“How can he listen to that?”

From a recent interview with former Gaither Vocal Bander Terry Franklin and his wife, Barbie (h/t, NG):

AFAJ: What is something significant that you did not know about your spouse prior to marriage?

TF: I grew up loving Southern Gospel quartet music, and that is not something that Barbi shares.

BF: It wasn’t until about six years into our marriage that it started coming out, and I would ask, “How can he listen to that?” It was so funny because after a while we started doing a lot more songwriting and that was one of the styles we began to write. Now, I think we’re probably known more for our Southern Gospel writing than any other style of music. I still don’t love Southern Gospel music, but I do appreciate it. [And] I appreciate Terry for who he is.”

Judging by a very unscientific survey I just did from memory in my mind, this sort of musically mixed marriage is a pretty common phenomenon. Off the top of my head, I can think of half a dozen or so relationships in which one person is a musician, performer, songwriter, or other sort of industry insider in a longterm relationship with someone who not only didn’t grow up with any significant exposure to sg, but also actively dislikes it, or did initially at any rate (of course the Gaithers are the classic example of this, and Bill Gaither has written about it at some length). Though the interview doesn’t go into the matter in any more depth, I suspect Barbie Franklin’s initial reaction to sg was not unlike those with which I am more familiar: a kind of instinctive surface revulsion to what at first sounds hopelessly unsophisticated and artistically incurious music.

With time and patience and the kind of longsuffering spirit in which one will do the otherwise unimaginable for love of another person, the sg outsider usually comes round to a reluctant appreciation for sg, as Barbie Franklin seems to describe here. A few of these precious souls will even manage an NQC visit at some point in their lives (if you ask really really nicely and promise plenty of stiff drinks afterwards). And they’ll usually come away both with some of their more ungenerous opinions confirmed (especially if they walk through the holy fleamarket in the NQC exhibit hall) but also with a surprised sense of how beautiful and evocative and soul-stirring it can be when the musical moment seems to reverberate in harmony with one’s very beating heart. Like Franklin, they may never come to love sg like we do, but they no longer wonder “how can he listen to that?” And they’re just a little more considerate - there’s just a titch less edge in their voices - when they ask, “can you turn that down a little … please?”

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  1. Edie wrote:

    This has a very familiar ring to it for me!

  2. wanderer wrote:

    Yeah me too. My wife and kids do not like SG. I’ve been hooked on it since I was 10. Yet they went to the Gaithers with me and said it was one of the best concerts they had ever been to.

  3. John wrote:

    That’s my life. My wife of 30 years has attended a couple of concerts with me and was miserable.

    One of my quartet friends asked my wife who I had taken her to see . . . and she replied “The Cathedrals and the Statesmen”.

    He said, “Well, at least she learned to hate us from the best we had to offer!”

  4. DrummingDrew wrote:

    I too know about this all too well. My wife cannot stand SG with a few exceptions (Some Crabb Family, GV, & Hoppers). I think this is simply because she hasn’t seen many others in concert and she has seen these three at least several times. To me, SG is not like other genres and immediately makes an impression when you pop in a CD. There is definitely a spiritual context to it and once you experience it in concert, it translates to the CD listening experience and makes it more enjoyable as you “remember the time” that you had during that particular concert.

  5. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    You give me much comfort in the realization you are a viewer of the website of the American Family Association.
    Talking about taking the focus of “keeping marriage together” of oganization out of context.
    I would rather discuss the ties that bind than what might be subject of intense discussions with any given husband and wife.

  6. Auke wrote:

    My wife hates (Southern) Gospel more than anything…she can’t stand it. I’ve been enjoying annoying her for years now…lol.
    The only thing out of my Gospel vault she likes is David Phelps…i caught her crying while David was singing ‘No more night’.
    Other than that she just hates it!


  7. not a grammarian wrote:

    This is the story of my life also. My wife works on the CCM side of Christian music, and I’ve got to admit, given the choice of Casting Crowns or the Inspirations, we’re going to see Casting Crowns.
    She one concession she’ll make is that she does enjoy those groups with live bands, but since the breakup of the Crabb Family, there’s just not much out there

  8. Ron F wrote:

    Wow, how can you hate Southern Gospel. SG has been good to me financially, and it has paid alot of my Bills. I too know people who do not like it. But even it it hadnt paid me a dime I would love it. The message is Direct you dont have to wonder what the artist is trying to say.

  9. Gear Hound wrote:

    Franklin’s wife didn’t say she hated Southern Gospel music, she just doesn’t love it. Shoot, I LOVE Southern Gospel, but there’s even some of it I can’t stand.

  10. wanderer wrote:

    I guess I love many types of music. I can sit and listen to Don Gibson, Jim Reeves, Queen, Pat Benatar, Shania Twain, Newsboys, Zoegirl, Olivia Newton-John, Ronnie Milsap, Def Leppard etc etc and enjoy them all. I even like some jazz. But SG has always been my first love. If it’s well done it entertains me and ministers to me both. I too fail to see how someone can dislike it. It’s unique. I can understand how someone can like another type of music more, but to dislike it? But as I mentioned above, my wife does not like it. She says it’s the same old tired phrases and tunes all the time and you can hardly tell one songf from the other. I guess though when I examine the groups that I have liked through the years, they were always edgy for their time. Imperials, Sig Sound, Downings, Oaks, Statesmen.

  11. Bob wrote:

    OK, lets see, I’m trying to think of a reason this commentator would write something about or quote someone’s wife to make her husband look bad? Hmm. ok he himself must be in a bad marriage. Oh wait ” He’s Gay ” so that cant be it. Hmm

  12. Brett wrote:

    Kelly Nelon does a better version of No More Night than David Phelps.

  13. Auke wrote:

    I never heard Kelly Nelon do No More Night…is it on youtube by any chance?
    I truly am curious if she does a better version though….intriqued really.


  14. Tim wrote:

    Glen Campbell is my favorite version of “No More Night”. A song like that would be good even if Doug sings it.

  15. thom wrote:

    Boxcar Willie did a nice “No More Night”. No Wait. That was “No More Tonight,” sorry. Or was it “One More Tonight.” hmm. nevermind.

  16. Tad Kirkland wrote:

    Brett, I am shocked anyone else other than me would prefer Kelly Nelon over David Phelps!
    Kelly recorded “No More Night” on her 1985 Word recording, Praise Him Now. It’s a great recording that finds her capably pulling off Sandy Patti-like material. Songs from this recording including “No More Night” is available along with other highlights of her solo records are available on the compilation CD, Still Her Father’s Child: http://www.thenelons.com/store/3.html.

  17. Gear Hound wrote:

    Rod Stewart did “Tonight’s The Night.”

  18. TERRY wrote:

    David Phelps did do a fine job of no more nights but I must agree Kelly Nelons cut was much smoother, she probably did it 20 years ago. As for the casting crowns Inspirations comment, I don’t think there would be a casting crowns or another contemporary act had it not been for our Southern Gospel Pioneers!!!!!!

  19. Brett wrote:

    I have mp3 of Kelly’s version. She did it on her “Still Her Father’s Child” cd.

  20. Gear Hound wrote:

    #11 WHO is gay?

  21. ROTFLMAO wrote:

    When did Averyfineline go comedy? Nelon vs. Phelps? That is the absolute funniest thing since Screech did celebrity boxing!

  22. Bob wrote:

    The Commentator!!!!!!!!

  23. Wade wrote:

    Ahh Bob # 11… WoW… how do you get this thread as hatin’ on the Franklin’s??? How did it make Terry look bad??? What kinda bug do you have in your butt?? Go slither back under your rock!!

    You folks want something constructive to talk about and he post it and you still find some kinda BS… he must be LOTS BIGGER THAN YOU just to publish your low down post!!!

    This is a great thread. I have driven many ppl in my life crazy making them listen to Gold City, Cathedrals, Kingsmen and MY FAV…The Oaks!!

    Bob buddy in my eyes and in the eyes of many I am sure you just joined the LOW DOWN dr. joe Club!!!

    God Rest Your Souls!!

  24. Brett wrote:

    Phil Collins did “One More Night”. What does this have 2 do with songs having night in them??????????

    Tad I am full agreement. Kelly’s is version of “No More Night” is smooth and soothing. I don’t care for Glen Campbell’s version.

  25. Beth wrote:

    #24 - Our Pastor was going to sing “No More Night” at a Sunday morning service. When our Minister of Music did the introduction he said “Pastor Brian will now sing ‘One More Night’…” we about lost it.

  26. Gospel Has Been wrote:

    #12 Kelly (Nelon) Clark has not got a better version of anything by anybody YULK!

  27. Grassroots wrote:

    I don’t know if Doug is gay, but he is openly liberal, and (if my memory serves me correctly), has pounded SG artists for taking a stand against against homosexuality.

  28. promogurl wrote:

    Does anyone know why Terry Franklin wasn’t at the GVB Reunion?

  29. MM wrote:

    Kelly has my vote as well. It was her version of the song I heard first and it’s still the one I like best.

  30. Bob wrote:

    Wade, # 23 ok you are obviously are very close friends of the commentator if you know what I mean. And think about this for a sec, this guy spends his time criticizing others.. Let me repeat, “Criticizing”. And I’m some kind of a piece of crap? Dude, if you find no fault in this kind of person and how he spends his time then have at it. And if he’s so proud of himself for this blog site and thinks he’s doing the right thing, then lets see how much integrity he has and let him come out of the closet openly to the southern Gospel crowd and lets see how they receive him. I mean if he loves criticizing so much, why not air out his own laundry and see how many friends he has after that. And lets see, hmmm should I be directing this post to you as well? I wonder..hmmm. Maybe so. Lastly, here’s a post that everybody should read about Terry Franklin.


  31. Jeff wrote:

    For all you looking for the Kelly Nelon clip of “No More Night”, I put up 2day after reading your posts. It’s not the complete song.


  32. CG wrote:

    Bob (#30),

    1) No one forces you to read AVFL’s writings! Why not just keep your integrity filled rear away from Doug’s site?

    2) I’m curious about your fascination with others’ sexual orientation. Care to explain?

    3) My own fascination with gossip about gay relationships in SG is due to the “bit dog barks the loudest” syndrome which is SO prevalent in this genre that I so dearly love; yet, I can be winked and nodded at with my fascination with the opposite sex (after all, MY sin is not “an abomination” so the Lord must be okay with it). (Surely, Bob, YOU know what I mean!)

    4) Let’s air all YOUR laundry so that YOUR friends can choose whether or not to cast the first stone (I’m sure your friends are as spotless, pure, and without sin as you).

    5) Well, perhaps I should bring my remarks to a close. I do feel better (for) now.

  33. Bob wrote:

    CG, go ahead and defend Homosexuality if you want to. I mean why should any of us say anything about sin right? If you’re correct then no one including a pastor should ever speak out against any sin. That is tired and worn out argument your using. I have no fascination with that disgusting life style. I will however say that I am not a homosexual, and I find it deplorable. Just the idea of a man having sex with another man, turns my stomach as it does many others. The problem is people like you are trying to stop anyone from speaking out against that mess. Why don’t you take a stand and defend pedophiles? What’s next? So because I have sin in my life, which every one does, then I should never speak out? Obviously your sympathetic to Homosexuals or you are one yourself.


  34. CG wrote:

    Bob, my friend, you really ARE obsessing with the idea of same sex relationships (at least the male-male version)! If you’re truly ONLY concerned about your perceptions of your brothers’ and sisters’ (in Christ) “failures” (lest you forget, women having sex with women should, by your standards, make you equally nauseated), then continue to pray for them! I would, Christian to Christian, like to address one other thing with you.

    I have been a long-time reader of this website. I read because I have a true appreciation of Doug’s God-given talent. I must admit, shamefully, I find some sort of attraction to a tidbit of gossip, as well.

    During my visits, I do not recall Doug ever posting any admission / proclamation of having sex with either gender…maybe I missed that tidbit. I do know that in your rant during post #33, you questioned the possibility of me being “Homosexual”. Well, I’m not. I say that to say this. You may be wrong. you may be bearing false witness. That’s a sin.

    My sexual misconduct has been limited to fornication and adultery against the most wonderful woman in the world that led to the ruin of my marriage. Yes, it was, and still is, a sin. I have been forgiven.

    I will pray for you tonight, that whatever the bitterness is in your heart about those “sins” that you seem to be choosing to “say anything about”, you will reconcile within your heart (and find peace). Grace is an amazing thing.

  35. Rick wrote:

    Re:#33: Bob, I am gay. Your vitriol is what turns my stomach. Your self-righteousness disgusts me. And, by the way, it is my sexuality. It is not a “lifestyle.” I agree of some of the other posters. It has been my experience that men who rail the loudest against gay men are insecure in their own masculinity and are probably closet cases themselves.

  36. TERRY wrote:

    gospel has been wrote is obviously obsessed with a male tenor. Kelly Nelon does a great job on this song!!!!!!!!!!!!

  37. Bob wrote:

    CG, Thank you for praying for me as we all should pray for each other. I will pray for you as well. And this rick guy, well need I say more. First of all, I do not give the smallest hair on a nats left cheek what either one of you think of my feelings about that particular sin. I am not obsessed with that at all. I absolutely love everybody and hate the sin. I will not ever concern myself with what any homosexual, Lifestyle Chooser, thinks of my beliefs either. There is no hatred in my heart for anybody at all. I’m not a name caller either; I just find this entire discussion funny. The reason I started this thing tonight because of Gossip and bad mouthing. And isn’t it funny how you defend this guy who trashes people everyday of his life. I’d love to know how you think that’s any worse whatsoever than what you think I may have done wrong. I made the original point because here’s a guy that is a closet Homosexual and he spends his time trashing and criticizing people. Amazing!!!!!!!! That you talk to me as if I have some kind of bitterness in my heart. I guess you would say the same thing if I called out a pedophile? Man this world is so lost and getting worse everyday. I will say however to both of you….Nice try!!

  38. Bob wrote:

    Ok, I can’t help myself. Couple more things. CG, I’m really not mad at all in fact I’m actually kinda sitting here laughing. but Your praising a guys talent of trashing people. Wow! amazing again. And your talking to me about bearing false witness and defending a guy who again, trashes people with arrogance non stop. Another Wow! Dude come on. Now really!!! His quoting Barbi Franklin certainly wasn’t to make her look good.

  39. Wade wrote:

    Bob… I have never met Dr. DH!!! But I knew a jack ass when I read your writing!! HUMMM all ya want you are probably good at it.

    I will let CG & Rick speak for me as they said it as well I as I could.

    This is not a site to talk about your curiosity with having sex with another man. DR. DH’s sexuality has nothing to do with the discussions that goes on here except for you and [edit] dr. joe.

    This was a viable topic about how spouses and friends of SGM lover accept the music… YOU are the one that dragged the sex part into it… the way you did it you could drag it up with anything that is written.

    I am still wondering how DR. DH’s sexuality and your obsession with imaging 2 men having sex are related to how any ones partner relates to SGM???

    You and dr joe [edit] and the likes go start your own blog where you can talk about the music with out imagining 2 men having sex and y’all can quote bible verses to each other… judge each other and everybody else and leave the rest of us alone.


  40. quartet-man wrote:

    I personally think it was brought up out of interest and for discussion and not to slam someone. It is interesting that there are families who are split into the loving it, not loving it category. Especially performers. Barbi and the comment in the article was simply the vehicle to bring the discussion here.

  41. Bob wrote:

    Wade, nice try, curiosity has nothing to do with anything I’m thinking or saying. Nor does fascination, nor does anything else. The only curiosity or fascination I have is this blog site trashing others and possibly making it harder for them to get or keep a job because big mouth people find it fun to criticize others craft publicly. That is why I brought all of this up. Again, nice try.

  42. JRod wrote:

    I am a gay man that happens to like SG music. I think Doug is a terrific person, gay or not, because he shares what he feels are valid points in an industry where criticism is a “sin”. And you don’t have to be in a heterosexual relationship to feel the angst of a partner who doesn’t share your love for the genre. Please stop living in the ideological stone age. Gay people are not an abnormality in today’s society, but rather a frequent and often welcome addition. As my friend Esther summoned it up: “I love Jesus, but I drink a little.”

  43. scope wrote:

    I find it ironic that those who don’t like this blog are driving away those of us who do. I’m so tired of every topic becoming a name-calling, who-can-outtrash-the-other free-for-all. If you can’t stick to the topic, and add something substantive, please go away. Find another blog to misuse for your own satisfaction. You sound like preschool children. Enough! Some of us appreciate Doug’s insights and critiques.

  44. Gear Hound wrote:

    Don’t you think there’s a bit of a difference between drinking “a little” and anal sex? Sorry, but I couldn’t let that one go.

  45. Auke wrote:

    This is by far the most pathetic ‘discussion’ i’d ever read. Who did bring in this ‘gay’ element in this thread which was about your husband or wife’s dislike with SGM…
    Unbelievable…i love Doug’s critiques…and i find most post amusing to a certain extent..but this one is revolting….!
    My lordy…hope there are no drinking gays on here…cause they wouldn’t like it here…the again…anal sex when your drunk is prolly in the eyes of some.
    Please give our Gay and Lesbian brothers and sisters a break…and stop the hateful remarks….of all sins i think spreading hate is the worst of all…cause God is love..not hate.


  46. SGfan wrote:

    I can’t help myself.

    #44 Auke,

    Hate in itself is not a sin. It all depends on where the hate is directed. God is incapable of sin and yet He hates sin. As a reflection of that image ( being that we are created in His image) we are to hate sin, but not the sinner. We have to love the sinner. I don’t have any gay and lesbian brothers and sisters in Christ. Homosexuality is sin as is very well documented in the Bible. I have already had that conversation with some on here. I have brothers and sisters in Christ that have had a predisposition to the sin of homosexuality just like you may have had a predisposition to the sin of infidelity ( see our last discussion). When one becomes “born again” they no longer identify themselves by their sin, but they identify themselves through the blood of Christ. Therefor, there is no such thing as a homosexual Christian.

    #41 JRod and #34 Rick,

    First to Rick who said this:

    “And, by the way, it is my sexuality. It is not a ‘lifestyle.’ ”

    Sorry to hurt your feelings, but that is wrong. You were made in God’s image and you are a man. That means you have testosterone and all the other attributes of any other man. The only thing that you are basing your “sexualtiy” on is the attraction you have developed in a fallen state. You are incapable of changing yourself, but when you allow Christ into every aspect of your life and start learning His word, He’ll change you. Then you will learn what your sexuality really is and it will be a reflection of God’s intended will and not the one you have set for yourself while living in sin (a lifestyle).

    Finally JRod,

    “Gay people are not an abnormality in today’s society, but rather a frequent and often welcome addition.”

    No gay people are not an abnormality now or even in the days the Old and New Testament. However, the only welcome of the sin is from sin itself. God loves you, but He hates the sin of homosexuality just like He hates infidelity, blasphemy, lying, etc. God hates sin. I am glad you enjoy SG. I am sad that the message in many cases is so watered down that you are not absorbing the message of deliverance. Exceptance of sin is not an option. Rejection of sin is the only choice when following Christ. As a Christian I will extend my hand to you and anyone else wanting to live a life in Christ (be a Christian) but I will not accept your sin just like I do not expect you to accept the sins of my past. It would be my job to hold you accountable and yours to do the same for me. Now for either of us to that, we have to know where God stands on the issues. For that we turn to His word, the Bible. Guess what, homosexuality and other sexual immoralities are sin according to His word. You can’t change that.

    To Everyone,
    How this whole conversation got to homosexuality, I don’t know. It is hilarious that it did. However, when the subject comes up (just like the subject of any other sin) I am going to rely on scripture for the answers. I am not going to shy away from the discussion in fear of being called hateful or intolerant and I am not going to embrace sins that God disdains in an effort to be tolerant. With that said, I will embrace the sinner and show them the love that Christ showed me and allow them to see the changes (deliverance from past sins) He made in my life as an example. I may not have struggled with the sin of homosexuality, but I do know what it is like to struggle with sin. As I am conformed to the image of Christ, I am learning that I have a greater distaste for sin the further I grow in that image.

  47. Jeff wrote:

    All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 2nd Timothy 3:16

    To so called “gay” christians, you are not using the Word correctly because you refuse to let God’ Word speak to you. You want to believe what your own heart tells you which God has an answer for that,

    The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? Jeremiah 17:9

    You refuse to allow Jesus to change you so therefore you are not saved! You deny the God that created you the power of changing your life.

    Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
    2nd Timothy 3:5

    You are not born gay anymore than a person is born a liar, thief, pedophile. You choose to sin.

  48. Bob wrote:

    SGfan, Very well said. Amen!!!!

  49. Rick wrote:

    Re:#46: I believe I know myself better than you know me. And I am no less a man than are you, gay or not. I accepted Christ when I was nine years old. I love the Bible and have studied it most of my life. When I first realized I was gay, long before I had any actual experience, I prayed earnestly that it be removed from my life. I prayed that prayer for several years. For whatever reason, God chose not to do so.
    I stand by what I said previously: it is my sexuality. I did not choose it; and I did not “put it on” like some kind of style. Neither can I “take it off” whenever I desire. If God can and wants that for me, why has He not done so in the last some 40-odd years?

  50. cynical one wrote:

    Let’s be careful not to confuse homosexual desires with homosexual acts. As in anything that is against God’s commands, it’s not the temptation that is the sin. It’s the ACTING out of that temptation, whether it’s stealing, killing, lying, sexual sins of any sort, or any number of other things the Bible specifically talks about.

    And the Bible is VERY specific.

    Some have written here about rebirth and, as Paul wrote, being a “new creation.” Jesus used the word “repent” numerous times. That’s the key: turning around. Turning FROM self and sin, and turn TO Christ. Those reborn in Christ are told by Him to “go and sin no more”. It’s pretty clear.

  51. SGfan wrote:

    #49 Rick,

    God does not remove temptation from you. You are still faced with temptation throughout your entire life. However, when you are born again, He does change your priorities. The flesh is always predisposed to sin, but a life in Christ is not a life succumbing to the sinful desires of the flesh. I am glad you accepted Christ at 9 years old, but there is more to salvation than the mere acceptance. You have to allow him to transform you into a reflection of Him. You see, when I accepted Christ it didn’t make me any less susceptible to the predisposition to lie or to lust. However, as I grow in Christ, those desires of the flesh become less and less problematic to me. Are they still there? Yes! Do they define who I am? No! You see no one chooses to be a chronic lier, alcoholic, drug addict, or even adulterer. They choose to give in to the temptation and commit the sin. It becomes easier and easier for them to say it is just part of who they are instead of facing it and overcoming it. The same goes for homosexuality. You did not choose to be homosexual, but you did choose to fall to the temptation. The flesh found some sense of comfort in that so you continue deeper until you define yourself by the sin. As a creation in Christ created in His image, we are not to be defined by our predisposition to sin. We are supposed to allow that part of our lives to die, hence the concept of dying to self and living in Christ. My suggestion to you and any other person living the homosexual lifestyle is to let go of the sin. Give it to God. Is the temptation going to go away? No, so don’t expect it to. Instead, expect and ask God to conform your desire and will to His desire and will for your life. You’ll find that picture is going to be totally different than the picture you have of yourself right now. Living a Christian life is not without sacrifices. You do have to give up something. What do you have to give up? Self centerdness, self worship, and selfish will. You can’t pick and choose what areas you allow God to have control of in your life. You can’t decide that you know better than God in certain areas thus self becoming the god of that area of your life. We are called to give Him all (every part) of our lives. Only when you do that will you find the ability to overcome homosexuality. You can’t do it. God has to do it through you. You said:

    “I believe I know myself better than you know me.”

    That may be true, but you don’t know yourself better than God knows you. So quit thinking you know better than He does.

  52. Bob wrote:

    Rick, I understand what you’re saying as far as praying for God to remove it and he didn’t. But because God didn’t take your sexual desire away doesn’t mean that well God must be ok with this. Paul asked for God to remove the thorn in his side his entire life you no avail. So does that make him a thorny man? Also, You are a man and your name is Rick. That’s who you are and who you’re known as. You might want to tweak your idenity as Rick the man as opposed to I am Gay! I don’t identify myself by what I do in the bedroom. Like, Hi I’m Bob and I am Snore!!

  53. wesK wrote:

    I personally know Kelly, Jason and Amber and in my humble opinion, Kelly could see the phone book and I would enjoy it. The group has been to our church on numerous occassions and No More Night is always requested, and a big hit, as is many of their other music. My favorite.

  54. wesK wrote:

    Its just my opinion but when David Phelps was out trying to find his niche, Kelly already had. His style is strong and vibrant, where Kelly’s is bold, smooth and beautiful. JMO.

  55. WA wrote:

    The last few posts here have been exceptional. Well thought out, given with (I believe) a loving spirit, and accurate to quoted Scripture. I commend all of you.

    And friend Rick, in a sense, you’re not any different than any of us are. We’re all born with a sin nature. Yours tempts you toward homosexuality, mine tempts me towards heterosexuality. I cannot agree more - for any of us, regardless of which way our sin nature tugs at us - to succumb to that sin, we fall. Some have a sin nature that predisposes them to alcoholism, gambling, etc. We are judged by God when we allow our old fallen nature to circumvent the new nature that comes with new birth. Today is 43 years since I accepted the Lord Jesus as my Savior. I’ve been just rejoicing all day long in this. In every day since, I’ve failed Him so many times, but never once has He failed me. That day, 43 years ago, my old nature was not replaced by a new nature. I so often wish that it would have been… This Christian life would have been a whole lot easier!! But, that’s one of the many reasons why Heaven will be, well, Heaven. No old, fallen nature there, to play tug-of-war with the glorious new nature. Then, we’ll only be in His image, what He wanted for us here.

    So, to Rick and others who have weighed in, I add my two cents’ worth of agreement. We can love you, and should show you all of the reflected grace and love and kindness of God… but we can’t love your sin, anymore than we should ask you to love ours. All of our sin cost God the best that He had, His only Son. God has a holy hatred of all sin, yours and mine. And, when we allow ourselves to yield to the temptation and then the sin, regardless of what form it takes, it hurts the God of the universe. I’m acutely conscious of that in my own life.All I can say to sum it all up is, thank God for grace!

  56. Auke wrote:

    SGFan your last post was great…i now know we think the same…you said something that really opened my eyes.
    That was the part where you said that the temptation isn’t the sin, but giving in to it…and you’re so right! thanks for that…i really mean that.
    I do think that all the sins mentioned in these threads are wrong…but i have a hard time with folks who ridicule gay people…and think it’s allright to make fun of homosexuality..because they think they can cause they got it all right!
    I think that’s hateful…i hate every sin of mine i hate to be tempted…i also hate that im a stuborn fellow who thinks he can do a lot on his own…
    i’m reminded of a song that i’ve sung since kindergarten…’are you weary are you heavyhearted…tell it to Jesus..tell it to Jesus..well i’m gonna tell Him all about it!
    Thanks SG fan!


  57. Angie M wrote:

    #32 and #43: Thank you! Doug, I realize that you don’t want to get too heavy-handed with moderating comments (I can understand that this might partly be due to time constraints); but I wish something could be done. I used to really look forward to coming here. Now, I almost always regret it when I look at the comments. I mean, how in the world someone could accuse you of trying to make Barbie Franklin look bad when you just reproduced something she herself said with the intent that it be published…the intellectual level of the discourse has fallen somewhat.

  58. confused wrote:

    are yall sayin that Box Car Willie was gay?!?!?

  59. SGfan wrote:

    #56 Auke,

    Thank you. I was afraid we got off to the wrong start a couple of threads back. I am glad we reached a point of agreement. I don’t think that temptation is something that will ever be taken away from us, otherwise we would not grow stronger in our walk. I have not always understood that myself. But then I am reminded that Jesus was tempted as well, yet He did not sin. Temptation itself is not the sin, merely the opportunity to sin presenting itself. I too am very stubborn. That has led me to some very hard lessons in life because I thought I could do on my own what only God could do for me. I will not just ridicule people who struggle with homosexuality just as I will not ridicule someone who struggles with alcoholism. I will tell them that neither of those things are good for them, God despises those sins, but God loves them no matter where they are. He is capable of reaching out to them in the deepest darkest places of their lives and bring them back into His will for their lives. That journey is almost never easy, because we are constantly faced and reminded of those temptations. However, that is a journey we must be willing to take to be a Christian. What good is salvation if it does not save us from something (ourselves)? The enemy does know our weaknesses, but we serve a God who is and will be strong where we are weak if we allow Him to be. I remember that song you mentioned. It is a simple but all too often forgoten message. When tempted, don’t face it alone. We are incapable of facing it on our own. Turn it over to Jesus and allow Him to work in your life what you can’t do yourself. That is a lesson I have learned, and yet I am still learning everyday. I’ll tell you what has helped me the most in this struggle. I have taken the time to get to know some other men who I can trust will not judge but will hold me accountable and in the same way I hold them accountable. When one of us feels temptation knocking at our door, the rest will surround him in prayer that God will be in control and the one facing the temptation will surrender to God’s will (get self out of the way) and allow Him to be in control. We all come together to pray knowing that each has his own temptations and that none of us are without that. But we care enough for each other to call each others attention to areas when we see one struggling. We don’t do it in an accusatory way, but we don’t tip toe around the issue either. I would suggest to any Christian (brand new or serving God 20+ years) to do the same.

  60. JR wrote:

    I have to say David Phelps purely blows Kelly Nelon out of the water on “No More Night.” Also the modern arrangement helps with the louder drums and electric guitar. When they modulate and the tempo quickens slightly-pure bliss.

  61. Brett wrote:

    JR, nah a her female voice is pleasing to the ear. She didn’t have all the advances that David Phelps had with recording the song. Besides I hate David Phelp’s “I wAnt to know what love is”.

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