Wade, it still appears to me that you enjoy messing with people. At least from your post ridiculing the size of church and making statements about it that you would have no way of knowing and ones not true. I don’t mind conflicting opinions, but finding joy in jacking with people doesn’t seem good to me.

Sgfan made some great points about the classes and Ol’ Harry did too. Something I hadn’t said yet was that almost any club you join (no, I am not saying the church is a club) have membership requirements. I don’t think that many churches who even do have the classes turn people away from attending, just if you want to become a member you should share the beliefs and vision etc. This is useful for both sides. That is not to say that each member agrees on everything, but at least the main beliefs are understood. Once again, this isn’t done to weed undesirables out (although some might use it that way) or to stop people at the door.

As far as the original part of the posts, I intend on posting some of the things in point format to show my opinion. I don’t intend to get into details in that post, but make some basic points. Then we can discuss further. Not just us two, but anyone who is interested.

You may know what the church believes and teaches, but the classes gives the church a chance to know you and who you are. It gives them the chance to see if you bare the fruit you are talking about. It gives them a chance to weigh your life against scripture, but it also gives them a chance to develop a relationship with you that brings forth more than just friendship but also accountablility. Otherwise, all you may have is a social club that takes time to read the Bible.

Judging from some of your responses in recent blogs, you may need to attend some of those classes to learn what the church believes and what the Bible teaches on many particular subjects (especially that Baptist church you cite). If you want, I will reference examples. My statements, by the way, are fair game as long as you use them in context and specify where we disagree, that way you do not try to make it seem as if we are in total agreement in some “back-handed” kind of way.

I do not think I have ever insulted any one. If some one gets busted then I call it. Dr. Joe has busted me before and I did not cry about it. AND I LOVE DR. JOE

SGFAN… if you post it… it’s fair game. Get’m out of a wad. Never said we agreed on church policy.

If I have been to a Baptist Church all my life I do not need to go to a class taught by some BuBBa (usually the most self important person in the church) who know only want The Board sent him.

If I was going to some NEW kind of church or if I was a NEW believer I would not have an issue.

LOVE YA ALL!!!

Just for the record, I don’t think I backed Wade up. In fact, I did not read his posts before he referenced me. We may have came to a similar conclusion about the size of your church, but I never said you were lying and I would never rationalize in the way Wade does. That is evident from our posts on this site. The fact is, I have been involved in helping churches grow, and I have seen churches collapse before my very eyes. My comments and questions were just a way of exploring the situation you brought up and exploring the possibilities around those situations. God Bless you in your ministry.

#81 Wade

Obviously the only thing we have agreed on in a long time is what constitutes a small, medium, large, or mega church. Beyond that, I would appreciate it if you refrained from using my name to try to show some similance of agreement on church policy.

One big difference of note that we have. A person should have to go through classes and an interview process to become a member of a church ( and at the mega-church I go to they do). How can anyone be an effective member and representative of the church if they have no clue what the church teaches, believes,etc…? The church should only teach one thing, the truth of Scripture. Anything to the contrary is heresy and should not be taught. The church has to make people feel welcome, be a place where people are healed, and be a place where faith is built on the rock of scripture and not the shifting sand of skepticism and rationalism. I can guarantee you one thing, no one becomes an active member (choir member, pastoral care, usher, etc.)at my church without first going through an interview process and a training process through classes on what the church believes and teaches. Our church is thriving with way more than 4000 attendees and probably over 5000. The point is, yes people are loved when they come there, but they are loved with a love that can come only from God that exposes their sin to them and yet draws them to Him.

Harry Peters doesn’t mean to stick his nose into your and Wade’s business, so he’ll limit this post to the point that you and I agree.

Harry Peters has been in several churches that have meetings with new members. Sometimes they are called new member orientation, I’ve heard them called several different things.

I believe Wade is sincere in his beliefs about using them as a screening device, but he may have experienced situations where this was used to screen or weed out.

Old Harry Peters has not had that experience. Seems to only make sense that if new members know what the church they are joining believes and what the focus in ministry (mission statement) of that church is, there is a better chance of them joining the church that is the right fit for them.

Now Old Harry and Fonda Peters have church hopped all summer worshipping in a different church every week and usually a different denomination every week. My only point is that if people find the right church home, chances are better that they will stay there and not move from one church to another so much.

I leave you with a funny story. Old Harry and Fonda Peters were sitting in a little independent Baptist church up in the mountains of NC one Sunday evening. Old Harry Peters had been invited to speak about the mission work he was doing in Russia and the Ukraine.

Somewhere during the service they announced that there would be a special called business meeting at the end of the service.

Old Harry Peters sat all through that service staring at this place on the wall that looked like a bus had rammed through the wall. It was badly patched.

Old Harry Peters would have left before the special business meeting, except they were going to feed me and Fonda after the service…and don’t let anybody ever say Harry Peters turns down good mountain cooking. One of the deacon’s wives told Fonda that they were having “mountain oysters” on menu. Paint Harry Peters stupid, but he didn’t even realize that mountain streams had oysters.

When the meeting started, I learned that many years ago when the church was built, different families donated stained glass windows in memory of loved ones. One particular family got mad with the church and left and took their window with them.

Here it is now years later. The family that left and took the window felt bad and they were just storing it in their barn, while this little church had a patched hole in the wall where the window had been. Feeling badly, the family wanted to give the window back to the church and have it installed for them. The special business meeting was to decide if they were going to accept the window back.

Now in Fonda’s opinion, Old Harry Peters doesn’t have short comings, but Harry Peters is certainly aware of his faults. But I see a little bit of irony in the gospel as it was being lived out from that little church. A prodigal family left and took something with them that they shouldn’t have. They wanted to make things right and give it back and the church was trying to decide between being gracious and merciful or telling them where they could stick their window while they sat there service after service staring at a boarded up wall.

Come on church! Old Harry Peters says we can ALL do better and not major on the minors.

Do you see anywhere where I said for sure there were classes? Go ahead, look.
Besides, like I said, that could only be a problem to the size of the church if people wanted to join and were turned down or told they had to do that. It isn’t getting members as much as it is getting people there to begin with. We do have new people come and stay, it isn’t that we don’t. The size of small, medium and large are relative. I believe we are medium sized and in town, we are. You said SGFan backed you up, well DJPhil backed me up, so I would say we are even. That and four bucks will buy you a gallon of gas.

I don’t really care if you believe the numbers I am giving or not. I could get the numbers, but you would still believe I am a lying. Well, have at it. I know the truth and God does.

Once again an attack on Cliff. You are really something. You really seem to enjoy insulting people.

I don’t have our demographics, but we have people from around 1 year old up to 90 plus. I also said nothing about BIG families. Once again you are reading into my words and twisting them.

You are off base on the electric meter and gum wrappers too. We even let other groups use our church.

Once again with the membership classes.
My understanding of membership classes is not to keep people out, but to make sure that those who are joining know the commitment they are making. Let me tell you this, I joined the church years ago and never took a class or had a meeting with the pastor. I know others who did too.

You incestuous church comment is detestable. Even if you mention a church with related members, that is not the way to do it.

I don’t know of any who flee before the last prayer. In fact, they stick around to talk to the pastor. So there.

People do feel welcome. Our people do a great job of that. As far as reasonable teaching, if you mean teaching that calls sin a personal choice and alternative lifestyle, then guess what, ain’t gonna happen. That isn’t to say we are up there talking about the hot issues all of the time, but we aren’t going to say they are okay. If that is what it takes to grow, leave us out. I don’t want to have to give account for people going to hell believing they were okay.

Not everyone believes the exact way in the church, nor do they have to. You make an awful lot of assumptions and are dead wrong.

Your attitude shows more and more what kind of person you are. You defend those who are blatantly against God and ridicule those who attempt to preach God’s word. Well, enjoy.

I also nominate to help Old Harry Peter’s 2 ppl. His Brother Needham who will help temper some of the gay talk & EHSSQ Bashing. Both are needed, but Harry seems to sometime get carried away when he & his wife Fonda sometimes rehearse the communion service too many times for their Sunday Church Service and he just gets happy and carried away.

I know & also nominate his wife Fonda who will also help Harry in the role of INTERN or in her case a PAGE!!!