guess we are both taking ourselves a little too seriously.
    Great post! Especially the last paragraph, that deserves a careful re-read and some prayerful thought, then application.

  84. cynical one wrote:

    JM — Thank you. You are correct, we need to be about our Father’s business, not politics.

    Most politicians are liars. Most don’t get very far on pure honesty.

    Rod — I’ve said this before on other threads, Saddam’s killing of innocent Iraqis was never mentioned as our reason for going to war. He was purported to be affiliated with Al Qeuda (sp?), and that connection has never been shown. He was supposed to have WMD, but we’ve never found them.

    Did he need to be removed from power? Yes! But his holocost-style killings was never a part of premise for this war. Why would we believe now that it was THE premise?

  85. Dean Adkins wrote:

    #80: “Jesus wasn’t no Democrat.”

    Does the double negative indicate that he was a Democrat?

  86. Jake wrote:

    I’m with Anonymity (# 75) — Some have stated here that the “real” Ernie Haase is somehow less than the Ernie Haase seen on stage. Since some have been willing to state this publicly in this forum, you need to tell us just what this “real” EH is that we need to be aware of.

  87. j-mo wrote:

    #80…you are hilarious. The absurdity of your post has given me more laughs than I’ve had in quite a while.

    “Jesus Wasn’t No Democrat”…someone needs to make a bumper sticker.

  88. Glen Asbury wrote:

    #32 and all the other Ernie Haase mudslingers:

    Newsflash: We don’t CARE!!! In case you didn’t get that message, we COULDN’T CARE LESS!!!!

    I have watched Ernie Haase and heard about him from people who know him for nearly 20 years now. Some don’t care for him at all; others think he is the greatest tenor ever and eminently worthy to walk in his father-in-law’s shoes.

    What it comes back to for most of us is this: we enjoy the music, we are moved by the lyrics or we’re simply entertained or a combination of all 3. Pure and simple.

    You can find someone who will tell a rotten story about pretty much any Christian artist out there. Maybe the gossip is true; maybe it isn’t. Most of us have lives, and Gospel music is a very pleasant diversion we enjoy from our everyday routines. EH & SSQ do it well, according to the opinion of most of us.

    More importantly, though, how are the vague accusations of ???? (not sure how to fill in the blank) in any way congruent with Scripture? If you have a valid complaint to make of immorality or ethical lack on Ernie’s part, go to him alone, then in the presence of 2 or 3 others as the Scriptures demand. If he won’t listen, take it publicly to the church. This is the Biblical path.

    We all somehow know this won’t happen, though, don’t we? Because, as with much of this sort of thing, the accusations are manifestly baseless or at worst, worth no more attention than the normal grudge would warrant. My guess is that however Ernie has offended some out there is no more egregious than anything the average human being or yes, even the average Christian, has done to accumulate a few naysayers along the way. It happens when you rise to the top.

  89. Leebob wrote:

    #79 JM Three cheers for you!!!

    Now let’s tie this thread together. (This should be fun).

    We in this country have long since quit voting on moral issues because we want to vote based on our pocket book. To trust a politician is spiritual suicide on our part because our confidence is not to be placed in man but in God. What I have seen is that somehow if we cannot gain something on our own merits then we feel that we somehow raise ourselves by taking from soneone else (whether it be freedoms, taxes , or integrity).

    Now for the real rub…my time on this site has taught me that we Christians are ABSOLUTELY no different. If we cannot attain the stature within the industry that we desire, we somehow think we can raise ourselves by attacking those who have attained. If we manage to accomplish this (reaching the same level which we rarely do in this way) we really have not raised ourselves up but have lowered our supposed “enemy” to our standing.

    I implore all Christians to take a hard look around you and realize the enemy is out there and not within your own camp. We are so busy fighting each other we cannot possibly fight the good fight that God has commanded of us.

  90. wackythinker wrote:

    Whatever happened to Doug’s directive, that we should not “include deadend debates about why conservatives/liberals are always right and conservatives/liberals are always wrong”?

    We’re not very good at following directions, are we?

  91. Seeking Info wrote:

    Anybody know anything about a Canadian group called High Valley, mainly about who distributes their stuff?

    I’m presuming Daywind since they record for a division of Word?

  92. Videoguy wrote:

    Wacky (#90),

    Political talk in this forum = the tree of knowledge of good and evil.

  93. JW wrote:

    Scott #67, “still not gay”

    Oh, man, I’ve been laughing ever since reading that. I don’t know why, but “still not gay” is now one of my new favorite phrases. I guess it reminds me of the ancient “Francisco Franco is still dead” line.

    I’m conservative, but I never trust any politician, and yes, even the so called conservative ones. How many “conservatives” have been outed as not “still not gay”, or multi-adulterers, or other crimes? No, I’m not liberal, far, far from it, but buyer beware in politics.

    BTW, there’s another JW here now! I’m the other one…but, if the other JW is smarter I’ll take credit.

  94. Sam wrote:

    So, is it true that KJV-ONLY types are brainwashed into alienating other Christians who read various translations and versions?

  95. NonSGfan wrote:

    misc. quote…

    “life doesn’t begin till you take the baby home and put it in the crib”.

    -Nancy Pelosi

  96. cynical one wrote:

    Interesting quote:

    Because true conservatives are pessimists, they are happier than liberals, for three reasons. First, pessimists are rarely surprised. Second, when they are wrong they are delighted to be so. Third, pessimists do not put their faith in princes – in government. They understand that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. Happiness is an activity; it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.

    – George F. Will
    Pulitzer Prize–winning author and columnist

  97. cdguy wrote:

    Seeking #91 - First, Daywind doesn’t “record for a division of Word”. Some of their product used to be distributed by both Word and New Day Christian Distributors.

    Second, in response to your question, I don’t think that group has any distribution here in the States. Probably only available directly from the group.

    Hope this helps.

  98. Michael Davis wrote:

    It seems to be in fashion to bash Ernie Haase on this thread. As one who has known Ernie for many years, I can assure you he is a man of character and integrity. You may not like something about his singing or his success but please be fair when describing him as one who is one thing on stage and another thing off stage. Please do not be tempted to jump on the negative bandwagon especially if you do not know him.

    My suggestion to anyone who has a beef with Ernie….do the Christian thing and discuss it with him. I am sure he will be kind and listen to your concerns.

    Ernie is a fine Christian man and I am glad to call him my friend.

  99. Anonymity wrote:

    #98-Sorry for trying to stir up people’s curiosity…I just wanted to know if he were real or fake.

  100. Stir it up wrote:

    1. Ernie Haase treats people well and is a smart businessman. He also tries to improve his craft - and that’s more than can be said for far too much of the SG genre.

    2. I’d wager that 75% of the people who post on this blog and call themselves Democrats are doing so because they grew up in the South; their Dads, Granddads, and Great Granddads wore that label; and they currently hate George Bush (although he’s very much like their patron saint FDR). That’s about the extent of the ideological depth demonstrated.

  101. SGfan wrote:


    Staying away from politics, here is the major thing that is wrong with post # 76. You make the statement, “That is were the problem arises for Christians trying to emulate his divinity…. It can’t be done….Outwardly of course they try, but inwardly human nature festers away hence all the secret and usually sordid sins arise, Born Again chritians often getting caught out.” I would submit to you that first, Christians are supposed to die to self, “not I that live but Christ who lives within me.” You see, Christians (note the correct spelling) should not have to try to emulate Christ, rather Christ reveals Himself through us. There are issues where the flesh gets in the way, but the flesh is not who should be in charge inwardly. If the flesh is in charge inwardly as you suggest, then where is Christ in the mix and how are you a Christian? There are many problems with your post, but that is the major one. I will not begin to talk about the grammatical issues, mispellings, and yes we disagree politically it looks like. I do believe, however, that you would benefit from studying the Word a little more to show yourself approved. Instead of making statements that seem to make sense to you, know what the Bible (God’s Word) has to say about it. Assumptions will always come back to bite you in the you know where.

  102. Alan wrote:

    I have to jump in here. Some of the back and forth about Ernie Haase bothers me. I don’t know Ernie; I’ve shaken his hand a time or two and that’s it. I’ve heard him sing magnificently, both live and recorded. It’s just way too easy to throw out a statement about him being “two different people” on a site like this. Also, it’s just flat wrong, Scripturally. Anyone who lives in front of the public will have their inevitable detractors. It comes with the turf, and frankly, about 95% of it is nothing more than jealousy. I happen to be one who likes listening to them more than I like watching their performance, but that’s just me. But, none of us will answer for those men. We’re all responsible for ourselves, period. I have to completely agree - if anyone has an issue with Ernie or any other public Christian, take it up with them, in person, and not on a forum like this. Just imagine, some of you, how much you’d enjoy reading the stuff about yourself that some have written here? Just how powerless would you feel? It stinks.

    A final thought on the whole political discussion, which I personally think has been fascinating. Please don’t let us ever forget that you can never legislate morality. Also, our purpose as believers isn’t to try to change a doomed society; our only goal should be to spread the only message that will.

  103. JW--the other one wrote:

    Change of subject— Anyone know anything about Guy Penrod’s solo album that was supposed to be in the works?

    Also… Has anyone heard the new Florida Boys? If so, how do they sound?

    I dont have much to say in the EHSS debate… I truly enjoy most of their music… I have to say I personally enjoyed the Garry Jones era group more…however, the current group is still musically worthy of comment.

    I have no problem with Ernies methods for gaining success…. I am sure we have all come off the wrong way to others before…in the attempt to “make it” or find success…… However, I do not know him personally, so I cannot judge… All I know is at face value he seems to be a class act..who knows how to sell his group…whether they are singing with stacks or singing with a piano…..he sells them.
    I respect that.


  104. chickadee wrote:

    I personally like EHSS too… I like their sound and whether Ernie is “real” or not is between him and the good Lord… If you know something about him or any artists what you need to do is pray GOD’S convicting spirit over them… Let the Master handle it… If there is something wrong with him, I don’t want to know it… I just enjoy what I see and hear…I know that someone that I do care about has been accused of many things, but that doesn’t make them true..

  105. mariehardy5733 wrote:

    Cynical guy, that’s an appropriate name for you. Cynics generally don’t believe much of anything. That may not be you but I do feel sorry for cynics. They tend to doubt when faith would be the proper perspective. When I say slaughtering the innocent I mean killing babies. The Dems are quite comfortable with that without a doubt. Maybe you are too. As far as the Republicans slaughtering anyone, I don’t know any Republicans who participate in killing. Ted Kennedy had a problem with Mary Jo Kopekne as he left her to drown in his submerged car. If you are referring to Iraq, it is a fact that Saddam slaughtered tens of thousands of innocents who happened to disagree with him. He was a modern day Hitler. Would you have left him in power and allowed thousands more to die at his hands? Just last week, the WMD’s that the MSM says Saddam didn’t have, were delivered to Canada for use in their nuclear power plants. I believe they said 550 metric tons of yellow cake uranium. Enough to make over one hundren nuclear bombs. Those WMD’s that Saddam didn’t have would eventually have been used on Israel. Our brave soldiers took Saddam out, Al Queda has been decimated, and freedom is alive in Iraq finally. Yes, innocents are killed by soldiers in all wars. Do you think our soldiers set out to kill innocent people? Our soldiers set out to engage the enemy but the enemy hid behind civilians, in their houses and shot at our soldiers in hopes they would engage them and innocents would be killed.
    I think if you would look at Iraq and it’s citizens today, they would say “thank you” to Pres Bush for freeing us. Everyone deserves a chance at freedom, don’t you think? I would imagine you would be more appreciative if you had lived under the iron hand of Saddam Hussein and American soldiers had liberated you.

  106. Zack wrote:

    Heard the new FL. boys. Not too bad, Not too great. Just a simple sound to me. Charlie doesn’t sing parts, so it sounded alot like the same thing over and over to be honest…I don’t figure anything will ever be the same as ole les, glenn, and darrell. But i’m just one man’s opinion…Check them out for your self! Just because It wasn’t my cup of tea doesn’t mean you won’t like it. Here is the link to their myspace page. They have 2 songs on there from their cd.

  107. Hello? wrote:

    #102 Alan said:
    “Please don’t let us ever forget that you can never legislate morality.”

    That’s a disturbing and dangerous phrase as it stands.

    I think what you meant to say (as evidenced by the sentences that followed) was that you cannot legislate a change in someone’s heart. Absolutely true.

    But every day our government legislates morality when it comes to putting restrictions on individual behavior as it affects the greater community. Obviously, the Ten Commandments are the basis for many laws; otherwise murder and theft would be left untouched in our society.

    A growing concern of mine is where the government chooses to label something minor as moral or immoral — such as setting a thermostat at a certain level (at issue in California) or using the “wrong” kind of light bulb (goes into effect 2012). Laws based solely on the latest whim and knowledge of climate change legalists will not stand the test of time.

    Our society has lost the meaning of the words “moral” and “immoral” because the words are based not on the timeless safety and simplicity of God’s law, but on man’s ever-changing value system — and his worship of created things rather than the Creator, and specifically, worship of himself and his own crumbling intellect.

  108. Glenn wrote:

    SG Fan, #101

    This may be the longest we have ever gone without the I’m a better Christian than you are” discussion.

  109. Irishlad wrote:

    #101 You’re clutching at straws SG,chritians was a typo, it was spelt correctly at the begining of the post.As for bad grammar,it was plain English and you understood everyword.

  110. Alan wrote:

    Hello? #107

    I’m sorry that you felt that one sentence was dangerous. I don’t at all. And, you did get what I meant in saying it. God can - and has - legislated morality indeed, with the Ten Commandments, the Law, and in the apostle’s doctrine. The Lord Jesus also legislated it in many of the Gospels. These commands, if they are followed, lead to moral society.

    Governments can pass any laws that they wish to, but does it translate to moral behavior? My point was, and is, that morality doesn’t come from human government. It can only come from the change in a human heart after a person has been saved from the power and penalty of sin. Having said that, all of us have a conscience, which I believe is a gift from God. The majority of people, Christians or not, abide by most of the laws of the land. (except when they get behind the wheel of their cars. lol) And, I believe that most rational people realize that laws are to protect society, and not to punish it.

    Woven into this discussion, and the last one that gravitated to politics, is this: if a government purposely legislates immorality into law, as Christians, how can we condone that?

    Sorry for the confusion, and I hope that what I meant is clearer now. All I meant to say was that true morality can’t come from the laws of any government of man.

  111. Jake wrote:

    Alan (# 102) — I agree with what you said about Ernie Haase. A number of people have used this forum to bash him, usually with inuendos, not facts. He answers to God, not us.

    However, as to your statement that “you can’t legislate morality” — what about the Ten Commandments? God legislated morality at Mt. Sinai.

  112. JW, the judgemental wrote:

    Government does indeed legislate morality, as it should. The problem is government has redefined morality and now morality is subjective for most people. Reminds me of the Judges period in the Bible, the people lived as they saw fit.

    I saw a great bumper sticker yesterday, “If it’s not a baby, then you aren’t pregnant.”

    As for Ernie Haas, if you’re not going to be specific I don’t think you should bring up him “not being real.”

    Personally, I like Haas’ music and act.

  113. Leebob wrote:

    Interesting that we “cannot legislate morality” because a person has a right to do with their body as they choose but I cannot drive two blocks without my seatbelt on.

  114. cynical one wrote:

    Marie, you’re drinking the Kool-aid.

    Bush’s premise for this war was that Saddam was connected to the 9/11 attacks and had WMD’s. That connection has been proven to be a lie. And (I may be wrong here) I don’t believe that line that the WMD’s were just now found and delivered to Canada. Why did it take us 6 years to find them? Why was that not reported in the news? Can you give me a source to back that up?

    I do agree that Saddam’s Hitler-like slaughtering needed to be stopped. But that was not the premise Bush used for invading.

    And Al Queda was not in Iraq until AFTER we invaded.

    Killing of the innocent is still killing of the innocent, whether it’s abortion, holocaust, Saddam, or American soldiers in a fallacy-riddled war. I don’t see much difference.

    And by the way, I do oppose abortion. I also oppose our invasion of Iraq under false pretences. If the real reason to invade Iraq was to stop Saddam’s killing of the innocent, why were we not told that BEFORE the invasion?

  115. Sam wrote:

    when God legislated morality with the 10 commandments, it was a Theocracy.

    We live in a Democracy.

    There is a difference.

  116. Alan wrote:

    Hopefully it’s just that my comment was “awaiting moderation” when several of you responded. One last time, I’ll try to explain. In my mind, we actually agree.

    Jake, #111, we agree. Governments aren’t the ones who legislate morality in my mind. God has, and He still does. The most that a government can hope for is to pass laws that uphold God’s laws of morality. The sad thing is when they obey the will of the people and pass laws that allow immorality.

    JW, #112. You actually illustrated what I tried to say. The moral relativism today perfectly illustrates why mankind - and a government of human beings - cannot in fact legislate morality. Again, those are God’s unchangeable laws. Persons in authority can govern morally, and pass laws that obey GOD’S moral laws. There is a difference. My entire point is that true morality is from God. No matter how many wonderful laws any government passes, not one of them will make a person moral in the sight of God.

    #113, Leebob: You also illustrate what I tried to say. I must have really been clumsy or incomplete in what I wrote. For that, I apologize.

    Please don’t miss what my main point was to have been, okay? Our main job is not to try to change a doomed planet, but rather, to live and proclaim the only message that can bring true change. This certainly doesn’t allow us to ignore being good law-abiding citizens, who try to be an asset, and make a difference while we’re here. In fact, the more we live like God wanted us to, the more weight our message will carry.

  117. SGfan wrote:

    Glenn post #108

    “This may be the longest we have ever gone without the I’m a better Christian than you are” discussion.”

    I agree. I don’t think we should get bogged down in that type of argument either. I do however think people should actually know the Word of God before they make such assumptions as Irishlad did. I do not consider myself better than any other Christian on this board, however I am a Christian and I do know the Word of God. I do study to show myself approved. I hope that maybe my post would caution and encourage others to do the same.

    Irishlad #109,

    “#101 You’re clutching at straws SG,chritians was a typo, it was spelt correctly at the begining of the post.As for bad grammar,it was plain English and you understood everyword.”

    It was incorrect English to be specific just like this new post and the mispelling of “spelled”, but that is beside the point. If I upset you by pointing out obvious grammatical issues, then I apologize. If I upset you because I pointed you to an area where you are wrong theologically (not thinking things through before you post or not having a clue about what your talking about, whichever the case may be) then I hope it will encourage you to get back into the Word. Hopefully it will help you to grow.

  118. Leebob wrote:

    Alan, to further illustrate your point at which I agree, I may be mistaken but there is a law on the books that you cannot kill yet look at our murder rate. Abundantly stated, the law has been legislated but the law cannot make someone moral. Sometimes a little illustration goes a long way for the dumbed down american.

    That having been said, the government’s responsibility, according to what God has ordained, is to make and enforce laws that uphold His Truth. Those governments that have ceased to uphold His Truth have slowly crumbled and ceased to exist. For the nay-sayers of what I just said, will all government not cease to exist when the Prince of Peace returns to rule and reign?

  119. Neil Enloe wrote:

    In 2004, DAVE, DUANE & NEIL (formerly The Couriers) were recording the vocals for an album in Nashville at The Sound Kitchen studio. Having been a friend of Ernie Haase for many years, I found it interesting that EHSS was recording in another room of the same complex.

    Before our session began, in walked Ernie and his baritone singer, Doug Anderson. After exchanging pleasantries, Ernie asked if he and Doug could pray with us and ask God’s blessing on the project. So we all joined hands in a circle and dedicated our combined efforts to the praise and glory of our Lord Jesus.

    Shortly before his death, Ernie’s father-in-law, George Younce told me that Ernie testifies of God’s goodness and leads people to the Lord in restaurants and other public places.

    A man of prayer and personal witnessing can’t be having another life on the side or off stage. I believe in the only Ernie Haase there is, the one we all know and love. He’s a man of integrity and Godly character.

  120. Leebob wrote:

    SPECIAL BULLETIN ALERT…Harry Peters is at it again on the “Heaven is getting crowded” blog.

  121. CVH wrote:

    RE: mariehardy5733’s comment (#105), they say that inside every cynic is a disillusioned idealist.

  122. Hello? wrote:

    Sam #115:
    Every government — theocracy or democracy or whatever — has laws that encourage moral choices, actions, behavior.

    Moral beliefs held in the heart are a different issue. Moral behavior is always incentivized by public laws that punish the opposite.

    If I’m misinterpreting your take, feel free to clarify.

  123. Alan wrote:

    Leebob - #118 - We agree. My thoughts are really based on Galatians 2:16 - “We know that a man is not justified by the works of the Law, but by faith in Jesus Christ.” I take justification as a “declared righteousness”. So, if even the Law of Moses couldn’t declare an individual as righteous by keeping them, then the laws of any nation sure can’t make anyone righteous. This was what made me say that we can’t legislate morality.

    As for the Ernie Haase talk, when a man of the stature of Neil Enloe wrote what he did (#119), may the kind of cowardice that we’ve read end. That was a concise and wonderful endorsement of character from one of the most-respected men in the history of sgm.

  124. Irishlad wrote:

    #117SGfan. Hate to burst your grammatical bubble,but,spelt and spelled are both past tense&past participles.Both could have been correctly used.Helpful to get your facts right before you start giving English lessons.That done you can then start your Religious Studies class. As JD used to say’I can’t wait!’.

  125. cynical one wrote:

    Leebob — I’m not sure I like the phrase “legislate morality”, but I agree with your point.

    It would be interesting to know whether there are any more legal abortions than there were illegal. I don’t think many doctors who are willing to perform legal abortions were above doing them illegally.

    And any woman who wanted one when it was illegal probably found a way. Maybe the lesser of the evils is to have regulation. Kinda like booze & prohibition.

  126. buttercup wrote:

    “not so much a debate as manifesto on the installment plan.” That is RICH - and one more reason why we keep coming back!

  127. not a grammarian wrote:

    kinda like “smelt” and “smelled”?

  128. SGfan wrote:

    #124 Irishlad,

    I stand corrected. I will admit when I make a mistake, which is more than I can say for many. Spelt can be used in place of spelled in certain instances. However, that does not change the lack of validity in your arguments. If I were giving you an English lesson, I would point out the lack of comma usage in areas that should have them as well as lack of spacing between sentences. As to a Religious Studies class, “been there, done that”. Seems you need to go enroll in one of those yourself. Let me recommend an entry level class on the basics before you start pursuing Hermeneutics. Your posts have provided no Biblical proof to back up your theological positions and have been no more than the wild rambling of a person who has no clue what the Word of God says and is just looking for any justification to back up his own political views. Again, if you are upset because I point out issues of grammar, sorry. If you are upset because I point out the inadequacy of your knowledge in areas of Biblical understanding, then study more. I can’t help it if you choose to remain ignorant in that area.

    One of your original arguments was that Jesus would have no problem voting for a democrat judging by those He hung around with. The problem with that is that He did not support their sin, but He did change their lives. If you want to be a reflection of Jesus in a lost and dying world, you love people. You love them inspite of their sin. You point them to a God that can change their life. You don’t vote to support their flawed ideology.

    The things I took issue with you on were far more than just grammatical knowledge. I took issue with your feeble attempts at Biblical interpretation and the use of those attempts to support your political viewpoint. I guess I hate to burst your bubble. If you want to discuss those issues, great. If you just want to continue to go back and forth about who knows more about grammar or the Bible, then I am wasting my time. Anyone who looks at our posts will know the answer to that last implied question.

  129. Rhonda wrote:

    Before I tell this story, I want to say up front that I am totally against abortion and will do all that I can to prevent a woman from getting one whenever I have that opportunity.
    This is a comment about what cynical one had to say in post #125. He is right to bring up that question so that we have a complete perspective on this.

    My great grandmother lived in the early part of the 20th century. She died at about the age of 30 on Dec 26, 1916. Cause of death? Attempting to self-induce an abortion. She was pregnant with her fourth child. She didn’t want another one and saw no other way out. We know this from her diary and from the eyewitness reports of her three kids who saw her (in effect) commit suicide. Why she did this has remained a mystery.

    The point is that whether it is legal or illegal the ones who want it will find a way to do it. By making it legal we took it out of the homes and back alleys and brought it into the open, but the moral issue is still the same. The sanctity and respect for life that many (and obviously my great-grandmother as well) do not have. Today we have the ability to destroy life or attempt to create it. Some do it for convenience, some do it out of desperation. They (like my great-grandmother) think they do not have any other options.

    The failure isn’t just in the law being there or not being there. The failure is ours. We are not willing to make a serious attempt to touch the desperate people where they need it. We would rather sit in our ivory towers and gripe about the law or lack thereof. We would rather debate whether abortion or war is worse.

    As much as I would love to say abortion was ended and would never happen again, that would not be realistic. But when we all come down and touch people at the point of their need and stop making them feel guilty-piling guilt on top of guilt-losing them for the Kingdom of God in the process-then we can start to make a dent in this particular murder rate.

  130. Scott wrote:

    yes, but is Kirk Talley still not gay?

  131. sockpuppet wrote:

    What is your deal? Are you looking to hook up? Trying to get a little blackmail $$$? I have no idea, but it would be between him and God, not him and anyone else.
    Try praying for the man every time you want to write something mean, that way maybe God will give him strength to fight his battle and you’ll be reminded that it is our duty to encourage and strengthen our brother, not to shoot the wounded.

  132. Irishlad wrote:

    #128SGfan. Just remember you started the bad grammar issue. I admit the sentence structure could have been better,but i don’t draft, plus i use a cell phone without a spell check so i’m hardly illiterate.I took issue because i felt you were criticizing my writing in an effort to deflect from the point i was making.Moving on: you take the Bible literally,ok that’s fine. As far as your concerned the Bible answers its own questions ,you don’t even have to think about it. To me that’s easy. I don’t, and believe me that’s a lot harder. Bit like the Death penalty,easy to sit back and say’yea fry ‘em all. A lot harder to thoughtfully oppose it. You and me my friend are, as the good book says,’as far apart as the East is from the West’.

  133. Alan wrote:

    As a disclaimer, Irishlad and I have traded a few private e-mails. I wanted to respond to his post #132 privately, but I-lad, since you wrote what you just did publicly, I’ll respond in kind. Fair deal? And this won’t be about grammar.

    A lot of born-again believers choose to take the Bible literally, yes. I’m one of them. I’ve chosen to do so because of verses like this, II Timothy 3: 16 - “All Scripture is given by the inspiration of God, (literally meaning “God-breathed”) and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteous living….” Being a Christian does not mean that we have to sacrifice education, nor does it mean that we must tie our brains behind our backs and accept everything in blind faith. Rather, the more we study the Bible as God’s Word, the more we recognize His wisdom and our lack thereof. As His Ten Commandments weren’t merely suggestions, the entire body of doctrine in the Bible was written and is still meant to be believed and followed. If indeed you’ve accepted Christ as your Savior, you surely won’t be the first Christian to challenge the veracity of the Bible, nor will you be the last. But, if you persevere reading and studying what is actually written, like a long line of people before you, you’ll finally come to realize that it’s fundamentally sound and will survive any test that you put it to. Hopefully at the end of your questioning journey, you’ll emerge as a stronger believer. But, there’s always the chance that our own misconceptions will color the teachings that are there. I pray that you’ll be the former and not the latter.

    Your last clause - while taken out of its context - thrills me. For, as far as the east is from the west was written concerning my sin and God’s ability to still view them after the blood of Christ has been applied. He Who cannot ever forget has made a willing and conscious choice to remember them no more; He’s buried them in the depths of the sea, and they’re now as far apart as the east is from the west. Thank God! Note that He didn’t say as far as north is from the south…those poles meet. But east and west are diametrically opposite. Just another “little” thrilling point tucked in a Bible that stands every test that we poor finite human beings dare to put it to. Best wishes…

  134. cynical one wrote:

    I think I’ll run for Dictator in 2012. Who’s on my bandwagon?

  135. miloandotis wrote:

    I just read on the SN website that Naomi Sego plans to keep her group alive and on the road. Praise the Lord! Thought Naomi and the Segos were doing the farewell thing?? Wasn’t there a final project (and related publicity) just released by Vine Records? Seems like bad taste to me to keep on going when you’ve said you’re bowing out. Does anyone remember the classy way the Cathedrals did this?? But when it comes to class and taste, the Segos seem to lack in both areas.

  136. SGfan wrote:

    Alan # 133

    Glad to see someone else who seems to understand what their reading in the Bible. Like you, I can only hope and pray that Irishlad and people like him come to realize that the Bible is God’s written Word. God is perfect, so therefor His Word is perfect. Its ok to ask questions and to seek understanding. That is what we are supposed to do when studying the Bible. It is not ok to just choose which scriptures we like and throw away the ones we find hard to deal with. It is not ok to take one or two scriptures and twist them out of context to make our own viewpoint, which is the product of a fallible human being, have a sense of validity.

    Yes I do take God at His Word literally. But there is so much more than that, I research, and learn the themes of scripture. Not every situation in today’s world is represented exactly in the Bible. However, every answer for those situations is there. If you study the Bible you begin to understand (although that understanding is limited) the very nature of God. Not only that, you begin to allow His spirit that is inside you to manifest itself more than the flesh. That is part of the “dying to self” process. In that process, you learn that God never contradicts Himself. Therefor, the life you live in the spirit can not contradict the Word. Does that mean you will not make mistakes? No, the flesh is still present. I tell you what I’ll do. I’ll pray that God will reveal Himself to you in ways you never expected. I’ll also ask you to crack open the Bible and start reading His Word and allowing Him to speak to you through It.

  137. cdguy wrote:

    miloandotis — Yes, there is a new cd from Naomi & The Segos — HAPPY ENDING. It is shipping to stores now. There was discussion a few weeks ago about some controversy about the use of the Sego name, involving 2 former members of Naomi’s group. I think that got settled.

    I also think Naomi’s on her 3rd annual Farewell Tour, now.

  138. DJ Phil wrote:

    #134 cynical one, I’m all for it!! I’ll even help you pack for Cuba!!

  139. Leebob wrote:

    #132 Irishlad - I take great exception to your premise that if we take the Scripture literally then we are somehow non-thinking imbeciles mindlessly following marching orders. If you know anything about the Word you know that we were created with the ability to think rationally and choose from our own will whether to believe or not and then whether we will follow His Word or not. I took a very long time to come to the conclusion that The Scripture is in fact His inerrant Word and Jesus Christ is the Word made flesh. I choose to believe His Word, and as much as humanly possible, discern His will for my life and follow that which is known. It takes a great deal of effort on my (or anyone else who chooses this path) part to seek His will and direction through prayer, searching of scripture, and understanding of circumstances.

    I admire those who have somehow managed to muster up faith in someone or something that is not bigger than oursleves that could create this universe out of nothing. This inspite of the fact that the very laws that our evolutionists friends espouse (that things are evolving for the better) are contradicted every day as man makes chas out of order.

    This is a far greater issue than what style of music, what’s yoru favorite color, or what political party you align yourself with. This is the VERY CORE of our beliefs and if we let this go then we have list everything.

  140. Irishlad wrote:

    #Alan,SGfan and Leebob.The ‘Word’ as you often and fondly quot(usually from the New Testament) was mostly the work of that venerable wordsmith,part-time philosopher and sometime tentmaker, Paul.Try to convice me that his words were anymore God inspired than the chap who wrote ‘The Shack’. Strikes me the folks out there who spontaneously act and live like Jesus probably wouldn’t know one end of the Bible from the other.The most effective Christians, i would think, don’t spend their time pondering the Bible and ‘approving’ themselves.They’re to busy at the coal face.(just an other rant)

  141. solace wrote:

    NOTE TO ALL COCKY DEMOCRATS: get your facts straight or shut up. This link is just one of many sources confirming that the 550 metric tons of SADDAM’s uranium were moved to Canada under secret OP last week.

    Some people have the acute ability of making their memory spans and intelligence levels look amazingly short and low by believing all the Bush-bashing liberals.

    Be thankful that you’re safe. No President is perfect, but you’re still safe. That alone is worthy of applause.

    If he has done nothing else in his 8 years, Bush has (1) not had any more successful attacks since 9/11, and (2) appointed Roberts and Alito to the Supreme Court.

    Both of those accomplishments will go down in history.

  142. cynical one wrote:

    Solace — yeah, but there was that one series of successful attacks on 9/11 under Bush’s watch.


  143. Leebob wrote:

    Irishlad - How can you possibly argue Scripture when you don’t even hold to it as Truth? Even in high school debate, the two sides had to AGREE on the source of truth. Therefore, all comments by you in regards to the Word or the Truth are hereby null and void. I will let the Scripture do it’s own defense.

    13 But evil men and impostors will grow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. 14 But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, 15 and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
    16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

  144. Scott Spangler wrote:

    RE: #135 & 137,
    Yes, there was publicity that went out saying Naomi was retiring and that Happy Ending was to be her final project. However, as Naomi has personally told me, she still feels that the Lord still has a work for her to do, and as long as her health will allow, she wants to be out there each week singing to God’s people.

    She harbors no ill will to her 2 recently departed group members and wishes them nothing but luck in their future endeavors.

    As for recent rumors that have surfaced that her mind is slipping and she’s forgetting words to songs, all I can say is that since I’ve been helping her out again, I have forgotten words to past songs recently and SHE HAS BEEN FEEDING ME WORDS TO SONGS!

    Why don’t we just settle this all by saying that Naomi is 77 years old and if she still wants to go out and sing, then bless God, let her live what final years the Lord has in store for her with dignity and let her do what she loves doing. She is a treasure in gospel music and I’m honored that I’m with her again helping her do what she loves and is called to do.

  145. SGfan wrote:


    Just as I figured. If you doubt or reject the Word of God, then you doubt or reject Christianity and God Himself. If you do not believe the Word of God or reject the word of God, then how can you call yourself a Christian? In the end, we don’t have to convince you that the Bible is God inspired. If you actually read it and comprehend it, it’ll do its own convincing. By the way, the most effective Christians are those who know and understand God’s Word so they are able to live It and reflect It to a lost and dying world. So, the most effective Christians are those that study, reflect, and live God’s Word, not someone who rejects its teachings or believes its just the the “work of that venerable wordsmith,part-time philosopher and sometime tentmaker, Paul.” I believe that is how you put it.

  146. JW, the judgemental wrote:

    Irishlad, #140, “Try to convice me that his words were anymore God inspired than the chap who wrote ‘The Shack’.”

    This is probably futile since you don’t believe The Word, but in answer…

    Paul’s words were good enough for the Apostle Peter.

    2 Peter 15, “…just as our dear brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom that God gave him.”

    Then, when Paul met the church leaders at Jerusalem they gave him the handshake of friendship.

    Naturally, I’m basing this on The Word as God’s Word. But, if you don’t trust The Bible, I’ll reply as to a non believer as I don’t expect a non believer to take The Bible as scripture.

    As for non-thinking Christians, I agree, Blaise Pascal, Michael Farraday, and dullards such as Sir Isaac Newton just didn’t use their minds…dummies!

  147. Joe wrote:


    The “venerable wordsmith/part-time philosopher/sometime tentmaker”, as you call Paul, also wrote these words:

    “The things that I write ARE the commandment of the Lord”.

    Do you really think the God of eternity would commission and inspire William Young to write blasphemy?

    As LeeBob has just written, and challenged you- if you do not hold to the total infallibility of Scripture as the inspired and unerring word of God, then you have no dog in this hunt.

    You have cut your feet right out from underneath yourself, sir.

    If you can doubt Scripture, then you have no faith or hope in anything. Either it is enough to stake your eternity upon, or it is no better than “The Shack”.

    And if this is really how you feel, you have my utmost sympathy.

  148. brad wrote:

    i agree.

  149. thom wrote:

    Boy oh boy - reading this thread assures me that I haven’t missed anything by not participating in it! yikes.

    So - in other words….there is nothing going on in the SG world?