Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music
The internet is for porn on Avenue Q, but in sg, it’s also evidently useful for d-list score settling.
Sounds like someone didn’t get what he wanted when he tried to ride the shirttales of a legend. Well, Judson, that’s what happens when you join a group. You were never part of a band, never part of a collective, never considered anything but a guy to set up sound equipment for Naomi. What did you expect? Getting somewhere in the music industry rarely comes from begging a legend for a shot at stardom. It takes work, hard work. It takes talent. And then it takes some luck at being at the right place at the right time. Only a few actually live the dream. I’m still waiting, myself.
So the SG industry is crooked, huh? Maybe the circles you ran with were. And clearly it rubbed off…on you. You don’t exactly have the finest rep, boy. Careful who you try to pull down. There’s a lot of bad stuff going on - that’s true. But you’re tossing in every true minister in with all the bad folks. Bad move. I’m sure you’re about to get what you deserve on this site. Enjoy the ride.
Posted 24 Aug 2008 at 11:42 pm ¶
His homepage lists his income as $75,000-$100k and he wants the rest of us to feel sorry for him that he wasn’t paid a time or two to sing SG. Puh-leeze!!! Aside from that, I agree with what commenter #1 said in that what goes around comes around.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 2:14 am ¶
#2, I understand your point, but really, it doesn’t matter if a person is rich or poor. If they provide a product or service, they deserve the pay negotiated. This isn’t saying what he did in other ways was right.
I also doubt he makes that much money. Many people exaggerate and it might just be for show.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 7:48 am ¶
Some of his comments seem to echo the sentiments of Josh Cobb….
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 8:18 am ¶
And we wonder why people don’t want to become Christians. This guy just keeps getting himself deeper and deeper. It’s a shame. Instead of riding on the name of a legend, he should have tried to bring something to the group and help promote the events. Yeah, I really feel sorry for him. Right…
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 9:01 am ¶
That man needs prayer, for the bitterness that lives inside him! We’ve all had bad experiences, whatever our walk in life, but what is the use of airing it to the world? It is not Christ-like, that’s for certain.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 9:48 am ¶
Do you think that maybe we have “blinders” on and don’t want to know the truth? I dare say that a lot of what he has written is “true”. None of us want to hear anything negative about the people we “worship”, but sadly, a lot of what he is saying is true. Go to NQC next mth. and
you can figure some of it out for yourselves. I’m not saying I agree with everthing he is saying, but, in his defense,
I’m sure he knows more than I do.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 9:53 am ¶
Upon re-reading his post, he does make a few valid arguments. I just question his reasoning for such a post (and the attitude behind it). He’s not very diplomatic, that’s for sure.
Now, I have to wonder….am I included in the “white trash” group he’s talking about, and should I be offended??
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 10:34 am ¶
First of all, I agree with Judson in that some of the things that I see taking place disgust me. However, what I am seeing is more in line with an arrogance on the part of many of our singers. As a promoter and having the opportunity to deal with several groups, I have never had the experience that Judson is referencing. This doesn’t mean that it doesn’t exist. However, I doubt very seriously that this is as wide spread as he is talking about.
I can think of about 400 different ways of dealing with this issue and none of them involve putting this out on a blog and dissing every pastor you have ever sung for or every group you have ever sung with while in that group. Good luck in the future getting booked somewhere.
I am immediately wondering how many of these “gay bar” pastors and bed hopping singers has he confronted directly. At least some of the early pastors I dealt with would tell the singers to go home if they saw something that wasn’t right (i.e. smoking or, heaven forbid, shorts). Yes, I have seen it happen.
Judson, you have fallen into the hands of the enemy and he now has some extra fodder from your hands to throw in our face. There is a reason that God has set it up to where the church could handle it’s own sin issues rather than leave it up to the world. Unfortunately, the church has dropped the ball when it comes to this area. However that does not give us permission to go outside of the boundaries that He has already put in place.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 11:03 am ¶
Kyle, I thought of Josh Cobb as well. Maybe they can start a group. They could be called the complainers, sour grapes, hey wait……grapes and whining, there has to be a name in there.
Seriously, he has some bitterness, and might likely be exaggerating, but he and Josh may well are telling some truths at least with some people. Of course anger can cause people to not see things clearly, but even guilty or angry people can see things and at least tell some truths. Truth is truth regardless of the source. I am definitely not saying I believe everything, but this may be the way he sees it, or it might just be a way to get revenge. It is hard to tell.
Kyle, I thought that his remark about white trash is uncalled for as he seems to lump all fans in the same group or at least all who defend Naomi or disagree with what he did or what is said he did. But, he also seemed to lump all SG’ers together too.
With that said, the story is odd. First Naomi said one thing, and then the story seemed to change. I can’t necessarily reconcile how it all fits together with what I read. However, I do have respect for Naomi for her history and nice things said about her from people who know her.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 11:07 am ¶
Look folks, If you have a problem with someone, take it up with them personally. Don’t air it all over the internet. If you can’t work it out with them, take it to the next level. Don’t air it all over the internet. And he put himslef in this position by the actions he took trying to incorporate the name or whatever it was he was trying to do. And no matter if it is SG, CCM, or even your local church-the more involved you become, the stronger the Christian you must be.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 11:26 am ¶
I read Judson’s post. I don’t know how much was true and how much wasn’t, but even if it were all true I think he went about things the wrong way. He did not come off looking any better than the “white trash” he likes to speak about, obviously that is some sort of catch phrase for him. The truth of the matter is, SG is full of people with a predisposition to sin just like any other genre. The sad thing is, so many prominent artists give in regularly to that predisposition and seem to get a superman complex. They feel they can live, talk and act the way they want and in return we should not hold them accountable. They feel that it is perfectly fine if they do all this and yet as long as they are telling us how we are supposed to live, then they have “done their duty” and are therefor invincible. In the end, I understand the fact that he is a little upset, but he should take the high road if he ever wants to really amount to anything more than a d-list singer. Publicly bashing a legend or any other group in SG will not get you anywhere and will come back to bite you in the behind. He has to learn an obviously hard lesson that we all learn. In life, you are surrounded by all kinds of people. Some you like, some you don’t. You are still commanded by God to love them. If you have an issue with someone, pray about it and confront them. Don’t slander them in public ( in this case I know it is his private blog, but it is made public because of the internet) but meet them face to face. Express your concerns face to face with the person. If you can not agree, then agree to disagree and move on with life. I am not saying go around a lie about it. On the contrary, tell the truth. “There were issues that caused disagreement and it was better that we not work together anymore.” Don’t attack the “legend” in public and bring other groups into your attack. It is not professional and it is not right.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 11:53 am ¶
LeestinkingBob, good point about going to the person as is set up by God, By the same token, one has to wonder about their sins done in secret being brought to light. It sounds like he is writing an expose’.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 12:01 pm ¶
cynical one wrote:
So, Judson’s giving up on church and sgm, because he saw some hypocrites and idiots. I hope he doesn’t find out several people who work at his bank are gay. I hope he doesn’t find out there are crooked car dealers. I hope he doesn’t learn the guy in who flips his hamburger at the fastfood joint is an idiot. I hope he doesn’t learn the mortician in his town doesn’t care about the grieving widows, he’s just in it for the money. I hope he doesn’t catch the grocery clerk on a bad day. I hope he doesn’t learn the guy working at Home Depot shops Lowes. I hope he doesn’t learn that most people who start small businesses have no business background, and have no business being in business.
He’ll have to give up doing business in all those areas of life, too.
Judson, welcome to hermithood!
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 12:46 pm ¶
There probably has allready been one that I just happen to miss but I imagine there will one day be a documentary about SG and all the ills. Heaven knows the media has enough people to talk to (i.e. Josh Cobb and Judson) that they could put together a mini-series on PBS.
Yes QSM, God has a way of bringing secret things to light. I guess I would hope that we would do it in such a way as to follow what He has set up. The bitterness that Judson is talking about in here is far more than a mere root, it is a full blown plant and in the wrong hands will trouble many people and may cause some to not want to come to Christ.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 12:50 pm ¶
Surely you don’t take this seriously. It’s a kid throwing a tantrum. He got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and he’s ticked. Not to mention he’s just as guilty himself of some of the things he’s accusing others. Ridiculous.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 1:47 pm ¶
#16, LSB, I am not condoning his doing so or how he did it, but God can use it to expose those who are doing right. Not that God did it, but he can use it. I agree it is not the way to go. Perhaps if he had had less venom and wrote about the things going on without mentioning names (although he probably will) it could be beneficial in cleaning up SG. Not that SG artists can be perfect, but I am talking about the ones in it for the wrong reasons. I do hate the damage this could do to those weaker or non-Christians.
Calvin Newton wrote about how the industry was in the 50′’s in particular.
it is not flattering, but honest. He includes his own problems, but doesn’t mention names of people in some of the offending stories.
If this goes a long way to cleaning up SG then this could be a good thing. I am not asking for perfection but a little class goes a long way, on both sides of this discussion.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 2:26 pm ¶
Mike McIlwain wrote:
#14, Cynical One,
You are spot on with your observations. We don’t live in a perfect world and we don’t get to minister in one.
I wish more people understood Romans 7:24 and the struggle between the flesh and the spirit. If we could grasp a sound understanding of sanctification, then maybe we would have a little more understanding as well as a gracious spirit when dealing with those who fail us.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 2:58 pm ¶
Can we say slander and defamation of character charges coming soon?
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 4:18 pm ¶
I must say, It is a shame that this young man has been so contaminated in spirit by this situation.
PLEASE HEAR ME OUT ON THESE NEXT PHRASES…
1. I worked as a southern gospel DJ and host of events for 4 or 5 years before I gave the job up for a more lucrative one. I have personally seen Jack Daniels sitting on the counter tops of tour buses of southern gospel artists, along with white and red wines. (could have been for cooking? eh’??)
2. I had a situation where I was hosting a very popular, single male singer. At the restraunt afterwards, in an attempt to shake hands with somebody a few seats down from me, the man put his male parts onto my shoulder (Pretending it was an accident at first) then looking at me seductively as if he meant to do it. I am a MAN, so this was a tale tale sign of homosexuality to me. I felt so sick I got up and left. I have since never spoken to the man.
3. CORRUPTION IS NOT JUST IN SOUTHERN GOSPEL, it is also prominent in CONTEMPORARY music as well.
A GREAT friend of mine (my best friend) is a session drummer living in Ohio, but also working in Nashville. He was scouted by an up and coming group,(CCM) and flew out to phoenix for a video taping. He taped the video with the group, and afterwards went out to dinner. What happened next appauled my friend…
He was only 19 at the time, and had always been very sheltered. The older young men ALL ordered liqour, began to talk explicitely sexual about what “Girls they would bang” that night at the hotel….He was so upset he called me in tears, turned down the lucrative offer…and was picked up by a few BIGGER talents a few weeks later, that really lived the life. proving that it pays to stand for what you believe.
HE DIDNT GET SO MAD HE STOPPED THE BUSINESS, OR POSTED ANGER AND SMUT ON HIS MYSPACE…
HE SIMPY STOOD UP AND WALKED AWAY, telling the young men “I don’t believe in living the way you live”.
There is severe corruption in SG and we all know it, I could go deeper with stories but I don’t have any need for it. I just wan’t those of you that keep saying “It’s not that bad” to get your head out of the sand, and those of you that say “its EVERYbody” to stop being so judgmental. There are still some solid, steady, Godly groups and singers out there who JUST WANT TO SEE PEOPLE SAVED.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 4:26 pm ¶
Bitter - party of one !!
This guy has ruined any chances of anyone ever giving credibility to anything he has to say. But for him to bash Naomi the way he has in this post - is completely uncalled for.
Maybe it was hard for her to let go of the reigns - but at the same time - so many have taken advantage of her - “working for her” in the past - that I am sure she is cautious.
You have to remember - this is her life’s calling and work - she’s never done anything else - if she quits travelling and singing - I am sure she has no other source of income. I am sure she would prefer sitting at home and enjoying her retirment and family - but she probably did not prepare for her retirement - and has to crawl on a bus and travel just to stay afloat.
If the bus fails to get maintained - then that is a problem -but maybe this is some of things she does not realize needs to be done. I know that Vernon probably took care of all of that stuff before he passed - and James before him - so Naomi - just may not be aware.
I cannot see that she would be so difficult to work with - as sweet and humble as she is in all of my contact with her. I had the opportunity to know many that have travelled with her - and have never had anyone discredit her the way this “boy” has.
He sounds like a “whipped” little boy that did not get his way - so he’s throwing a tantrum because he did not get what he felt he was intitled to. Welcome to the real world Judson -
[lots of editing]
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 5:01 pm ¶
RE: Leebob’s comment (#18), I don’t think something like this (or much anything else short of an industry-wide scandal) will go a long way “to cleaning up SG”.
The only difference between Christian genres of music and others is the lyrical content and, hopefully, the lifestyle and worldview of the people creating and presenting it. But you can’t always count on that. How many southern gospel hits through the years have been written by people who only had a cursory understanding of the gospel when they wrote them? How many performers over the years have admitted they didn’t “know the Lord” for decades, even while they sold records and won industry awards.
And it isn’t limited to SG. Just last week came the revelation that the writer and performer of the Hillsong hit “Healer”, Michael Guglielmucci, lied about having cancer. The song has been a huge hit in concerts and churches; if you watch the video of his performance of the song using an oxygen tank, it will move you to tears. But it was all a fraud.
Long ago I reconciled within my own heart and mind the realization that God alone can judge the people in this business. I can question their motives and criticize the quality of their work, but only God… That’s why I don’t think any part of the Christian music industry will ever change. Not as long as people are involved in it. It will endure the scandals (financial, sexual, moral), the sometimes insufferable quality and the overly simplistic theology because the lyrics and performances will always connect with people on some level that transcends its shortcomings.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 5:04 pm ¶
Judson Horner wrote:
You people are amazing. You’ll take the side of people operating illegally before anything else. Amazing. This is exactly the response I wanted. Everyone should know how an illegitimate business has printed libel against me. And yet you still want to take their side. Some things just don’t add up. Go ahead and check with the Alabama Secretary of State. You’ll not find anything for CVM or any of their “organizations.”
One of the reasons I’ve taken this approach is simply because no one would listen me. A few months back many people started attacking me simply on the word of CVM and some other ignorant people. I am discrediting them. No one then would listen to me and so now it’s time to show you who the real enemy is. And how you would side with an illegal business is beyond me. Of course this address to those who are in support of CVM and want to take their word as truth.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 5:08 pm ¶
I sent Judson an email about how ridiculous I thought this whole thing was, but I was incredibly respectful and made some very good points, most of which have already been made here. All I got back was a snotty email to the effect of “You’re all ignorant and Kasey and I know you don’t care about us so we just think you’re all funny anyway.”
There was no logic to any of his responses. Bottom line? He KNOWS he’s wrong and now he’s just embarrassed. MS is right. He got his hand caught in the cookie jar and he’s mad about it.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 5:19 pm ¶
Judson….it’s probably best you stop now….for your own sake.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 5:24 pm ¶
And people are really listening to you now (insert sarcasm)? You miss the point. You are throwing a fit like a two year old who didn’t get his way instead of taking the high road. I haven’t read any comment of those supporting CVM, but I have read plenty of these comments saying the same thing. They all seem to percieve the way you are handling this as inappropriate and unprofessional. Maybe that should give you a hint. I know you are young and some people learn lessons the hard way. Seems you are determined to do that here. I wish you the best, but man get it together for your own sake if for no one else’s.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 5:55 pm ¶
As some one who has promoted Gospel Music Events I can say this with some credibility.
First as a legal thing. You do not have to register with a state when you start a business. Only if you desire to incorporate it or create a LLC. Thus creating a corp entity to shield yours personal assets.
If you want to start a business without doing so then you are simply a sole proprietor. Nothing wrong with that course of biz.
Now it is illegal if you use the INC. or LLC. mark after the name of the business if you have not properly registered with a state.
I feel your pain. I lost $ 68K one night promoting a HUGE EVENT I felt could not miss. I was bitter for years. I felt like some of the performers and the places I had bought advertising from did not follow up with their promises to help me promote the event. They did what was ON PAPER, but they did none of the extra things they promised with a wink and a nod.
I finally realized I had this same issue with some of my ventures in the regular biz world. So I felt lucky I did not have to declare Bankruptcy because of it. Once I did the Lord Blessed me in some of my other ventures.
Just find something else to do and go for it as fast as you can. YOU are NEVER going to do ANYTHING to clean it up yourself.
I have deplaned a few times when I did not feel safe. If I did not feel safe I surely would not get on a bus that was not properly maintained. Did anybody hold a gun to your head to make you do all those dates with out pay or make you board an unsafe bus???
Bottom line… if you get up every morning and listen to Gold City sing… IF GOD BE FOR US, WHO CAN BE AGAINST US, it makes it much harder to have a bad day!!
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 6:23 pm ¶
One of my theories based upon working with young people and singers is that maturity and removing some of the self-cnteredness usually does not occur until the late 30s to early 40s.
Judson, I am not taking anybody’s side but you do need to step back, have your parents or someone you trust (not a friend; perhaps you rpastor) look at your words and listen to what they think.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 6:33 pm ¶
Wade, I would look more carefully. We’re talking about operating as a corporation with different divisions and calling yourself the CEO. Lawyers have already confirmed they’re illegal activity. All it takes is a little common sense.
bbq, “for your own sake”…what is this? Is a threat?
I have contacted John Lanier about operating illegally but he would not respond. I asked him where he was registered and he has remained silent.
I made him aware that I am writing a book and that this info would be in there and if he was a legit business then he needed to provide that info to me. I do cover my tracks. Now, why has John remained silent. It seems to me that he has been caught. As far as slander and defamation of character…they’ve done a good job of that themselves. I have said nothing that wasn’t the truth. This goes for the others mentioned in my blog. Everything is the truth of what happened and if people can’t take criticism about their music then they don’t need to be singing.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 8:17 pm ¶
Judson, I don’t know which side is telling the truth, but your anger and attitude is all too clear and calling people names will not win you any friends. Even if what you said was 100% true (and I am not saying it is because I don’t know) your approach is very lacking.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 8:38 pm ¶
Judson..I think that you’re a little confused. I don’t really think that anyone here cared that much about the legality and specifics of the situations involved.
People had a problem with the blatant disrespect and immaturity you showed.
And, obviously, the immense lack of accountability.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 9:10 pm ¶
Does this count as using INC? http://www.candrduplication.com/
It has INC. beside the name. Now, I have checked with the Secretary of State in Alabama…nothing….Kentucky…nothing….Tennssee…ahhh…inactive. See for yourself
Now, was it moved to another state, if so…which one?
I have printed off this information just incase the webmaster decides to remove INC from it.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 9:33 pm ¶
Jud: Wade is right, man. You can have divisions and CEOs and not be incorp’d or a corporation. These things are allowed by our government to keep proprietors from losing all they have in a business venture. No one HAS to do either.
oooh wow - you really caught John Lanier. He’s definitely guilty if he doesn’t respond to a delusional, whining, wannabe author who thinks he just found the Jimmy Hoffa of SG stories. John not responding to you doesn’t make him guilty, but it does make him a lot smarter than us.
And thanks for posting. It’s a lot more fun now that we know you’re reading. Especially since it’s on a site devoted to the music I thought you wanted nothing to do with. HMMMMM
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 10:07 pm ¶
Robin, you mean the same blatant disrespect and immaturity shown to me also in the past? I’m just telling the truth. If you don’t like it…don’t read it.
quartetman, no disrespect, but I am not in this to win friends. I can count on my right hand how many people I trust that is associated with southern gospel music.
Posted 25 Aug 2008 at 10:10 pm ¶
Tele D. Trooth wrote:
ok…I’ll bite…what’s the payoff for this massive exposure of criminal activity? Do you think this is going to change ANYTHING in the industry?
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 12:40 am ¶
So, it all boils down to this…nothing can be found under C&R Duplication, Inc. on any of the secretary of state websites. The only that does show up is inactive and John nor Randall’s names are on it. So, what’s the deal? Their website shows they’re incorporated. But where?
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 1:22 am ¶
#30 Justin said “Everything is the truth of what happened and if people can’t take criticism about their music then they don’t need to be singing.”
I have one. If people can’t take criticism of their posts and the tone of their posts, they don’t need to be posting.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 7:31 am ¶
I am only going to post one more thing on this thread, and then I am through (especially since Judson has openly stated that his entire purpose was to bait people to get their responses)…. I do agree with some of the points you have made in your post. There are unspeakable sins running rampant in Southern Gospel music. I could spend all day listing them and still only come up with a portion of what is out there. Am I defending it? NEVER.
If you take it strictly from a business standpoint (and you have to realize, this IS a business), SG is an industry that survives on emotions. Ask any little old lady at the record table why they are buying a CD, and I guarantee you the answer won’t be, “Oh, I just LOVED the modulation on that last song, and the inverted harmonies were flat out AWESOME!” Heck, ask them if they even know what a modulation is….. The reason they buy music is because they were moved emotionally. Something that the artist said or did triggered a positive emotional response, and they bought the music as a result. You can’t tell me that you listen to SG music just for the artistic quality (I can see half of the people on this page laughing hysterically at that last line!!).
Now you show me one SG performer (yes, I said PERFORMER, not MINISTER) who doesn’t at least try to capitalize on this. That well-timed “Amen,” wiping a tear from your eye, the quivering voice….I’m willing to bet even you have done this at some point. It’s a performance. Just like an actor in a movie, a singer has to “sell” the performance. Whether it’s sincere or not, from a business standpoint, is null and void; tears and laughter results in customers….not only that, but REPEAT customers.
Sadly, for many SG singers, all they are doing is performing. They hit the stage, put on their “Praise God” show, and go back to their bus with the waitress they met earlier in the day. The little old ladies came up, pinched their cheek, bought 2 CD’s for $25, and went along their way, talking about how “anointed” that singer was….if only they knew….
What many people fail to realize is that God will work when HE wants to. He can take some fraud’s sappy salvation song and use it to touch the hearts of those who need to hear it. A well-planned tear can be just enough for someone to let their guard down and ask God into their hearts. There is nothing Satan hates more than to see his plan backfire.
I will be the first to admit that I am not perfect by any means. I have walked off a stage and gotten into a fight with another singer, or just went into silent mode, not wanting to deal with anyone. On one particular trip, I spent the morning drive home in a cussing match with my exwife over the phone. If only the people who had watched me sing last night (and bought our CD’s) could’ve seen me then.
THERE IS NONE RIGHTEOUS, NO NOT ONE. As long as MAN is involved in gospel music, there will be SIN in gospel music. Man was born into sin. We are sinful by nature. Being in gospel music does not put a barrier around us from temptation. I freely admit, my son was 3 months old when I married at 20 years old. A year later, my wife and I separated, and spent the next 3 years locked in a VERY bitter divorce and custody battle. I even had to spend a night in jail. Not exactly an ideal resume for a witness for Christ.
Now, I ask you….would you rather see souls won for Christ by a fraudulent ministry or would you rather just shut down any chance these people have of hearing the gospel AT ALL?? Personally, I’d rather see souls saved. That is not saying that I condone the fraud….that is saying that I know that God can use even the most vile sinners for His will. NOTHING is out of God’s hands.
If you would like to discuss this further, my personal e-mail address is email@example.com. I have stated my peace on this website, and will not be posting anything further, either here or on my own site, regarding this particular issue. I would be happy to address any questions or concerns you may have with what I have posted in a civil manner privately.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 8:19 am ¶
Maybe Jud is using the “even bad publicity is publicity” to help promote is book. Sad thing is the lawsuits he will get slapped with will even further ruin him. This is really sad.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 8:44 am ¶
Judson - I would venture to say that everyone of us on here have been wronged in some way at some point in time. We have gone into places where we understood our pay to be one thing and then get nothing at all. We did not go public and blast this church because they still have ministry to try to accomplish and ANYTHING I do to hinder that would put me in the position of being a stumbling block. So, if you want to take them to court that is your right as an American. But do not make the mistake of thinking that you are in the right (and you may be, I don’t know) that your actions are okay with God and remember, in the end, it is He that you will answer to and not a bunch of bloggers.
God bless you
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 9:11 am ¶
ill literate wrote:
Hey Judson. I suggest that if you are about to persue a career as an author, that you should first concentrate on your grammar and sentence structures. I have a nephew in the second grade that has better understanding of English than you appear to have.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 11:04 am ¶
It’s still amazing that you people would still defend these people and justify their actions. You think I need to repent? Better take a look at you own lives. You people proved exactly what I wanted to see…you’ve acted like vultures on a rotting carcas. Congratulations.
Oh and GC, you must be someone that knows me from back home or something…because no ones calls me “Jud” anymore. Are you too chicken to put your name on here? I’m pretty sure I know who you are anyway.
This book is still going out anyway and you’ve already given me a platform to voice my thoughts. Thanks so much.
Thanks to Douglas Harrison who runs this site, who wouldn’t respond to any of the info I sent him in the past. But now that I’ve posted a blog, it finally gets on here.
So, please keep the comments coming so I can have more material for the book.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 11:32 am ¶
#39- A person I knew that sang with a well known group once told me half jokingly, “if they cry, they buy.”
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 11:35 am ¶
Judson: There is no threat in my post. I’ve never met you, don’t know you and probably never will. It’s just a shame to see someone take the road you’re taking. I know you’ve said you’re not in this to win friends…that’s CLEAR!!!! We get that straight off! However, what I am concerned for is your future. Where can you go with this baggage around you now?…not that you want to go anywhere in the SGM world…I’m not saying you do. But, things have an inexplicable way of catching up with you. You may win a few battles with this tirade your on right now, but what goes around comes around. That’s all I’m saying! Think of yourself and your future long term before you open your mouth and show the immaturity you obviously are dealing with.
Judson, you posted on #24 - “You people are amazing. You’ll take the side of people operating illegally before anything else. Amazing. This is exactly the response I wanted.”
I am to take it then that this whole thing has been just to gain more fodder for your book and consequently your pocketbook? My mistake, because I was under th eimpression you were trying to right a wrong. Nobody has denied or confirmed too much of what you are attempting to say, quite poorly I might add.
If you are the Christian you claim to be then take it up directly with them. You, sir, have taken a “holier than thou” approach on this and claim to have done everything above board. Perhaps you are right….legally, but you certainly leave alot to be desired scripturally and sound more like a raving lunatic with an axe to grind than a rational young man. Had you followed through the way you are directed by scripture, not one person would have blasted you for what you did, how you did it, and the reason. As things stand right now I am questioning everything, including your motive.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 12:53 pm ¶
You told me to “not read it if I don’t like it”…so why don’t you take your own advice? If we’re just vultures coming after you anyway on the big bad internet, um, stay of this blog.
Great post. Completely true.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 12:56 pm ¶
You’re exactly right about what goes around comes around. You people had better remember that. You people are the reason real gospel singers get out of the business. All you want to do is tear people apart for no reason and yet when someone has proof of wrong doing, you still want to take the side of the enemy. Your souls are in danger. You can’t even recognize the enemy.
I have accomplished what I wanted and again thanks!! Now, this is getting boring…I’ve got a lot more writing to do. C-ya later.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 1:03 pm ¶
Okay, so I was wrong….I am going to make one more post.
Judson….You have completely disregarded my post. I even put my e-mail out for you, and yet you continue to sling mud. If this is how you choose to present yourself, conflict or not, then you are no better than the people you condemn.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 1:12 pm ¶
Jud, you need help man. Even if everything you said were true, aren’t we commanded to turn the other cheek? And even if everything you said were true, does that give you the right to trash someone personally? Take the high road man, let it go. There is one thing I’ve been told and lived and learned, what goes around comes around. Either this side or the other side of glory. Hate the sin, Love the sinner. Think about some of those songs you would sing, think about some of the things you would tell folks as tears ran down your face.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 1:22 pm ¶
Judson, we don’t know each other, and I have no idea if your blog is entirely factual, or if any parts were exaggerated. But, even if every part of it is true, handling it as you have will only do two possible things - harm you, or harm the reputation of Naomi Sego. Words have consequences. Some of them might be unintended, but they have this way of coming back around to haunt you.
If you indeed hope to write a book with this as its tone, please hire a good editor to correct the myriad of misspellings and grammatical mistakes that your essay contains. Also perhaps leave the “White trash” remarks in the rough draft, okay? But who knows…perhaps bitter will sell.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 1:39 pm ¶
Who do you expect to buy this book?
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 2:05 pm ¶
“You people are the reason real gospel singers get out of the business.”
LOL!!!! I am still laughing. Let’s see, the list of greats. Vestal Goodman, Ivan Parker, David Phelps, Guy Penrod… Judson Horner? Now we know you are dillusional.
I don’t think you are really one to point to what a real gospel singer is. You worked with one (Naomi), but your name does not carry that clout yet. After this tirade, it probably never will. Good luck in getting that book published. I imagine you will be the one fitting the bill to get it done. Man, get it together before you completely destroy yourself. Its almost too late.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 3:43 pm ¶
justa noutsider wrote:
Judsin Horner, you and Mr. Kemp are treading on some VERY thin ice. It amazez me that on another site Kasey wrote that he wasn’t aware of all this until you read it to him…especially since you guys live in the same house together in Illinois.
Granted, there are some things wrong with the gospel music industry, but who in the hell do you think you are to “expose the business”…especially since you were involved in the business full-time for less than 1 year?
You and Kasey have offended and upset nearly every professional gospel group with your trashing of Naomi and it kills me to read where you and Kasey think you’ve done no wrong. You basically accused Naomi of committing a felony. As well as John Lanier and Randall Wilds. If you know as much as you claim you know, you should realize that a person can operate a business as a sole proprietorship and not have to register with the Secretary of State unless you are a corporation or an LLC.
This all boils down to the fact that Naomi Sego and her son declined to give you the right to the name The Segos and you guys got your knickers all twisted and quit…and now are mad because you didn’t get what you wanted so you decide to trash the entire industry just to make yourself look good. But you’re actually doing the exact opposite.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 6:09 pm ¶
This is entertaining beyond what I could have hoped.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 7:26 pm ¶
YOU ARE NOT A REAL GOSPEL SINGER! You couldn’t carry a tune even if it had handles on it. You are a joke. You have a rep that follows you and Casey everywhere you go. You both are what you said this industry is full of, 
Be careful what you say….you are losing an uphill battle…and not just on these blogs. People are coming for you legally…. You ignorant fool.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 9:22 pm ¶
Oh. There’s a new blog up on his myspace. Check it out.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 9:40 pm ¶
In response to #54 & #56…Um, wow. Good posts. Too bad Mr. Harrison had to edit so much. But, obviously sharing the same pattern of thought here, I’m sure I can fill in the blanks.
And speaking of legal action…did anyone notice that ol Jud removed his “excerpt from my book” blog post? (Hmmmm)
I am curious if either or both Kasey and Judson (aka “Snuggles”) will show up at NQC in a couple of weeks and set up a booth to promote their new JK Company. With all this free publicity, I’m sure they’d get plenty of “business.”
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 11:12 pm ¶
I just checked out the new post on Judson’s website. I added a comment. But you’ll probably never see it because he has the settings such that he has to approve every submission before it can be posted. That way, he can make sure that only those comments which support him will ever see the light of day. Perhaps he is afraid of what some might say on his blog. And, with good reason.
All hyperbole aside, I want to ask everyone who reads this post to please pray for Judson. His bitterness has clouded his judgment and it might very well jeopardize his soul for eternity (see Hebrews 12:15). This really is a very serious matter and even those who may believe that Judson was wronged, cannot possibly feel proud of him for the way he has handled his grievances.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 11:21 pm ¶
Judson, let me qualify my “not winning any friends” remark. Your primary purpose should not be winning friends if you are doing God’s will. However, the comment was meant that you are shooting yourself in the foot and any chance you have of convincing people, having a future in the industry, etc. won’t happen by calling names. I am not saying that having a position in the industry should be your primary goal either, but haven’t you heard about attracting more flies with honey than vinegar? If you have indeed been done wrong, are telling any truth etc. you will not convince people or effect change by attacking people who question you.
Posted 26 Aug 2008 at 11:32 pm ¶
So the earlier tirade that he has now removed was an actual excerpt from the book. Wow, now I know one that I will not expect to see on any bestseller’s list. I love how we all “attacked” him and are now all “devils from hell”. I believe that is the way he put it. Funny thing, I was looking through the pictures on his page and for someone who was so wronged and is so angry, he still has pictures with him looking mighty chummy with some of the people he is now bashing. Just a word of advice if you read this Judson. One of the things that gives SG a bad name is all the back-biting. If SG has an image problem, your picture is now on the poster. Instead of attacking everyone and swinging wildly out of control, try actually taking a professional stance. Maybe you should think about a public apology for your mishandling of the situation. State the fact that there are obvious issues that should be and need to be dealt with in the industry, and work toward finding real solutions to those issues rather than going on a shooting spree of the mouth, or in this case the hands.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 12:56 am ¶
This is my FINAL post on this trash site and the last time I will visit. You people are great examples of Jesus. Makes me want to run to an altar and pray. Yeah right. You people are spit in the eye of God. This is directed to everyone who is against me. You don’t want to accept the truth. Instead, You insist on living and walking in darkness. My conscience is completely clear. You on the other hand really need to pray. Your obscenities prove my blog 100%. Thanks so much for letting the devil use you. Most of all, thanks to Douglas. For without this site, Lucifer would not be revealed as the enemy he is. You all have proven my point. Thank you!!
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 1:53 am ¶
Over on the “available for voice overs” website Voice123, http://voice123.com/judsonhorner our Jud says he’s available to do voice overs for “adult content”. I dunno, I’m just sayin’ . . .
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 7:57 am ¶
This seems to be a prime example of someone who is out for the almighty….dollar. I believe this seed was cast on rocky ground, no roots, no fruit. And if you and your buddy will be a NQC let me know, a few of us could sell tickets to get to your booth to view your ignorance and the proceeds can go to Naomi to service the bus.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 8:42 am ¶
Judson, Jud, or whoever you are - I had no flippin’ idea who you were until all of this so you left quite an impression on me the one time I hear ANYTHING about you….NOT!!!
You have blasted everybody on here who simply disagrees with you and quite honestly, I would hang with just about anybody on this site if given the opportunity. These are good people on here that have tried to help you out. No teverybody has used obscenities but I am sure you are going to twist this in your dillusioned little mind in that this is an industry wide problem. Remember Judson, God looks on the heart and you have openly revealed yours and we have tried to address this issue with you, some kindly, some not so kind. My final word for you would be to “Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled” Heb 12:14-16
I haven’t seen much holiness in you and quite honestly you have brought out some of the worst in some of the people on here. That would place you on the side of Lucifer.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 8:45 am ¶
#62, Judson you need help and should be very careful slinging the hate, venom, accusations, names etc. You either aren’t getting it, are blinded, or choose to be blinded. I understand frustrations over the sin and evil that might be in the industry, but man you are so off on other things. Your hatred and anger cloud your seeing that most people here aren’t name-calling you or defending wrongs, but calling you on your attitude and approach. You come across like a little bratty child who throws a tantrum because he isn’t getting his way or is called out for his behavior.
I find that sad and am concerned about the path you have taken.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 9:05 am ¶
I wasn’t going to do this…oh well. There are a lot of things I don’t understand here.
And these comments and questions are directed to / at Judson.(even though you are never going to visit this site again, yeah ok.)
1. You mentioned in an earlier post about the respect that you are due. Respect is earned. As someone who has been around for a while, I don’t think 6 or 8 months on the road entitles you to much of anything, including respect amoung your peers. Most everyone struggles out there. All the bus issues, generator issues, side of the road fixes, sounds like a typical road trip for most bus owner / operators. Your experience on the road is not exclusive.
2. You spoke of proof of wrong doing. Did I miss something? What proof? You only provided that you made some phone calls. Thats it? We don’t even know if you did, just that you said you did. There is no proof of anything. Just a disgruntled former employee. And I am trying to look at this realistically, lets say like a lawyer would look at it. You have proof of nothing. Proof is tangible. By the way, you need to brush up on your law before you state much more about business leagailties. You might be embarrassing yourself without even knowing it.
3. You stated that “we” aka “white trash” and “spit in the eye of God” just want to “tear people apart”. Do you realize how silly that sounds when YOU use terms like that above to address “us”?
4. You stated “This is directed to everyone who is against me”. Ahhh, I think now we are getting somewhere. If we don’t agree with you, then we “white trash spittle” are all going to hell. Got it.
5. In reference to #4. What is it that we are agreeing to anyway. What are you trying to convince us of. Lets just say for a moment that I agree with you. What exactly am I agreeing with? What would I have to say or do to be in agreeance? I really haven’t seen a point to all of this. I see no direction. Again, I am really trying to look at this with an “overall” outlook. I just don’t understand what you are trying to accomplish.
I guess all in all I’m just not sure what you are getting at. If you are looking for someone to feel sorry for you, well there are just to many of us who have spent cold, or hot nights on a bus, too many that have been on the side of the road with duct tape and bailing wire to feel too bad for you. If you were the only one to have ever missed a paycheck, or had one delayed we might feel different but you aren’t.
If all of this is just fodder for a book, well good luck. But somehow, and maybe it’s just me, but I don’t think we will ever see that happen. You might proove me wrong, but I don’t think so. I will however be on the look out for it in the future. Be sure to keep us posted.
I hope you haven’t missed the fact that many on here are actually praying for you. The “you people” you keep refering to are actually good, decent, God fearing folks that want to see you in Glory. I will pray for you, I will pray that God gives you peace in all of this, that the bitterness you are holding goes away and you can move on.
Try to help me understand…
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 10:23 am ¶
“we “white trash spittle” are all going to hell”
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 11:28 am ¶
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 11:29 am ¶
Hey LeeBob…you said you wouldn’t be surprised about a docu on Southern Gospel…I know for a fact there is a prominent television actor from TN who had a meeting with Showtime yesterday pitching a show idea….a “Mocumentary” if you will on what else….southern gospel…..sad…but true….
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 12:40 pm ¶
Thanks to some of you for posting about the inevitable break downs along the side of the road, and how an older lady might not know how to maintain her bus. I kept thinking how that Mrs. Sego has buried two husbands….undoubtedly she relied on them for that sort of thing for a long time, which is no surprise. We just lost a day after we broke down along I-12 in Hammond, LA. We had to limp to a parking lot to await a diesel mechanic to fix the coach the next morning. The worst part of all was that the part that broke had just been replaced 1500 miles before. This stuff happens, all too frequently. To call her bus a death trap is really foolish. My wife has no clue whatsoever about how to maintain our coach or when. I’d imagine that not many ladies would. Oh well. I really feel sorry for Mrs. Sego. She’s been a steady singer for so many years, and she sure doesn’t deserve this.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 1:14 pm ¶
I tried again to post to Judson’s blog but I’m pretty sure he will block this one, too. So I decided to share with this community what I sent him.
Judge Some, I am not a SGM singer. I can’t sing a lick and I know it. I’m also not a SGM groupie. I am not a lawyer. I AM from Southern Illinois and grew up within 50 miles of Marion - but that doesn’t make me an expert on any of this either. I’m just a disciple of the One who told us that we would know other disciples by their fruit. And your fruit is bitter, man. EVEN IF YOU ARE RIGHT THAT YOU WERE WRONGED, your fruit is totally bitter. And that means that even if you are right that you were wronged, now you are wrong.
Remember, son, “He who slings mud only loses ground.”
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 2:08 pm ¶
I’m sorry to report that I had tried to post on Judge-some’s blog, had a BRIEF exchange with him and have now been blocked from sending messages to him on his MySpace site. Not just that he won’t POST them, he has blocked them from even coming to him. So, I guess I’ll have to post any messages to him here - where we ALL know he still visits and reads to see what we are saying about him.
Apparently I owe the AVFL community an apology. Judge-some says I haven’t written anything intelligent. I ask your forgiveness. Although I am a published author, it is true that I have not subjected my submissions on AVFL to the same discipline of revisions and rewrites that I use for print publication. But I must admit that the vocabulary, syntax, grammar and organization would be similar. So for those who have been offended by my unintelligent, inarticulate and mindless prose, I truly beg your pardon. (And it MUST be true ’cause Jud said so and he’s writin’ a book.)
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 3:00 pm ¶
Buick: I live about 60 miles from Marion in Southern Illinois….It’s a small world.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 3:02 pm ¶
I’m starting to think this whole thing is a joke. It seems every response that someone gets from him includes the words “white trash” and “unintelligible” (myself included). Perhaps it’s an autoresponder, who knows?
If this really is how this guy really is, and this isn’t just some elaborate stunt to get attention, then I feel sorry for whoever associates with him. Even someone who is genuinely addressing him with a real concern is insulted (which leads me to believe either it’s not really him or it’s just a load of garbage).
Either way, I’m not gonna waste any more time worrying about it. Whether he’s right or wrong, he has just destroyed any validity he had with how he has been handling the entire situation.
And Judson, if you are reading this, since you seem to be so stuck on collecting material for your little scrapbook, you better give me FULL credit for my quotes!!
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 4:20 pm ¶
Some people never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of human knowledge. For the love of God, pull the plug on this thread.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 5:58 pm ¶
Judson Horner=Typical Southern Illinois, Marion, Illinios, mean spirited, mentality. That are is full of this type of crap, all from “Church Folks!”
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 6:00 pm ¶
Buick, you says you is a published arthur and all, but as a seryus student mysef, I havta say that yer grammer and sentince structyer are pathetik. You evin miss pell some wurds. You dont fool me! So dont try and make us thinck youre all high falootin. Maybe run yer posts thru me furst, and after I check them, you kin post them and wel’l think your intelagent then.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 8:00 pm ¶
Alan, thanks for your generous offer on post #78. I’ll take you up on that if you will give me an address to which to send my drafts.
jbb #74 - about 60 miles which direction from Marion?
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 9:43 pm ¶
Lay off poor Judson. And I mean NOW.
This is the doctor talking.
He has been without his Seroquel, Zyprexa, and Haldol for a full 2 weeks. Hasn’t been able to pay for his prescriptions. Y’all are being way, way too unkind to him.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 9:44 pm ¶
LOL, Buick. I always enjoy your posts, and am not surprised in the slightest that you’re a published author. Your essays are unfailingly well thought out, and I do love the way you have with words. My e-mail address is always available to any and all, as I don’t hide who I am. On many evenings I’ll notice that anywhere from 3 to a dozen readers here will have clicked on my name and gone to my website. Some have clicked the “Contacts” section and written to me privately. So, if you’ll send your manuscripts along, I’ll edit for free. Hah! I already know that there would be nothing to change. Keep it up. Your posts are really excellent, and I like your spirit. I wish that others would act the same way a bit more of the time.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 10:29 pm ¶
Hat tip to #67. I think you said what everyone else is thinking. What’s the point here? Frankly, I do believe Judson is telling us the truth based on what he experienced.
I just don’t really care.
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 10:36 pm ¶
#82…There is a difference between the truth and Judson’s truth. With all that Judson has displayed of himself here, there and yon on the internet, do you really believe he even has a good grip on reality?
Posted 27 Aug 2008 at 11:37 pm ¶
#82-only to clarify
I believe Judson is telling everyone his truth, which is formed from his perceptions and expectations. Like I said, though, I don’t see what our point is. I completely buy that he missed paychecks or that they were late, I’m sure he had to fix the bus, I’d say he had to carry in equipment without Naomi’s help, and, honestly, she’s elderly. We’re probably dealing with naivete (sp?) on her part thinking she could pull this off. I can also assume that Justin and Kasey understood going into this they were signing on to carry on the Sego name once Naomi retired and that they were acting under that understanding. I can completely get that everything was entered to on the up and up. Then, whoever these other people are, they decided they needed to be involved, too, and now here we are. I think the whole push of them are half crazy, all of them on both sides and down the middle. I’d say in the end, though, that no one would want their family name–or their dog’s name–represented in the way Judson has chosen to represent himself. It’s unfortunate that someone like Judson who clearly isn’t equipped for a public relations fiasco was put to the wall like this, but better for the Naomi Sego family to find out now how inept his public communcations skills are than later.
Posted 28 Aug 2008 at 8:42 am ¶
#79 Buick: A little town called Carmi.
Posted 29 Aug 2008 at 9:08 am ¶
#85 jbb - I know Carmi. I went to HS in Mt. Vernon. I watched the Rams play the Bulldogs many times.
Posted 29 Aug 2008 at 2:56 pm ¶
This is beyond immaturity. This is psychotic. Maybe it would be funny if it wasn’t so pathetic. It’s sad. This guy really needs prayer, and I hope he gets help.
Posted 30 Aug 2008 at 2:46 pm ¶
#86 BUICK, the town built on a slight hill and that’s why they call it Mount Vernon, my hometown *smile*
Posted 31 Aug 2008 at 11:35 pm ¶
Gospel Has Been wrote:
All of this should not be TRIED by a court of people who thrive on controversy on this chat line. This should have been all done privately between Judson and Naomi & her family. You folks are going to keep going till southern gospel music is ruined and is no longer. Then you will say ” I sure miss Southern Gospel concerts and groups”
We need to take care of our selves not everyone involved in the gospel music industry
Posted 01 Sep 2008 at 4:01 pm ¶
RE: #89 (Gospel Has Been)
“You folks…” YOU folks???? Excuse me! I didn’t write the libelous, slanderous, nasty, immature, psychotic blog, post it for all the world to see AND send it to Doug to be sure most of the sg world DID see it. JUDSON did. And if JUDSON didn’t want it “TRIED” by the people, he should have kept his nasty attitude and bogus accusations to himself.
Posted 01 Sep 2008 at 8:16 pm ¶
KEW, I lived there and never even found the slight hill. But it was a fine place to grow up, mount or no mount.
Posted 01 Sep 2008 at 10:53 pm ¶
Has Been #89-
If you had been following this for the last 6 weeks or so, you would find that Mrs. Naomi has said VERY little publicly- and then, only in explanation/rebuttal.
On the other hand, both of these men have shown no mercy in what they have said and written publicly.
Once you throw yourself open to the public, especially in this nasty manner, makes you fair game. Had they kept quiet, none of us would be reading or writing.
The public nature of this judgment is NOT the responsibility of the commenters. They basically condemned themselves by the bitterness of their own public words.
Posted 02 Sep 2008 at 10:04 am ¶
#86 & # 88
My husbands family live in Mt. Vernon and nieces attended high school there….
Posted 02 Sep 2008 at 3:19 pm ¶
Dear Has Been-
No one might have said a word, made a comment, or posted a response, had not Judson and his friend taken this terribly public. For 6 weeks they have been bad-mouthing almost anyone with whom they have been connected.
Once you take vitriol public, you make yourself fair game. They started it. The only reason this “court of people” is trying this at all, is because Judson and his kind publicly gave us all his “evidence”.
Posted 02 Sep 2008 at 6:31 pm ¶
Every time I see this thread title I think of the words of Larry Gatlin, “Bitter they are, harder they fall.”
Posted 04 Sep 2008 at 12:23 am ¶
# 94 Dr. Joe & ALL…
Don’t pass out… but The Doc is Right!! Yeah we agree on one!!
Has Been welcome to the Party But you’re a LITTLE LATE… but welcome.
If you wanna see silliness go to MORE BITTER Thread and read some stuff that has to make ya laugh.
Some ppl do need to GET A LIFE and not seem SO SELF Important!!!
All of the evidence is THERE!!!
Posted 04 Sep 2008 at 3:20 am ¶
What is so amazing to me is that all of you people are wasting your time on this crybaby. He is obviously an idiot.
Posted 25 Oct 2008 at 12:15 am ¶
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