Comments on: Double threat http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/ Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music Wed, 23 May 2012 17:42:28 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: Ellis http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-1086876 Ellis Sun, 24 Jan 2010 00:57:37 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-1086876 Why argue over style. It's the message that counts. Secular music speaks of sin and sinners. Gospel is about a life changing experience. Personally, to me there is no comparison. Music is good. But when comparing, it's like comparing a beautiful apple to a beautiful apple with worms in it. Secular has nice sound, but deep down it has worms, and leads one into deeper recesses of sin and destruction. However with artists crossing over and making lyrics sounding so much kike gospel music, but still is not. Gospel music can only be sung effectively by those living the gospel and not trying to entertain both secular and christian Why argue over style. It’s the message that counts. Secular music speaks of sin and sinners. Gospel is about a life changing experience. Personally, to me there is no comparison.
Music is good. But when comparing, it’s like comparing a beautiful apple to a beautiful apple with worms in it. Secular has nice sound, but deep down it has worms, and leads one into deeper recesses of sin and destruction. However with artists crossing over and making lyrics sounding so much kike gospel music, but still is not. Gospel music can only be sung effectively by those living the gospel and not trying to entertain both secular and christian

]]> By: TERRY http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-783891 TERRY Sat, 24 Jan 2009 04:58:13 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-783891 From the past jd , london and rex were hard to beat,now hester, mcdonald chaptman and pearls are hard to beat. All of these guys are great!! From the past jd , london and rex were hard to beat,now hester, mcdonald chaptman and pearls are hard to beat. All of these guys are great!!

]]> By: nonSGfan http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-750553 nonSGfan Wed, 24 Dec 2008 22:07:39 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-750553 singer singer

]]> By: wackythinker http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-739947 wackythinker Mon, 15 Dec 2008 17:59:57 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-739947 perikoresis #46 - Not sure you can lay all of Bill's power over GVB on his piano playing. He is the owner of the group, you know. A great accompanist doesn't wield his power over the singer(s), and great musicians wouldn't take power away from the producer. If you've seen that happen, it's the particular individual(s), not so much musicians generically. In order to be a great musician in s/g, a person needs to be a gracious human being. Just as no member of the quartet should intentionally out-shine the rest of the group, no musician should overpower, either. perikoresis #46 - Not sure you can lay all of Bill’s power over GVB on his piano playing. He is the owner of the group, you know.

A great accompanist doesn’t wield his power over the singer(s), and great musicians wouldn’t take power away from the producer. If you’ve seen that happen, it’s the particular individual(s), not so much musicians generically.

In order to be a great musician in s/g, a person needs to be a gracious human being. Just as no member of the quartet should intentionally out-shine the rest of the group, no musician should overpower, either.

]]> By: perikoresis http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-733268 perikoresis Thu, 11 Dec 2008 03:02:35 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-733268 Power and Job Security. . . one musician in a quartet playing the piano would have power over the entire group (a la Bill Gaither). . . an entire quartet playing instruments would take power away from the producer, who has carefully arranged each number for maximum effect. You can't obviously upstage your peers without developing a reputation, you may not even be perceived to upstage the producer without losing your job. Power and Job Security. . . one musician in a quartet playing the piano would have power over the entire group (a la Bill Gaither). . . an entire quartet playing instruments would take power away from the producer, who has carefully arranged each number for maximum effect. You can’t obviously upstage your peers without developing a reputation, you may not even be perceived to upstage the producer without losing your job.

]]> By: Pianodude http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-724543 Pianodude Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:18:21 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-724543 By the way, I'm a soloist who is trying to make it in this cruel buisness too!!! By the way, I’m a soloist who is trying to make it in this cruel buisness too!!!

]]> By: Pianodude http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-724535 Pianodude Tue, 02 Dec 2008 23:15:04 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-724535 Wow!!! Amen to #s 42 & 43. I play the piano at my church and our musicians definitely have some of the magic. Grantite we have some bugs to work out sometimes, but overall, I think we do pretty good in front of about 200-250 every Sunday morning. Of course, I am only 13, so I'm the backup keyboardist. I don't really like the head keyboardist too much, either. He's sort of...INSANE!!! Oh well. maybye there will be a good group with all musicians that just comes up all of the sudden one day. Wow!!! Amen to #s 42 & 43. I play the piano at my church and our musicians definitely have some of the magic. Grantite we have some bugs to work out sometimes, but overall, I think we do pretty good in front of about 200-250 every Sunday morning. Of course, I am only 13, so I’m the backup keyboardist. I don’t really like the head keyboardist too much, either. He’s sort of…INSANE!!! Oh well. maybye there will be a good group with all musicians that just comes up all of the sudden one day.

]]> By: Howland Sharpe http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-720487 Howland Sharpe Sat, 29 Nov 2008 20:51:13 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-720487 Alan, Perhaps so. I wasn't there and it would only be my opinion anyway. I understand that there are budget considerations in all this. Some groups simply have to rely on technology rather than spending all day trying to get a verse and a chorus for one song, but if it takes that much, perhaps they ought to question this whole music thing. Maybe there's something they'd be better at. I know that God can still use anyone, even those with limited talent, but He could also use them in something else. You're right about the magic. When it's there, it's there. Alan,

Perhaps so. I wasn’t there and it would only be my opinion anyway. I understand that there are budget considerations in all this. Some groups simply have to rely on technology rather than spending all day trying to get a verse and a chorus for one song, but if it takes that much, perhaps they ought to question this whole music thing. Maybe there’s something they’d be better at. I know that God can still use anyone, even those with limited talent, but He could also use them in something else.

You’re right about the magic. When it’s there, it’s there.

]]> By: Alan http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-719055 Alan Fri, 28 Nov 2008 22:52:21 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-719055 That was super-interesting, Howland. As for the guy who walked out and told the engineers to take it from there, wow... what an attitude. You made an interesting point about the endings of songs, and how linear they sound, and you're entirely correct. On my last project, I ended one line, but the backing singers held it about a half measure longer than I did on my finish vocal. Frankly, I just flat ran out of air. To watch the engineer even it all out was wonderful to me, as the end result was far more professional. But, if your point is that the new tools have sanitized things to the point where it's just "too perfect", I think I agree. You guys who inhabit the dark side have a plethora of amazing tools these days. I think this all started with a comment on The Greenes, and how they quit after just a few takes, because they were happy with one. Chances are they could have sung a better take, but when the magic's there, I believe they were right in letting it go. Do you agree? That was super-interesting, Howland. As for the guy who walked out and told the engineers to take it from there, wow… what an attitude.

You made an interesting point about the endings of songs, and how linear they sound, and you’re entirely correct. On my last project, I ended one line, but the backing singers held it about a half measure longer than I did on my finish vocal. Frankly, I just flat ran out of air. To watch the engineer even it all out was wonderful to me, as the end result was far more professional. But, if your point is that the new tools have sanitized things to the point where it’s just “too perfect”, I think I agree. You guys who inhabit the dark side have a plethora of amazing tools these days. I think this all started with a comment on The Greenes, and how they quit after just a few takes, because they were happy with one. Chances are they could have sung a better take, but when the magic’s there, I believe they were right in letting it go. Do you agree?

]]> By: Howland Sharpe http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-717397 Howland Sharpe Thu, 27 Nov 2008 18:03:07 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-717397 Alan, I can even deal with rasp, but you are exactly right: all the tricks in the world can't "make" a great vocal. What these tools are great for is taking a great performance that's maybe a little pitchy and tweaking it. I would encourage all artists, though, to have the musical integrity to give it the very best you have. Don't be like the guy I heard about in a Berry Hill studio 2 days ago that did his vocal in 20 minutes, took his headphones off, and walked out the door, saying he was finished. "I'll let you guys take it from here" he said as he fumbled for his car keys. His vocal sucked. He was miles out of the pocket, and almost a half step off some of the pitches. To all who may be reading this: Listen, particularly, to the ends of phrases when a group is holding a chord out, like the end of a song. Hear that machine-like quality it has? Hear the unreal linear sound it has? Is this pleasing to you? If it is, God help you. Now, go back and listen to some pre-pitch-correction era S. Gospel music (sometime before the mid-nineties). Listen to some early 90's Gold City or the Cats. To me there's no comparison, the earlier stuff has soul, the newer stuff sounds like my computer. I am not completely anti pitch-correction, however. It has breathed new life into some older groups. The Inspirations could peel paint off the wall before it. They sucked so bad it made my vacuum cleaner jealous. Now they are tolerable. Sometimes. Alan,
I can even deal with rasp, but you are exactly right: all the tricks in the world can’t “make” a great vocal. What these tools are great for is taking a great performance that’s maybe a little pitchy and tweaking it. I would encourage all artists, though, to have the musical integrity to give it the very best you have. Don’t be like the guy I heard about in a Berry Hill studio 2 days ago that did his vocal in 20 minutes, took his headphones off, and walked out the door, saying he was finished. “I’ll let you guys take it from here” he said as he fumbled for his car keys. His vocal sucked. He was miles out of the pocket, and almost a half step off some of the pitches.

To all who may be reading this: Listen, particularly, to the ends of phrases when a group is holding a chord out, like the end of a song. Hear that machine-like quality it has? Hear the unreal linear sound it has? Is this pleasing to you? If it is, God help you. Now, go back and listen to some pre-pitch-correction era S. Gospel music (sometime before the mid-nineties). Listen to some early 90’s Gold City or the Cats. To me there’s no comparison, the earlier stuff has soul, the newer stuff sounds like my computer.

I am not completely anti pitch-correction, however. It has breathed new life into some older groups. The Inspirations could peel paint off the wall before it. They sucked so bad it made my vacuum cleaner jealous. Now they are tolerable. Sometimes.

]]> By: Alan http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-716366 Alan Thu, 27 Nov 2008 01:00:51 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-716366 You're right on both points, Howland. I was very unspecific on one, and I pulled a brain freeze on calling Antares Alessis. I had meant to suggest that ProTools can only improve pitch, not make a bad vocal a great one...unless you can tell me something that I don't know. My last two CD's were recorded with ProTools, and I marvel at how it works. On occasion, my phrasing was either stretched or shortened and the like, but a raspy vocal stays raspy, etc. Or am I wrong? You’re right on both points, Howland. I was very unspecific on one, and I pulled a brain freeze on calling Antares Alessis.

I had meant to suggest that ProTools can only improve pitch, not make a bad vocal a great one…unless you can tell me something that I don’t know. My last two CD’s were recorded with ProTools, and I marvel at how it works. On occasion, my phrasing was either stretched or shortened and the like, but a raspy vocal stays raspy, etc. Or am I wrong?

]]> By: Howland Sharpe http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-716014 Howland Sharpe Wed, 26 Nov 2008 19:31:26 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-716014 #38, "It can’t perfect imperfect vocals." Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but you have to be kidding. This is what I do EVERYDAY, perfect imperfect vocals. I can make ANYBODY sound like they're a singer. And frankly, some of the "top-tier" artists mentioned in these blogs from GVB members to Sig. Sound, ALL have been aided, some to a much larger degree than others, by vocal tuning. Some of the spectacularly low notes, and some of the high ones, have been sung up to 2 or 3 notes shy of the note and "pulled" up or down by a tuner. Sorry to burst some bubbles out there, but those of us that practice the dark arts of pitch and pocket correction know the cold hard truth. I think you meant Antares, not Alessis. #38,

“It can’t perfect imperfect vocals.”

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but you have to be kidding. This is what I do EVERYDAY, perfect imperfect vocals. I can make ANYBODY sound like they’re a singer. And frankly, some of the “top-tier” artists mentioned in these blogs from GVB members to Sig. Sound, ALL have been aided, some to a much larger degree than others, by vocal tuning. Some of the spectacularly low notes, and some of the high ones, have been sung up to 2 or 3 notes shy of the note and “pulled” up or down by a tuner. Sorry to burst some bubbles out there, but those of us that practice the dark arts of pitch and pocket correction know the cold hard truth.

I think you meant Antares, not Alessis.

]]> By: Alan http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-710481 Alan Sat, 22 Nov 2008 03:39:57 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-710481 Um...are there studios anywhere that don't use ProTools these days? Other than home boards and the like? I have no idea what the disagreement is on this. If Taranda Greene and the guys heard that early take, and loved it, more power to them. ProTools is what its name implies, a great tool. It can't perfect imperfect vocals. Pitch correction gear, by Alessis or others, has been around for a decade. It's no big deal to me. It's simply taking advantage of all tools out there to end up with a better product. One could say that the folks who recorded twenty years ago gave us a more pure product; but they used whatever technology was available to them at the time, I'm sure. And, twenty years from now, singers will take full advantage of whatever's available then. Um…are there studios anywhere that don’t use ProTools these days? Other than home boards and the like? I have no idea what the disagreement is on this. If Taranda Greene and the guys heard that early take, and loved it, more power to them. ProTools is what its name implies, a great tool. It can’t perfect imperfect vocals. Pitch correction gear, by Alessis or others, has been around for a decade. It’s no big deal to me. It’s simply taking advantage of all tools out there to end up with a better product. One could say that the folks who recorded twenty years ago gave us a more pure product; but they used whatever technology was available to them at the time, I’m sure. And, twenty years from now, singers will take full advantage of whatever’s available then.

]]> By: Extra Ink http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-708990 Extra Ink Fri, 21 Nov 2008 01:36:52 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-708990 #35, Absolutely I'm sure there was Pro Tools used on that song and the whole project. Also, I can promise you that Pro Tools or some such tuning software is used on nearly every country record done in Nashville...including Carrie Underwood's records. #35,

Absolutely I’m sure there was Pro Tools used on that song and the whole project.

Also, I can promise you that Pro Tools or some such tuning software is used on nearly every country record done in Nashville…including Carrie Underwood’s records.

]]> By: John http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-706790 John Wed, 19 Nov 2008 16:01:47 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2008/11/15/double-threat/#comment-706790 #35, as with most people, you seem to believe that your opinion is the factual one. I see an epidemic of this in the blogging world. As has been stated so many times, beauty is in the ear of the listener. It's very subjective. You want to believe that country singers are better, go right ahead. It is my opinion that you are wrong. But, opinions are like noses, everybody has one. My only intent in my posts here is to say that there are people as smart as any of you, who have a great musical acumen, who have an ear for pitch, who just happen to think that the top tier of SG is a superior form of music. #35, as with most people, you seem to believe that your opinion is the factual one. I see an epidemic of this in the blogging world.

As has been stated so many times, beauty is in the ear of the listener. It’s very subjective.

You want to believe that country singers are better, go right ahead.

It is my opinion that you are wrong. But, opinions are like noses, everybody has one.

My only intent in my posts here is to say that there are people as smart as any of you, who have a great musical acumen, who have an ear for pitch, who just happen to think that the top tier of SG is a superior form of music.

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