Comments on: A mountain out of a Hemphill http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/ Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music Wed, 23 May 2012 16:31:50 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: james http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-1295432 james Sun, 28 Nov 2010 16:15:51 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-1295432 I now see Joel Hemphill's material denying the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ on 4 anti-Deity of Christ sites. One is a former high ranking leader with The Way International. Another Southern Gospel artist who also denies the Deity of Christ, and the Holy Trinity, is Jerry Bennett. He is on one of the anti-Deity of Christ sites, along with Joel. It's not hard to see where Jerry is coming from. Just read his statement of faith. It's only 3 lines. How these artists can perform concerts in Christian churches, while denying the Deity of the savior they sing about is a real shame. If you really want to know what Joel teaches about our Lord Jesus, you don't have to buy his book, you can go to your local kingdom hall of JW'sS, and read for free where Joel and Jerry are coming from. Matter of fact at least the JW's believe in the pre-existance of Jesus(even thought is's unorthodox), Joel and Jerry do not. If both of these artists would inform pastors, and leaders where they stood on the nature of jesus, they would not be getting into Evangelical churches as easily. I now see Joel Hemphill’s material denying the Deity of our Lord Jesus Christ on 4 anti-Deity of Christ sites. One is a former high ranking leader with The Way International. Another Southern Gospel artist who also denies the Deity of Christ, and the Holy Trinity, is Jerry Bennett. He is on one of the anti-Deity of Christ sites, along with Joel. It’s not hard to see where Jerry is coming from. Just read his statement of faith. It’s only 3 lines. How these artists can perform concerts in Christian churches, while denying the Deity of the savior they sing about is a real shame. If you really want to know what Joel teaches about our Lord Jesus, you don’t have to buy his book, you can go to your local kingdom hall of JW’sS, and read for free where Joel and Jerry are coming from. Matter of fact at least the JW’s believe in the pre-existance of Jesus(even thought is’s unorthodox), Joel and Jerry do not. If both of these artists would inform pastors, and leaders where they stood on the nature of jesus, they would not be getting into Evangelical churches as easily.

]]> By: Servetus http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-976478 Servetus Mon, 10 Aug 2009 20:06:30 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-976478 Joel Hemphill is exactly right. Jesus never claimed to be God. He told people he was the way to the Father, who is the only God. See John 17.3; Eph 4.6; 1 Cor 8.6. And see my new book on it, The Restitution of Jesus Christ (2008), available at my webiste--servetustheevangelical.com. This book may be the most formidable, biblically in-depth book to ever challenge the church dogma that Jesus is God. Joel Hemphill is exactly right. Jesus never claimed to be God. He told people he was the way to the Father, who is the only God. See John 17.3; Eph 4.6; 1 Cor 8.6. And see my new book on it, The Restitution of Jesus Christ (2008), available at my webiste–servetustheevangelical.com. This book may be the most formidable, biblically in-depth book to ever challenge the church dogma that Jesus is God.

]]> By: Robin http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-974076 Robin Fri, 07 Aug 2009 03:02:20 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-974076 Joel Hemphill is right on the money. The trinitarian doctrine was a post biblical invention that was forced into doctrine through the Nicene and Chalcedonian councils of the 4th century. Neither Jesus, the apostles, or the new testament church ever believed that Jesus was a pre-existent member of an eternal godhead. There are hundereds of new testament verses alone that are very clear about this, and only a few grammatically ambiguous and misinterpreted/translated texts to the contrary. Hopefully Joel will stir up some folks to blow the dust off their bibles and quit trusting in greek philosophy and traditions of men for truth. Joel Hemphill is right on the money. The trinitarian doctrine was a post biblical invention that was forced into doctrine through the Nicene and Chalcedonian councils of the 4th century. Neither Jesus, the apostles, or the new testament church ever believed that Jesus was a pre-existent member of an eternal godhead. There are hundereds of new testament verses alone that are very clear about this, and only a few grammatically ambiguous and misinterpreted/translated texts to the contrary. Hopefully Joel will stir up some folks to blow the dust off their bibles and quit trusting in greek philosophy and traditions of men for truth.

]]> By: SouthernGospelBlog.com » Does anyone consider songwriters to be theologians? http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-579779 SouthernGospelBlog.com » Does anyone consider songwriters to be theologians? Wed, 30 Jul 2008 11:30:55 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-579779 [...] at Averyfineline, frequent commenter CVH comments on a current story, but starts an interesting rabbit trail: Really, with the possible exception of [...] […] at Averyfineline, frequent commenter CVH comments on a current story, but starts an interesting rabbit trail: Really, with the possible exception of […]

]]> By: BKA http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-568439 BKA Thu, 24 Jul 2008 20:53:05 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-568439 I do not say this with pride, JW, however, it is true about the scriptural ignorance of the AVERAGE sg fan. There are always exceptions to every rule, however, most sg fans are more faithful to sg than they are the work of the "church". How many sg fans would go to the average sg concert if there was a sermon stuck right between the "major" groups. I, myself, love music. I love southern, contemporary, praise and worship. As long is God is glorified, and the person singing is abased, I enjoy it. Unfortunately, most of the time (and yes, more in sg than in any other form based on my experience) the singer is the one getting the praise. This is directly because of the scriptural ignorance of the AVERAGE sg fan. Without a few people in this forum with some God given wisdom about scripture, most sg fans would not see the problem with J. Hemphill believing what he believes. As long as the song has a good beat, a few catchy words, and presented in an entertaining way, the AVERAGE sg fan couldn't care less whether the song is scriptural. (I am not yelling when I say average, I just want to make sure everyone knows that I know there are exceptions to every rule) I grew up in southern gospel. I still "prefer" the sg sound. But, over the years, I have become increasingly distressed over the lack of concern about how the sg artist present the "Gospel" in song. For the most part, sg has become a joke. This is because the AVERAGE sg fan doesn't hold the artist to much of a biblical standard. Wouldn't it be amazing if we saw lives changed based on the biblical presentation during sg concerts, and was less interested in who was more "entertaining". I do not say this with pride, JW, however, it is true about the scriptural ignorance of the AVERAGE sg fan. There are always exceptions to every rule, however, most sg fans are more faithful to sg than they are the work of the “church”. How many sg fans would go to the average sg concert if there was a sermon stuck right between the “major” groups. I, myself, love music. I love southern, contemporary, praise and worship. As long is God is glorified, and the person singing is abased, I enjoy it. Unfortunately, most of the time (and yes, more in sg than in any other form based on my experience) the singer is the one getting the praise. This is directly because of the scriptural ignorance of the AVERAGE sg fan. Without a few people in this forum with some God given wisdom about scripture, most sg fans would not see the problem with J. Hemphill believing what he believes. As long as the song has a good beat, a few catchy words, and presented in an entertaining way, the AVERAGE sg fan couldn’t care less whether the song is scriptural. (I am not yelling when I say average, I just want to make sure everyone knows that I know there are exceptions to every rule) I grew up in southern gospel. I still “prefer” the sg sound. But, over the years, I have become increasingly distressed over the lack of concern about how the sg artist present the “Gospel” in song. For the most part, sg has become a joke. This is because the AVERAGE sg fan doesn’t hold the artist to much of a biblical standard. Wouldn’t it be amazing if we saw lives changed based on the biblical presentation during sg concerts, and was less interested in who was more “entertaining”.

]]> By: Angie M http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-568397 Angie M Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:58:18 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-568397 #11: Hemphill's belief is not Oneness Pentecostalism, which is what your link takes us to. #11: Hemphill’s belief is not Oneness Pentecostalism, which is what your link takes us to.

]]> By: JW http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-568232 JW Thu, 24 Jul 2008 17:06:44 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-568232 C'mon, BKA #22, "The average sg fan doesn’t have a clue about scripture. "??? I agree many and myself! need to be better educated about backing up our beliefs, but saying they "don't have a clue"? Most I know have a good grasp of The Bible and the basics. Joel Hemphill can't say whatever he wants. I, and most, can read "The Word became flesh..." Big deal. There are billions of Joel Hemphills out there and this is nothing new. The Bible explicitly says this will happen. Let's just keep reading and studying. C’mon, BKA #22, “The average sg fan doesn’t have a clue about scripture. “???

I agree many and myself! need to be better educated about backing up our beliefs, but saying they “don’t have a clue”? Most I know have a good grasp of The Bible and the basics.

Joel Hemphill can’t say whatever he wants. I, and most, can read “The Word became flesh…”

Big deal. There are billions of Joel Hemphills out there and this is nothing new. The Bible explicitly says this will happen.

Let’s just keep reading and studying.

]]> By: thamp http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-565971 thamp Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:06:42 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-565971 Wow... It looks like he has created his own gospel very few can agree with. It's amazing what people can see when they pick the meaning of scripture that meets their needs. Wow… It looks like he has created his own gospel very few can agree with.

It’s amazing what people can see when they pick the meaning of scripture that meets their needs.

]]> By: Bubba http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-565942 Bubba Wed, 23 Jul 2008 13:30:05 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-565942 Joel may not be pure Oneness, but his views are not even close to orthodox Christianity. Check out some of the links on this site and what appears to be Joel's own words. http://www.trumpetcallbooks.com/index.html Joel may not be pure Oneness, but his views are not even close to orthodox Christianity. Check out some of the links on this site and what appears to be Joel’s own words.

http://www.trumpetcallbooks.com/index.html

]]> By: BKA http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-565184 BKA Wed, 23 Jul 2008 04:18:40 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-565184 This is an example of "man's wisdom being foolishness to God" run amuck. Eric, I agree that silly theological disagreements has caused the "church" to lose credibility (along with ungodly living among the people of the church), however, this is not just some silly theological disagreement. If Jesus Christ is not God, then none of us have any hope!!!! This is huge, because, believe it or not, there will be some people that will be impressed, simply because it is "Joel Hemphill", and they have loved his music for "years". The average sg fan doesn't have a clue about scripture. Most don't know the difference between the Bible and the Readers Digest. Sad but true. It is important that the "true" church know the truth about a man like Joel Hemphill, so they can make an informed decision on whether to invite him to their church. I pray for Mr. Hemphill and for his salvation. This is an example of “man’s wisdom being foolishness to God” run amuck. Eric, I agree that silly theological disagreements has caused the “church” to lose credibility (along with ungodly living among the people of the church), however, this is not just some silly theological disagreement. If Jesus Christ is not God, then none of us have any hope!!!! This is huge, because, believe it or not, there will be some people that will be impressed, simply because it is “Joel Hemphill”, and they have loved his music for “years”. The average sg fan doesn’t have a clue about scripture. Most don’t know the difference between the Bible and the Readers Digest. Sad but true. It is important that the “true” church know the truth about a man like Joel Hemphill, so they can make an informed decision on whether to invite him to their church. I pray for Mr. Hemphill and for his salvation.

]]> By: Eric Melton http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-564167 Eric Melton Tue, 22 Jul 2008 14:32:56 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-564167 Rev. Clarence Driver wrote: Joe said, “Rodney Griffin’s theology is pretty sound. So was Gordon Jensen’s and Neil Enloe’s.” Sound, only if you are Southern Baptist! Rev Driver, Actually none of these men are of the Baptist belief. Gordon Jensen and Neil Enloe like myself all attend Assembly of God churches. The couriers were part of First Assembly of God in Harrisburg PA for years. Gordon who is a good friend and who operates in a very prophetic anointing attends The Church at Indian Lake which is an AG church in Hendersonville, TN. I am not sure as to why their doctrine would only apply to Southern Baptists. I don't agree with all of my brothers and sisters in the Pentecostal churches on everything, but I do believe that we should all be about the Father's business and preach and sing the gospel that God has called us to do. Disagreement on doctrine has been why so many in the world are turned off to the church. There is much farce and inaccuracy in the kingdom of God. Many people say "God told me" and it was just bad pizza the night before. People need to make sure they really heard from God before saying that God told them. What God tells us will never be contradictory to the word. Rev. Clarence Driver wrote:

Joe said, “Rodney Griffin’s theology is pretty sound. So was Gordon Jensen’s and Neil Enloe’s.”

Sound, only if you are Southern Baptist!

Rev Driver,

Actually none of these men are of the Baptist belief. Gordon Jensen and Neil Enloe like myself all attend Assembly of God churches. The couriers were part of First Assembly of God in Harrisburg PA for years. Gordon who is a good friend and who operates in a very prophetic anointing attends The Church at Indian Lake which is an AG church in Hendersonville, TN. I am not sure as to why their doctrine would only apply to Southern Baptists.

I don’t agree with all of my brothers and sisters in the Pentecostal churches on everything, but I do believe that we should all be about the Father’s business and preach and sing the gospel that God has called us to do. Disagreement on doctrine has been why so many in the world are turned off to the church. There is much farce and inaccuracy in the kingdom of God. Many people say “God told me” and it was just bad pizza the night before. People need to make sure they really heard from God before saying that God told them. What God tells us will never be contradictory to the word.

]]> By: thamp http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-564099 thamp Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:49:48 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-564099 Bubba, Joel Hemphill's doctrine is different than that of One God or Jesus Name beliefs. Jesus Name believers believe that there is one God and Jesus was God from the beginning. Joel Hemphill did come from a Jesus Name family, but now he has moved onto something completely different. To my knowledge PCD does not hold to his beliefs. Bubba,
Joel Hemphill’s doctrine is different than that of One God or Jesus Name beliefs. Jesus Name believers believe that there is one God and Jesus was God from the beginning.

Joel Hemphill did come from a Jesus Name family, but now he has moved onto something completely different. To my knowledge PCD does not hold to his beliefs.

]]> By: dd http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-564081 dd Tue, 22 Jul 2008 13:37:23 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-564081 The father declared from the throne as Jesus was baptized by John..."This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." And the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, just so there was no mistaking it, lighted on Jesus. All three specific individuals of the Trinity took part. i dont care if PC&D, Mr. Hemphill or anyone says otherwise. Jesus, God's beloved Son, and my Savior was God in the flesh lived a sinless life, became sin and died for the sins of the world, past, present and future but rose victorious on the third day from the grave. Went back to heaven and presented to the Father his blood as atonement for us. and sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us, even now. Praise his HOLY name. ok, there, i had to get that off of me. i'll keep my eyes on Jesus, not any person. The father declared from the throne as Jesus was baptized by John…”This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” And the Holy Spirit, in the form of a dove, just so there was no mistaking it, lighted on Jesus. All three specific individuals of the Trinity took part. i dont care if PC&D, Mr. Hemphill or anyone says otherwise. Jesus, God’s beloved Son, and my Savior was God in the flesh lived a sinless life, became sin and died for the sins of the world, past, present and future but rose victorious on the third day from the grave. Went back to heaven and presented to the Father his blood as atonement for us. and sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us, even now. Praise his HOLY name.

ok, there, i had to get that off of me. i’ll keep my eyes on Jesus, not any person.

]]> By: CVH http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-564013 CVH Tue, 22 Jul 2008 12:36:13 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-564013 I'm typing this with latex gloves on, fearing that my post may back up to Harry Peters. Ewww.... Anyway, I had posted the comment about PC&D on the open thread and Bubba has given a reference already to the origins of the 'Oneness' doctrine. If you want to look at it as it relates to PC&D, simply Google "Philips Craig and Dean theology" and a number of websites will come up that have discussed their theological stands. It's nothing new. I’m typing this with latex gloves on, fearing that my post may back up to Harry Peters. Ewww….

Anyway, I had posted the comment about PC&D on the open thread and Bubba has given a reference already to the origins of the ‘Oneness’ doctrine. If you want to look at it as it relates to PC&D, simply Google “Philips Craig and Dean theology” and a number of websites will come up that have discussed their theological stands. It’s nothing new.

]]> By: Kyle http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-563965 Kyle Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:29:02 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/07/21/a-mountain-out-of-a-hemphill/#comment-563965 Okay, I just have to wonder....all of this is coming to light just as Gold City's new single, "I Cast My Bread Upon The Water," hits the airwaves. Guess who wrote the song..... Okay, I just have to wonder….all of this is coming to light just as Gold City’s new single, “I Cast My Bread Upon The Water,” hits the airwaves. Guess who wrote the song…..

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