There ARE no “sects” in Christianity. If you doubt this is how it should be, read 1 Corinthians 1, where Paul makes it explicitly clear that sects and denominations were never God’s intention for His church, and are simply…not to be. I am not in a sect. I meet with a group of Christians that gather as simply as possible, to the name of the Lord Jesus Christ alone, in accordance with the NT pattern of church order. There ARE NO Baptists, Methodists, Pentecostals, Presbyterians, Nazarenes, Lutherans, Episcopalians, Catholics, etc. etc. etc. in the Bible. Or had you never noticed that?

2. Three times, I have told you that both sins (jealousy and adultery) are sin. I have shown you from both Testaments, that even though these are both sins, they were treated totally differently. You never responded to those clear examples. I said they were both wrong, numerous times. If you need the Scriptural references for same, look them up. This was simply to prove that the Oaks were not as “good” as you made them out to be, nor were the Goodmans as “horrible” as you made them out to be. What they BOTH did was sin. The degrees are different.

3. A few posts above, you wrote this:

“>>But I never knew if someone sinned it was OK for someone else to sin against the original sinner to point it out and make a big deal out of it to THE SECOND SINNER’S advantage. But Dr. Joe has told me it is an alright thing to do!! lol<<”

I NEVER said that. Never even came close to hinting at that. Not even remotely close. As I said, you grossly misrepresented and mischaracterized what I said. Those are YOUR words, and were never “cut and pasted” from mine.

It is YOU who is confused. And I am not going to over this again for you.

I am actually too nice to diagnose YOUR ILLNESS!!!

I actually SAW what kinda man you are in the OPEN thread tonight. I need not say any more!!!

But be glad…nah your not worth it!!!

You have so misrepresented and misstated what I have written 3 times, I am not going to go over it again for you. I said BOTH are sin; NEITHER are right.

You asked what I am. I’ll answer with the words of a Perrys song from their “This Is The Day” CD.

I’m saved! I’m saved! Redeemed and set free-
No longer a poor sinner lost;
For between me and the flames of hell,
Stands the blood of an old rugged cross.

I have admitted to Dr. Joe I have learned things from him because he always has a verse for EVERYTHING!! Strange we have not had any cites on this subject…just vague examples. I feel certain since I brought it up there will be a few forthcoming. LoL

But I never knew if someone sinned it was OK for someone else to sin against the original sinner to point it out and make a big deal out of it to THE SECOND SINNER’S advantage. But Dr. Joe has told me it is an alright thing to do!! lol

What sect of Christianity is this???

I admit I am a useless Baptist that believes I am saved by grace and the blood of Jesus and I only have to ask 1 time. I hope Dr. Joe will tell me what he is???

If anybody has a clue help us out…maybe Old Harry Peters JD can help us out with this dilemma???

But Nah… I am sure if some one out of your office was responsible for sending the money to the State to pay for the license and it was a clerical error I bet they would treat ya the same. I paid my dues and took the lumps. All for that minor clerical error made in a licensing dept of a lender. If you read some of those postings a little closer you will see some of the BIGGEST BANKS and LENDERS in the WORLD got their hands slapped the same way!!! They were on a mission!!! To me it was almost as bigga badge of honor as you taking the time to look it up!!! lollol

Least I got the GUTS to put out who I am and not hiding behind a simple first name.

Maybe you should give some of the ppl that post on the site some lessons in Google(ing)!!

I have now made it…Dr. Joe has Googled me… I will tell ya some thing else Dr. Joe… look harder you will find more sin in other areas!!

Must be SLOW LIFE in SD!! LOL If in fact that is where you are and IF you are really a Doc!!! lol ;-)) Least ya know who I am.

Love Ya Christian Brother!!! lollol

That has made my year!!!

whoops, almost forgot to [insert sarcasm] I coulda ended up right there with you!

Like I said, pal- two totally different lifestyles, you and me….

Backstabbing and jealousy is equal to adultery? Not in the Bible it isn’t.
Both are wrong. I told you that.

The punishment for the first sin in the OT is to be taken up by the priest. For the second sin- being stoned to death.

The punishment for the first sin in the NT is that it is dealt with by the church. The punishment for the second sin is to be excommunicated from the church.

Sound the same to you?

Let me give you an example that might help you understand.

I would get into far more trouble practicing medicine without a license in…say South Dakota, than you would
get into trouble practicing mortgage brokering or lending activities without a license in…say Georgia.

Ignorance & Unfounded???… I was in the woods behind the Ringgold, Ga Civic Center on Hwy 41 with the band partaking.

Goodman’s not jealous PULEZE!!! Why do you think they did the things they did??? Cause they could stand Toe 2 Toe singing on the merits… ya never heard the Oaks ending a song sounding being described like a controlled or not pig call.

Don’t get me wrong about the Goodman’s. If they had not been so HOLY & Judgmental about the way others lived and portrayed themselves as SO PERFECT… I would have NO PROBLEM with the theater things they pulled as far as PLANNED DUPLICATE HEALINGS and the other stunts they pulled with the exception of the way they messed with the sound system.

Face it Dr. Joe you are/were a mark. Not a totally bad thing. I was one of those ppl playing in the studio for Local Yocal Groups who came in to make themselves a PROJECT!!! I played & cut my teeth in one of those groups between the age of 13-16.

So we do agree one thing… it is all about perspective!!!

I am not “giving a pass” to anyone. There ARE degrees of sin. Any student of the Bible knows that.

The Goodmans, the Oaks, you, and I….we will ALL have to answer to God directly, and personally.

I am saying the Goodmans were not as “bad” as you have made them out to be, and the Oaks were not as “good” as you have made them out to be.

I have NEVER heard of drugs connected to the Goodmans band- and they backed us up on two albums. My brother stayed with Rusty and Billie many times- and was in Howard and Vestal’s home often. Your characterization of them is unfounded, and done somewhat in ignorance.

They were so popular, they had no reason to be “jealous” of a soul.

The Oaks got, in great measure, what they not only deserved, but asked for. Their behavior seemed to be what brought out the resultant behaviors of others.

There are very few male quartets to this day, who have ever had such an instantly recognizable and excellent sound as have had the Oaks. But as I said, it is sad to think of how they could have used their talents solely for the Lord, over these past 35 years. They are not today what the vision of Wally Fowler, Smitty Gatlin, or Herman Harper ever intended or hoped.

It is all a matter of perspective, my friend.

Yeap… we are far apart!!!

It will be pointless to continue this, as you have your mind made up, and so do I.

All I know is, regardless of the wrongs done to the ORB’s by other groups, the vast majority of what came around, was started around by them, themselves.

You may say all you wish about the Goodmans. Their lifestyles did NOT match those of the Oaks. They were never seen, time after time, getting off their bus with companions other than their spouses.

Again, in your eyes, I am one of those who are “sanctimonious”, “judgmental”, and “theological”. Sorry, Wade- but you must know that there are many who take this Christian living thing very, very seriously. 11 times in Scripture, God commands His people to “BE HOLY”.

It might surprise you to know that there are many, myself included, who realize that our lives have been redeemed from the slavemarket of sin, by precious blood; and that purchase has demanded we give our lives totally back to Him. That means to live far apart from the world, as far as we possibly can.

The Talleys sing it. It’s called “His Life for Mine”. The Booth Brothers also sing it. It’s called “Crucified with Christ”.

Reading your page, has caused me to understand just how far apart is the life I am trying to live, compared to the one you seem to be living. This means we will most likely never agree on a thing Scriptural. You have a whole different world view than have I. I am not judging you- that’s not my job. All I am saying is, that on issues like these, we will have views that are in diametric opposition.

All the best, my friend.

OK… I have read your post now and have time.

First, any belittling was brought on by self important bragging with little to back it up besides your statement. Making everyone’s opinion seem wrong with yours being the the only truth and every one else stupid. Typical though for a Doc. If it is only opinion…frame it as such. Then when you did back it up I have to say…THANKS for HELPING ME MAKE MY POINT!!!

Dr. Joe if you count the time you spent on some one’s bus in HOURS… I appreciate you in helping me make my point. That really makes you nothing more than a MARK. Not much above the women that were on that bus. You were on there for THEM to SELL YOU SOMETHING!!! That’s not a big deal. But I have no doubt you were sincere in your visit… EDDIE CROOK was not in that BiZ YET!! lol

If playing on the same stage and setting on a bus makes you important or your opinions more correct and has the effect of changing history… then we should just shut this [Edit] down and allow me to write and tell every one how to think & feel!!! LoL

Oh yeah… The Oaks sold out many places…which is why Goodman’s were so jealous… and did what they did to eliminate them as competition. Glad you admitted they did sell out venues at some point, again helping me make my point.

Sorry that they messed up the keyboard. But does not seem that they did it on purpose.

“Their long hair, scruffy outfits and appearances”…were the common dress of the day for many entertainers… (Someone recently on the JASON Thread going called it THE HOBO LOOK… another poster made the same point I just did.)…. Maybe it’s not OK in the sanctimonious world you live in… but hey they have done OK in the end. Never been to their concerts they did not sing gospel music and have a positive word. Making them the act that has sang gospel music in front of the most ppl if that could be discerned accurately. Elvis & The Stamps probably on the same list.

As far as the way they behaved, the very ppl I am banging here, Sanctimonious Christian Performers, I have smoked the killer weed with those kind of performers band members in the woods behind a venue…(RUSTY had a great band too in the last years)…oh AND with some of those very kinds of performers ON THEIR BUS. But yet they were the very ppl going around earlier judging others.

The back of one groups bus regularly had so much smoke coming out of the rear exhaust fan it appeared a NEW POPE had been elected. But they would go out every night and shout and HAVE CHURCH!!!

Yes Vestal mellowed a little over the years when many of the PPL she LOVED ended up being some of the biggest drug users, homosexuals & womanizers on the face of God’s Green Earth.

Someone tell me if I am wrong. But weren’t the Goodman’s on just about every Gaither Video except the Oak Tribute and the Cathedral’s Tribute The ORB’s were on??? Seems they were together on a REGULAR video once but always thought it was funny they did not appear much together later later. But Vestal loved Michael English, Larry Gatlin & George Jones when it was convenient and they were in NO DANGER OF being supplanted as The Queen.

I do stand up comedy and have not only sat on Ron White’s Bus, but have spent the night on it. That does not make me funny. He was not even trying to SELL ME A RECORDING CONTRACT.

I have vacationed in the Caribbean with Duane. I have spent DAYS with Don Breland’s family. That does not mean my opinion counts any more than any one else’s. IT REALLY does not allow me to rewrite history and make it true despite reality. Which is what it appeared you were doing.

I even have the Music Minister of a Future Mega Church on my side. I wanna help him do it. I have banged on him unmercifully… but he has thick skin and a sense of humor and does not take things so personally.

I admitted on here that I have learned things from your theological writings. Even as judgmental as they are. But when I say The Oaks were forced out the Gospel Music Door to go country, do not then blame it ALL on them and give passes to the jealous, judgmental, backstabbing ppl who were as BIGGA SINNERS than the OAKS and held the door open for their exit after yelling FIRE!!!

Yes, The Oaks may have done things wrong, but the life’s they lived were not worse than The Goodman’s.

I think you have even said before it is OK to judge ppl if a person lives THAT kinda good life and have said it is NOT OK if a person does not live the GOOD LIFE… believe me… The Goodman’s did not live well enough to pass the kinda judgment they did.

Despite your Brother or who ever rode the Goodman Bus one summer as a product slinger and had a picture made in front of an APPLE TREE!! That does not make his opinion count more that others. Adam & Eve got in trouble in front of an APPLE TREE!!! LoL;-)

So Dr. Joe, my friend, I love ya. If something is JUST an OPINION obviously frame it that way, & try not to be SOOOO JUDGMENTAL doing it!!! You are better than that!!! Leave it to God, He can handle it ALL… HE LIVED the GOOD LIFE!!!

Still Missing Old Harry Peter’s, LeeBob, CVH, SGFan, NoN & Cliif C. Also still waitin’ on old John Masters to decode some of his brief uninspired comments about me. Come on John let’s go… I can take it. QMAN and I have thick skin, broad shoulders, a sense of humor and the ability to stand up to idiots. QMAN even stood up to me!!! LoL ;-) So come on Johnny Boy…bring it!!!!

Did you ever open for the Oaks? Did you ever sit on their bus with them for 2 hours, working on a recording contract, and coming within a whisker of signing with them?

Well, my brother and I did just that.

One night, we opened for them. Just us and them. We were about 60 miles from our home. Believe me- NO ONE came there to hear us! I had just received that day, from the Wurlitzer company, a brand-new demo electronic keyboard- one of the very first. It had leg extensions, and I played it standing up.

Tony Brown (Tarzan), was enamored by it, and asked us if they could use it too, and of course, we said “yes”.

As my brother and I were heading to the backstage for the concert to start, William Lee came up to us and asked us if we could provide him a list of our songs that night. I pulled it out of my coat pocket, and he looked at it in silence. Then, he took a pen and said “Well, you’re not singing this one, this one, this one, this one, and especially not this one.” I said “OK sir- but why not?” He said “we are singing those songs tonight, and you boys are not. Especially THIS one (Redemption Draweth Nigh), because it’s my solo.” So, in the midst of the ending of his solo, as he was preparing to belt out the tag, he pounded on my new piano, and it went totally dead. He had knocked the whole circuit board out of commission. Duane asked for us to come up and try to fix it- I had not even had the time to take it apart yet…and long story short, their planned wonderful first-half ending fell completely flat, and both we and they had to haul up an old piano for the second half.

His arrogance was amazing. On top of that, they rolled in with two loaded buses. One for band and equipment; two, the Oaks with their ladies of that evening (NOT their wives). There were 1000 people in the building, and another 1000 outside, who could not get tickets to get in.

I’m not saying that other groups did not give them a hard time. Many did. But I can tell you- the Oaks brought most of it upon themselves. Their long hair, scruffy outfits and appearances, the carousing of their band members, their behavior off of the stage and in their buses, was a far, far cry from what Smitty Gatlin and Herman Harper ever envisioned.

Not too long after that, my brother and I sat with them on their bus outside of a sing at a high school in New Jersey. They were the only ones there, and the place was packed out. We worked on details of a recording package with them for a long time, and almost signed- something just didn’t feel right to me. We didn’t sign, and a few weeks later, they declared their allegiance to country music.

It is not all as you say. To the end, at least in some places, they did very, very well. Most of the criticism they took, was brought on by themselves and their behavior, and was well-deserved. They are still remarkable talents. It is just really sad that for all these years, they have not been using their talents as they could have, for the Lord.