Open thread

Some traveling is going to require a hiatus this week. Talk amongst yourselves. Some seeds for the discussion:

  • Bill Gaither will host a sing-a-long at NQC. The more things change …
  • I forgot to mention a week or so ago that there’s a new talent and management agency out there operated by none other than the inimitably entrepreneurial Johnathan Bond of Young Harmony. Thus Bond in the ShowPrep: “Over the years, I have personally seen people on the business side take advantage of upcoming artists and about a year ago decided to do something to help change that.” And thus another member of the Chicken Little Small Bidness Association born. Which just goes to show you that purse making from sows’ ears will always be a growth industry in sg.
  • So has anyone heard anything to confirm or correct this commenter’s claim that Word has all but shuttered Canaan and/but the label is running more or less on fumes?
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  1. Talley Trio Hits #1 In June « Burke’s Brainwork on 16 Apr 2009 at 3:10 pm

    […] 16, 2009 by burkesbrainwork According to this comment on AVFL, the Talley Trio’s “Life Goes On” will be #1 in June.  This is the title […]


  1. DMP wrote:

    Bill hosting a sing-a-long basically consists of him having everyone else sing while he feeds everyone the next lyric in a two beat pause. How does he do that???!!!

  2. SgDoc wrote:

    Maybe Jonathon can get you on a billboard! I seriously believe Southern Gospel has hit rock bottom. It is the laughing stock of the music industry. I know of artists being asked to sign contracts from promoters asking for 15% of anything you book in their area, just because a promoter believes all the million people in their 200 mile radius would not know you if it weren’t for them. “You’ve been descuvered!!!” Oh, and do not book anything within their area, or you owe them! Southern Gospel is not anywhere close to being what the industry believes it to be.

    How ridiculous it is to think you are so well known and have such a great following that you have to give someone exclusive rights to you, your music or your bookings. Even top groups in Southern Gospel are not so big that they cannot perform one night, travel 200 miles away and perform for a completely different crowd.

    “Too big for your britches” comes to mind. I am saddened by the way the artists act, the booking agents act and the record executives act. It is no wonder to me that attendance is down, sales are down and even this site has less of an attraction. “Childish”, “High school” or “Pre-School” describes it best!

    Someone, Anyone, please show some maturity and some depth before the music we have known and loved comes crashing down to heaping pile of …. I’m afraid it’s too late ;(

  3. David Bruce Murray wrote:

    Why don’t they just call it NQC Homecoming and be done with it?

  4. Jim2 wrote:

    Not so fast, SgDoc! If you take a look at the showcases at next weeks GMA schedule, there are more big name Southern Gospel artists performing than Contemporary. I know, crazy talk - but it’s true!

  5. SgDoc wrote:

    Jim2, I sure hope and pray you are right, But, just because these artists have a place to display their..whatever it is they call it, Past experience has shown SG only to be discredited as a legitimate player in the game of Gospel Music.

    No substance, running around like banchies, hollering and screaming. Acting “better than you”.

    A big name doesn’t a quality artist make.

  6. Wade wrote:

    DMP… yes I have actually hit rewind a few times to hear how Bill can feed the lyrics at the last possible second in some what of a rhythm. I have heard others try to do it and sound like a tenor singer trying to get all the words at the end of a verse of IN MY ROBE OF WHITE… Why did Brian Free not have a hard time with it when they did it in the 80’s and now he even has a hard time getting all the lyrics in time??

    OK here is a link to a story that explains why Dr. DH does not allow us to post WHY GUY LEFT???

    This lady will never when but gonna wear their ass out for a while.

  7. Wade wrote:

    I also rushed home tonight to see who won the SGN Music Awards and if they mentioned us here at the site… I was SOO disappointed… but I need to go back and see what the difference is between these awards and the ones in July the Un thank site is promoting??/ Lots of awards and atleast tonight they made an award that GCQ could win… FAN FAVORITE!! So see they aren’t doing so badly, no matter what y’all & MD say about them!!

  8. rick wrote:

    hey “doc”
    you need to talk to a promoter friend who booked one of the most popular new groups for a ticketed event - little did he know they were doing a free concert with an offering an hour away the previous night. Which one would you attend? He lost his shirt.

    It is high time SG got with the program. You would never see an act in any other genre allow that to happen.

    Perhaps you should know what you are talking about before you spew that kind of hateful talk.

  9. Arlie Petree wrote:

    I was just thinking of the fact that the name of Jesus has been extended to the world as mush or more thriugh singing as any other means as far as the medium is concerned. Thank God for one and all who are committed to this work. Preachers and singers have always been special to me. I love to see them holding up and continuing on to their reward in spite of all the adversities they face.

  10. Andy wrote:

    #6 Wade… I thought there was no juicy gossip on Penrod. I wish it would just come out… I am dying to know! email me!!!

    It has hit rock bottom for sure!

  11. MP wrote:

    Wade, Please tell me that you aren’t trying to accuse Guy Penrod of that same type of behavior. I don’t know what his real reason may have been for leaving, but I sincerely hope that you aren’t trying to plant a seed that it may have been for the same charges that were filed in that case.

  12. Bryce wrote:

    Arlie Petree wrote:

    …the name of Jesus has been extended to the world as mush or more thriugh singing…

    Very true, very true.

  13. SgDoc wrote:

    OH Pluuueeezz Rick, I will promise you, your friend did not lose his shirt because of booking this group after their concert 1 hour away. You and him are naive to think that and are looking for excuses. And I DO know what I am talking about. I am not SgDoc for nothing.

    This industry is so high on itself that it cannot see the end coming. Keep looking for excuses and getting nothing accomplished. Everyone wants to blame the other guy. I’m sure your friend had nothing to do with it and is completely innocent.

    Keep trying place the blame. Good one!

  14. SgDoc wrote:

    Oh and Rick, I just discovered why he lost his shirt and I will offer this for free

    “booked one of the most popular new groups”

    Maybe they appeared popular to your friend but, this group had not established a following yet. And had not proved themselves as a group people in your friend’s market would spend money to come and see.

    Yet your friend agreed to pay this group their flat. ask any Country music concert promoter and they’ll tell you to do your research.

    As for which concert I’d go to? By the time I paid for my gas to drive two hours and put an offering in the plate, I could have bought a ticket for the event in my town.


  15. DMP wrote:

    I wouldn’t call it “juicy,” but there is a story.

  16. Bones wrote:

    One person in gospel music always said she was going to sue someone for talking. She won’t be doing so anymore but you need to be careful.

  17. Lisa wrote:

    ….and this lawsuit has WHAT to do with Guy Penrod?

  18. Jim2 wrote:

    absolutely nothing. Just somebody trying to stir the pot.

  19. RealOne wrote:

    So did win??
    or was it someone else . . .
    or did they just not announce a winner in the category at all unless it was them??

  20. Wade wrote:

    The link shows some one who is getting sued by a public person for things that might even be true but the artist is just wanting the author to have to spend alot of money defending himself… even the article says she won’t win… just deeper pockets probably going to bankrupt some one who broke a story VERY similar to this.

    It is a GREAT illustration why stories like this do not break until somebody with very deep pockets like a publication would have and the E&O carriers defend in a very AGGRESSIVE MATTER!!!

    Trying to get the gossip ho’s to understand how this works!!!

  21. Wade wrote:


  22. Tommy wrote:

    So Jonathan Bond is going to help artists who have been taken advantage of. Great. Now who’s going to help the fans who are being victimized by “Labels” who continue to put out assembly line,sub par Gospel music. Integrity? Where’s the integrity in poor quality music. Their top package includes THREE days of vocal production for ten songs. I can see where that would foster an environment for quality music. Here is another example of why SG is struggling. Why is mediocrity so exceptible in SG?

  23. Andrew S. wrote:

    Life Goes On-Talley Trio—- #1 June 2009. This makes their 10th #1 song. Hope they get a plaque like the McKameys did for their 10th #1. It’s also the Talleys’ third consecutive #1 song. Definitely a great song by Ovation Award Professional Songwriter, Marty Funderburk and newer songwriter Gina Boe. =)

  24. Butch wrote:

    What is up with the classic Imperials? Robby Hiney? Wow! after watch him with the Old Time Gospel Hour Quartet and then rocking the house on an Imperials clip??? I thought I was watch 3 days grace for a second. Must be going through mid life.

  25. rick wrote:

    you are no doc. quack is more fitting for your glimmering ignorance of reality.

    I love the self proclaimed know it alls who use this forum to parade their wares.

    But, the Good News is, Jesus died and rose again for ALL.

  26. wanderer wrote:

    Everyone complains about the overuse of tracks…including me. Gold City will now do a concert with tracks or with a band provided the promoter is willing to pay extra. Do you think they are taking the right approach to tackling this problem or will the band die because no one is willing to pay extra? Will they be able to keep band members if they’re only part-time or casual or will they have so many changes it won’t be worth it for them?

  27. jbb wrote:

    Everyone doesn’t complain about tracks…I love to use them.I go to hear the singers, and the message in song, not the band.

  28. Andy wrote:

    #15 DMP… How do some people know the Guy Penrod story, and others dont? Is whatever happened alleged, or for sure true? If it is true, there is no way someone can sue for telling the story. Can someone help with this question? Are we SURE there is a Penrod story?

  29. cynical one wrote:

    rick - I can’t speak to sgdoc’s pedigree, but I can tell you he probably isn’t too far off in his assessment that your promoter friend probably got caught up in the excitement and hype of this new up-and-coming artist. Had he been astute, he’d have negotiated something less than their flat, and made sure there was some clause about free concerts within a certain radius of his ticketed event.

    Negotiations like this happen all the time in sg. And the artists and agents know this. That’s why the flats are so high. It’s like buying a car.

  30. Rob wrote:

    # 26 - The band will die because no one is willing to pay extra for a band. Ask yourself the question? Will the band increase ticket sales enough to pay for them to attend? I think the answer is NO.

  31. Irishlad wrote:

    My 82 yr old mum heard “beween jc and jw” for the 1st tonight. Good Baptist that she is reckons that BG has a lot to answer for. ‘Bleedin’ disgrace’ i swear i heard her mutter.

  32. SgDoc wrote:

    #25 Rick - Wow, the name calling fits ya! The substance of the comments to you were on the money…

    #1 “looking for excuses”
    #2 “blame the other guy”
    #3 “one of the most popular new groups”
    (according to their own press)
    #4 “this group had not established a following”
    #5 “do your research”
    #6 Simple economics would have determined which concert I would have chosen. If I knew about the other concert at all.

    #29 cynical one - There are some who believe this is a no-brainer and things like that need no attention. There was obviously no attention paid to these details which needed pre-planing. Then to blame the artist who is probably hundreds if not thousands of miles from home, is simply selfish.

  33. SgDoc wrote:

    Oh, and Rick, I have no wares to parade. Far as your friend goes, there are ways to make sure you do not “loose your shirt”, which I too have done attempting to promote concerts. I do speak from experience. Experience has taught me a few things I wish I had know before I jumped.

    Research will tell you if folks in your area will pay for tickets to see any particular group. A “New” group has no leverage to ask for a substantial flat. And Rick, I do not claim to “know it all”, but I do know you could offer the group a percentage instead. That would insure that if they cannot draw flies, they don’t make money, (which is another subject altogether) and the promoter has protected himself from, “loosing his shirt”.

    I am not calling you names or saying your friend is less than a genius I’m only saying, placing blame is not going to keep it from happening again and again and again. I want your friend as well as “new” groups in Sg to succeed, but if anyone “looses their shirt” be it the promoter or the artist, NO ONE wins.

  34. DRL wrote:

    Sgdoc, I think you’re right about hitting rock bottom, but your reasons are way off the mark. Groups doing free / offering concerts just a few miles away from a ticketed event a few nights off is the standard, not the exception. It’s almost standard procedure around here where there aren’t a lot of concerts going on. One of the big names asked for a flat of 5 figures. Finally settled on 1/2 that, and had the “no concerts within 200 miles” clause included. Then 3 weeks before the gig, they phone up and ask us if we can get them “something for the Sunday.” (Yes, in spite of the clause in the contract!)

    Things have hit rock bottom for one simple reason. Look at the message boards and the blogs … lots of ppl want to talk about rumors why somebody left a group, or buses, or pa systems, or recording … but nobody ever talks about the music! It’s the only style of music where nobody wants to talk about the music and what makes the style of music special and unique. Heck, we don’t even want musicians! The entire genre is defined by a bunch of studio musicians who have no vested interest in creating something special or defining the style of music. Go back 20, 30, 40 even 50 years. Groups were distinctive. There was something special and defined by each group. You could tell the Blackwoods from the Statesmen, the Cathedrals from the Kingsmen, Gold City from the Singing Americans. Very few can do that anymore. There are approximately 38,243 mixed trios and quartets that are indistinguishable from one another, and another 28,592 soloists that have the same problem. Nobody cares about the music, just get up on stage with my microphone and watch me trot my Silver Ego across the stage … Rock bottom indeed!

  35. dmp wrote:

    If I told you where I got the story, there is not a single person on here who would not recognize the name, so I’m guessing it is factual. The person is very close to the situation. I guess some people know it because they have different friends and different connections. As best I know, it is not alleged. But, and I need to be careful how I word this, I once heard it described as an “unfortunate situation,” and I think that is a very good description. I think Guy will come out of this fine, but it was something that needed to be taken care of out of the spotlight. In my opinion, we are not talking about a great moral failure or something terrible he did. I know I’m being vague, but I’m trying to dance around it a bit. In reality, the story isn’t worth digging for. If you knew it, you’d say “he left for that?!” But again, that’s assuming there is not more to it than I know…

  36. Derek wrote:

    RE: GOld City band… probably depends on how much “extra” it takes to get the band!

    #14: I agree! If they’re too cheap to buy a ticket they’re probably too cheap to drive an hour!

  37. wanderer wrote:

    I would pay extra to hear a live band. To me the atmosphere is so different with a band. Tracks no matter how well produced make a perfomance much more dull. Watch how the Oaks interact with their band. Then watch a group try to interact with tracks or get excited about a big finish or hot guitar solo. Kind of hard to do when the person playing the guitar isn’t there.

  38. Sensible wrote:

    GC hired Daniel Addison full-time. When the promoter does not want a band, Daniel runs the sound. When the promoter wants a band, Daniel plays lead guitar (maybe more). GC simply hires a bass player and a drummer. The piano player and guitar player is already there.

    It makes sense because it would be easy to find a bass player and drummer. If nothing else they can always hire a couple of studio musicians to fill the spots.

    Daniel Addison is a great guy and plays in studio sessions as well. He can play lead guitar, harmonica, mandolin, and some fiddle. He used to be on the road with Jeff & Sherri Easter.

  39. wackythinker wrote:

    I’m not sure folks would pay more for a live band. It may depend on how much more, and how it’s promoted.

    If you’re talking a venue that’s only going to draw 200-300 people, you’d obviously have to increase the ticket price by more than you would if you were expecting 2,000-3,000 people.

    And how is the promoter going to distinguish to the potential ticket buyers that this is different from the last time you saw this same group? Also, what if the group can’t get 2 or 3 dates the same weekend that are willing to pay the up-charge?

    A lot of concerns with this part-time proposition.

  40. Andy wrote:


    I am glad it is no big deal. Gaither, in all his glory, seems pretty tolerable. Guy is a good man, with an incredible talent. I did hear the ME interivew, and it seems he called it “Unfortunate” and almost slipped, then got back on track thanks to Emily. I dont think Guy will make it as a soloist. Another question, is there a story to Marsh leaving, or does it have something to do with Guy?

  41. Jake wrote:

    When is everyone going to give this Guy Penrod thing a rest? I’m getting sick and tired of people coming onto this site (and not only this particular thread) claiming that they have some inside information on what “really” happened, but then refusing to say what it is. If it is something that should be shared, then say it. If it isn’t, then SHUT UP.

    Enough Already!

  42. Doug Sword wrote:

    i recently saw Signature Sound in concert with a live band and it made a tremendous difference in their performance. The most frequent complaint about the EHSS sound is that it is over stacked and tracked. They did a signifigant portion of this concert was done unplugged. It showed how talented these guys without the technical enhancements. Having Wayne Haun on piano and Greg Richey on drums as well David (their sound guy) playing a really good bass) gave them flexibility on stage. They did a really great two mic set.

    I think this live band setup is going to be their standard on all their stand alone concerts. They draw well enough to make the cost of a live band a moot point.

  43. rick wrote:

    Okay, I submit. SGDoc really does know everything, and he is the world’s greatest promoter. Anyone who can put together a list like he can has got to be genius. He knows all the particulars without even knowing who he is talking about! He is an amazing Saint of God! Please accept my apologies for giving opinions, and doubting him. And I pray the president calls on him to help with the country’s problems. I am sure he has all those answers too. Oh, to be like him!

  44. Andy wrote:

    The Guy Penrid “thing” is important to some of us. I have been a fan of the GVB for a long time, and when someone leaves, we want to know why. I appreciate this website and how it helps us be “in the know” as much as possible. Relax Jake!

  45. j-mo wrote:

    Anyone have a link to the ME interview Andy is speaking of?

  46. american wrote:

    Jake, I agree with you!

  47. burt wrote:

    Speaking of the Vocal Band, they do sound pretty amazing. I’ll go ahead and argue with Doug on this one too….Michael English is really getting his chops back. Check out youtube sometimes.

  48. dmp wrote:

    I know nothing about the Marsh situation. All I know is that I really liked him.

    Jake, if I did tell everything, then I would just be called a gossip. I think it is okay to say, yes there is a situation beyond wanting to go solo, no I can’t say what it is. I’d love to hear that English interview if anyone finds it…

  49. Lisa wrote:

    However, Michael does not call it unfortunate in this one, he DOES however, call it a “hard situation”.

  50. Gary Cooper wrote:

    I received my Gaither/Oaks tribute dvd today, and I must say, as a long-time Oaks fan, this may be my favorite video ole Bill has ever put out. Lots of great music, great interviews, and some great old flashback stuff. Highly recommend it to any Oaks fan, and those who really don’t know a lot of their history.

  51. Joshua Cottrell wrote:

    Here is the link:

  52. KDM wrote:

    I’m with Jake on this one. If you have info but you’re not allowed to share it, then just keep it to yourself. Quit stringing folks along with the “I know something but I ain’t tellin’” junk.

    Yes, folks who follow the GVB and Guy want to know the “real story”, if there really is one. But here’s a thought. Maybe it’s just none of our business. Guy’s personal life is his business, and if there’s something in there that shouldn’t be, that’s between him and God. He doesn’t owe an explanation to anyone else. Let it go, people!

  53. dmp wrote:

    You know KDM, maybe you’re just holier than I am, but I like to know the truth about things. The truth is, it was not a drive for a solo career that sent him packing. Why on earth would you not want to know that when it is the truth? No one is stringing you along, I’m never going to say anything, but eventually, someone will. I have already said in a previous post that I don’t think the situation was that big of a deal and that it was just something he needed to handle out of the spotlight (again, assuming I have all the facts, which I am doubtful of…).

  54. dmp wrote:

    Great interview Lisa! Thanks.

    Michael English: Speaking of Bill Gaither and Guy’s leaving “I think it broke his heart to make the decisions he made…”

  55. dmp wrote:

    Sorry, that wasn’t real clear. It broke Bill’s heart.

  56. Yeah... wrote:

    DMP - And if I named the two people who have told me that there’s no story at all to Penrod’s leaving, everyone here would also recognize both names in an instant. So, all I can say is that someone’s lying. What irks me is that a number on here have written things with just enough innuendo to make it appear that the story is one similar to Michael English’s, and others. Yet those same commenters just dance around whatever the facts are, play their little mind and word games, and delight in being the ones who “know all”. (And I am not putting you in that category.)
    It might be character assassination, and if so, shame on them. I agree that one day, this will likely all come to light; but until the real facts are known, this has occupied enough space on too many threads already.

  57. gc wrote:

    Dan Hubbard, a longtime singer and Gospel Music friend, passed away yesterday at his home in Ohio. He was 71 years old ..

  58. KDM wrote:

    DMP…I’m not ‘holier’ than anybody. But just because something is ‘the truth’ doesn’t make it my business to know about it. Your insinuations that there is some kind of story that the public doesn’t know is an invasion of Guy’s privacy. There are lots of things about all of us that are true that we would rather the world didn’t know about, and they aren’t all necessarily bad. They’re just private.

    You’re acting like some kind of crazed SG paparazzo, determined to air ‘the truth’ because ‘the public has a right to know’. Guess what? We DON’T. If Guy doesn’t want to talk about it, it’s a closed subject. If you respect Guy at all you’ll quit painting your veiled accusations of scandal all over him and leave the poor man alone.

  59. dmp wrote:

    Well Yeah, someone is lying, but I’d say the facts are on my side. Name a Gaither artist who set out on a solo career without having already recorded a solo album. Name one who did it without a website and concert dates already booked. What was it that broke Bill Gaither’s heart to do? Where on earth is Guy and why isn’t Gaither pushing him anymore (Gaither went on selling Phelps and Lowry records). And most important, who on earth would want to assassinate his character? The only reason there is a story here, is that the IS a story here. It’s weird. It screams that something is wrong in Gaither world.

  60. BB wrote:

    Ok, I’m an idiot. I’ve missed the reason or story why Jonathan Pierce isn’t on the videos. Can anyone help me out with that?

  61. matt wrote:

    Does anybody know if Gaither has produced a tribute to Glen Payne? There has been one for George Younce. I assumed a Payne version would also be coming.

  62. Rick wrote:

    dmp- I don’t think it is a matter of being holier than anyone else. I think it is a matter of common decency and of minding one’s own business. (A quaint notion these days I admit.)
    You may wish “to know the truth about things.” That doesn’t mean you always have the right or necessity to know in every case.

  63. Andy wrote:

    Rick… I am going to have to stick up for my friend DMP. We all read this blog for the “dirt” on SGM. If you are looking for news, there are other sites… This blog is known for its “controversy”. We saw a certain tenor almost in tears on his own blog when he read comments about himself on here. So i dont think you can honestly say to mind our own business. When someone is in the public eye, it sort of puts you in a glass house. Hollywood and Entertainment Tonight and all the tabloids prove that point. We want to know. To be honest, Guy will never make it out there alone. He is talented, but a lot of his fan base is the “blue hairs” that watch the Gaither videos. I dont see him having that in country music, or even as a SG soloist. Unless he sings all the “Gaither” songs that made him faous to begin with. I bet that is what he will try. “knowing You’ll Be There” and “Jesus and John Wayne” will probably be his first 2 album titles.

  64. Andy wrote:

    I bet a million bucks most of us have typed Kirk Talley or Jerry Thompson or Tim Surrett into the search engine at least once!

  65. Aaron Swain wrote:

    #61: Not that I’m aware of. He is, however, releasing a “Best Of The Crabb Family” video in June.

  66. rick wrote:

    Just so you will all know, there are two Rick’s on this thread. I have only been commenting on the plight of the promoter, and singing the praises of SGDoc. The other Rick is the one entering the Gaither / Penrod / scandal stupidity.

  67. dmp wrote:

    Well put Andy. You know, I always hear people say we should mind our own business when it comes to Guy, but on Averyfineline, it only seems to apply to guy. In fact, I have to wonder why anyone who truly believes that the personal lives of celebrities are off limits would even frequent this site. There is no doubt that singers and entertainers willingly and knowingly put themselves into the spotlight when they enter into the business. They know that includes their personal lives and so do we. The irony of all of this is that it is Guy’s personal life that made him such a star. We love Guy’s voice, but we also were attracted to the huge family (heck, Gaither recorded segments in his house and on the ranch) and to his personal faith.

    And to KDM. For the love of God, read my words. All I have said is that there is more to the story. Also, I have repeatedly said that I don’t think the story is very interesting or warranted leaving the group. And given that I know the truth and could air it, your assumption that I am dying to know is kind of silly at best. I have made no accusation and have not even hinted at his reason for departing. I simply think his devoted fans over the years deserve to know there was more to it, and that the “more” is not necessarily a bad thing. Perhaps you like living in the dark. I don’t.

  68. Andy wrote:

    I agree DMP. We are all attracted to Guy’s “real-ness”. If it is not a big deal, as Kirk Talley and Michael English, then great! I mean, lets look at the unsaid “groupies” that travel around with some of the best quartets in SGM. Some of the guys who have left have commented on them, i personally know one of them, and this is a well known group. Do you think the sabbatical was really that, or to give Bill time to figure something else out?

    DMP, any way to get your email address? Not looking to ask a bunch of questions, just would like to talk if possible.

  69. C.W.G. wrote:

    Is there nothing else that you all can do besides tring to find out the gossip about fellow travellers and how low they sink in their personal lives. There just has to be a better way of living with more purpose and goals than what I am reading here.

  70. Brett wrote:

    There is video the Nelons did in the 1980’s the interesting thing is that on the main chorus it is just Karen Peck & Jerry Thompson singing. Pretty cool though. I think Nelons got an award for it (Famine).

  71. dmp wrote:

    You failed reading comprehension in school, didn’t you? We haven’t said anything bad about Guy. Nothing. Haven’t even made an innuendo. Amazing. I sometimes wonder if the people on their soapboxes aren’t the ones thinking bad things about people. It’s Ted Haggard syndrome.
    The Jonathon Pierce story is yet another Gaither mystery. Officially, it was a scheduling conflict. Now, here we go again, I don’t think anyone (except for CWG, who always thinks the best of people…) really believes that. With former GVB singers, it is often possible to tell just what kind of grounds they left on by their future appearances (or lack of…) in Homecoming videos made after their departure. I don’t think Terry Franklin or Pierce ever appeared again, right? I’d say there is an untold story on both of them, though the Gaither empire seems to be very good at keeping secrets. Seems to be too big of a coincidence that they never appeared again, and failed to attend the reunion taping. I have always wondered what the real story is there…

  72. Sensible wrote:

    #70 - Brett: I went to the link by clicking on your name. That video is the soundtrack only. Kelly Nelon (Thompson) is singing the lead throughout the video. She is the one wrapped up like an eskimo out in the snow. Since it is just a soundtrack, that’s why you only hear Jerry and Karen.

    I remember the video back in the day when concept videos were huge. The young man that looks so much like Rex when he was young was Todd - Rex’s son.

  73. Andy wrote:

    DMP… would your source on the Penrod story know about Pierce and Franklin? Just a thought! Also, Did you guys hear Phelps pop that high note on It is Finished?

  74. Lisa wrote:

    Well, it won’t solve any mysteries as to his status with the GVB, but here’s an interesting look at what he’s been doing:

  75. Irishlad wrote:

    I remember watching Bill on dvd interviewing Guy and Wes(when he’d just joined). Bill was gushing how great these guys were,handling all sorts off stuff,even the ‘hard’ stuff. I always wondered what exactly he was referring to.

  76. SgDoc wrote:

    Hey Rick!

    It is obvious to me why you and your friend haven’t a clue, Keep up the great work!

    SgDoc KNOWS ALL!

  77. rowboat wrote:

    I have looked on various websites and I have seen other SGM fans ask whatever happened to Parker Jonathan. “Whatever” must have been a doozy because all of the people who claim to be in the know just remain very silent when his name is mentioned. He was a really excellent singer during his tenure with the Kingsmen.

  78. MusicalFreak wrote:

    I believe Jonathan Pierce (Hildreth)’s wife, Denise, writes women’s novels. If she is the same Denise Hildreth, I don’t believe they are married any longer.

  79. Bones wrote:

    How did Bill treat his brother Danny?

  80. Kyle wrote:

    Jonathan and Denise did divorce, I think about a year or so ago. The last I heard on Jonathan, he was working in Joseph and the Amazing Technicolor Dreamcoat, but even that was probably two years ago. Haven’t heard a thing since then.

    I heard somewhere that Terry Franklin “really wanted to be there” (at the reunion), but simply could not pull off the schedule. Whether that’s really the case, I’ll let the National Enquirer folk here decide. I know that Mark stated in one of his YouTube clips last year that he hadn’t heard from Terry in a long time.

  81. Aaron Swain wrote:

    #80: I know Terry has a busy schedule traveling around singing with his wife, so that was most likely the case.

  82. MP wrote:

    Bones are we back to suggesting Guy is sick?

  83. Lisa wrote:

    @ #79 Depends on who you ask, I suppose.

    Once Danny no longer chose to sing solo, because of illness and he thought he was no longer a soloist he sang in the chorus as long as he wanted to and was able to.

    For the record, he also became the bus driver, yes. It kept him employed and in benefits that he may not have had otherwise.

    I do not think that’s a bad thing?

  84. rick wrote:

    SGDoc - noun - Pitiful, pathetic, prejudiced, provincial, proponent of peeved perception, pervader of perverted promotional philosophy.

  85. cynical one wrote:

    #79 — My understanding about Danny was that it had nothing to do with Bill, but that Gloria felt there was an impropriaty(sp?) with Danny and his then-girl-friend (later his wife). Something about the trio’s bus.

    I also understand Bill & Danny remained close through all that.

    And I’m not sure Danny’s solo career ending had anything to do with health issues. There were health issues later, but I think his solo career just went nowhere. We had him at our church once, and he did a great job. But some people thought he sang too much secular material that he was trying to turn into Christian songs, and it just didn’t work. I think people wanted (and expected) to hear Bill-&-Gloria songs sung by Danny.

  86. Not a Grammarian wrote:

    #85 rick,

  87. rick wrote:

    Sorry - not a Grammarian,
    Sometimes my e’s and u’s don’t come out so purty on my compeutur.

    Should have stopped at pitiful.

  88. Brett wrote:

    Wow that was his son in the video. I like the music to Famine it definetly isn’t SG in the tru sense of the word.

  89. SgDoc wrote:

    Hard to type and read at the same time, Rick, should have “cut & paste”, oh wait, that would mean someone knew more than you……..

    oh sorry.

    The facts remain. Your friend, (yet it might just be you, come to think of it), couldn’t promote a concert successful enough to pay a group what you promised. Then place the blame on a group for trying to not have to call it quits because of incompetent so-called “promoters” like you, oh sorry…your “friend”!

    Blame is squarely placed on your “friends” shoulders. The more I think about it, the more I understand truly what happened…

    You or your “friend” have NO compassion or understanding for that artist who was simply trying not to be stranded hundreds of miles away from home by a “good for nothing” promoter who says he can do one thing and when it comes down to the line, he was just blowing! Yet, he can get in his car and drive 5 miles to the house.

    It happens every day of the year. Boy, I don’t know nothing! Do I, Rick? You and your friend can sit back now and BASH BASH BASH!

    Till you leave your home every week for 4 to 5 days, hoping, praying someone like you or your “friend” doesn’t screw you out of what was promised, you’ve got nothing to say.

    If it was so wrong, get it in writing next time… wait, that would mean they may have made a decision not to come to your friends concert, which they would have been better off.

    What do I know?

    Shame on you, Rick, and your “friend”!

  90. rick wrote:

    Bash, Bash, Bash? Me, me, me?

    I have never promoted a concert, and never will. It is so funny how ole Doc gets his shorts up around his neck whenever I post here.

    I may never stop. He is just a funny little man!

    Stay tuned! Let’s see what he says next!

  91. Jim2 wrote:

    hey, hey, ity looks like Jason Crabb’s long awaited solo album (on Gaither’s label) will release the same day the “Best of Crabb Family” Gaither DVD - June 30th
    From the EMI website “This year marks the release of his self-titled, national solo debut, produced by Tommy Sims, Norro Wilson and Gordon Mote, three of the music industry’s most acclaimed producers. Featuring a cameo appearance by one of Jason’s heroes, Vince Gill, the recording finds Jason doing exactly what he loves with a soulful, heartfelt approach that his fans love to hear. “

  92. Jim2 wrote:

    Here’s a link to the promo for that video
    Gaither Best of Crabb Family

  93. Kyle wrote:

    Now if only Spring Hill would update their website. Doesn’t look like it’s been touched in over a year….

  94. Arlie Petree wrote:

    Speaking 0f Jason Crabb, he, without a doubt has a great voice. A lot is said of some black people,s ability to belt out an outstanding song. I totally agree. However, don,t overlook Jason. Wow! And, pay close attention to the Tally girl! I could mantion others! They are tremendous!

  95. Deb Pankey wrote:

    Sometimes when I read these SG blog sites I wonder why some of the people who post comments listen to SG. One would assume that SG listeners are attempting to follow Christ and pattern their lives after the Word of God.

    All this digging for gossip and spreading dirty little tidbits about the net sure doesn’t seem like Christ-like behavior to me. I’m sure we all a curious. We are human beings, but IF IT WERE YOU would you want people to leave it alone and pray? I would. I think Mr. Penrod and Mr. Gaither deserve that respect. Do unto others, ya know.

  96. Harry Peters wrote:

    Irish Lad (75), Old Harry Peters thinks that you are a naughty lad. Who knows what Bill meant? Those are some of the best kept secrets in SGM. However, old Harry Peters says if Phil Cross can be on the cover of SN, anyone can.

  97. dmp wrote:

    Once again, who is doing these things? We have said nothing bad about Guy or Bill. What on earth are you talking about?

  98. Deb Pankey wrote:

    dmp, the constant speculation about there being “more to the story” is stirring the pot. IMO this type of behavior is what the Bible refers to as spreading strife. It keeps folks talking and we all know how often horrible, untrue rumors get started from one person speculating to another.

    Suppose there IS more to the story. Why do we really need to know? Because we are curious? Because we don’t want to support his music if he has committed a horrible act? Because we just want to talk about it?

    I can’t think on one good, Biblically based reason for the public/fans to know anything more than we have been told.

    If there is “a story,” the only folks who NEED to know are those who know Guy personally who will love, council and pray for him and his family. Guy knows who those people are and it should be HIS CHOICE who knows what and when.

    I haven’t listened to the GVB enough to really call myself a fan of theirs. But all this flap over the personel changes has taken on a life of it’s own on the net. It’s lke the Christian version of TMZ or US magazine. It’s anything but Christian, IMO.

    If you care about the man, leave it alone and pray for him.

  99. Deb Pankey wrote:

    dmp, here is an example of the type of speculation I refer to from one of your own posts. This stuff is long past. Why give it any thought? I’m not trying to be nasty, just making my point.

    dmp wrote:

    You failed reading comprehension in school, didn’t you? We haven’t said anything bad about Guy. Nothing. Haven’t even made an innuendo. Amazing. I sometimes wonder if the people on their soapboxes aren’t the ones thinking bad things about people. It’s Ted Haggard syndrome.
    The Jonathon Pierce story is yet another Gaither mystery. Officially, it was a scheduling conflict. Now, here we go again, I don’t think anyone (except for CWG, who always thinks the best of people…) really believes that. With former GVB singers, it is often possible to tell just what kind of grounds they left on by their future appearances (or lack of…) in Homecoming videos made after their departure. I don’t think Terry Franklin or Pierce ever appeared again, right? I’d say there is an untold story on both of them, though the Gaither empire seems to be very good at keeping secrets. Seems to be too big of a coincidence that they never appeared again, and failed to attend the reunion taping. I have always wondered what the real story is there…

    Posted 21 Apr 2009 at 8:52 am ¶

  100. dmp wrote:

    Well Deb, it also says to know the truth, and it will set you free. God gave us brains and the ability to reason, and I see nowhere in the scriptures that would suggest that we should forgo that ability for the sake of being sensitive to ones career. We have the God given ability to look at a situation and identify facts that just don’t line up, an ability no other creature on earth was given. I’m not stirring the pot, I’m simply stating that things don’t line up. The Christian music industry is no different than the mainstream in that things don’t always happen for the reasons stated. I think you comparison with TMZ is a bit far stretched in that no one is chasing Guy down the street asking for a comment. I think we are respecting his privacy while remaining curious as to why the facts do not seem to line up with the statement we have been given. You can say it is no biblical and is not something you would speculate on, but I must wonder what you were doing on this site if you are above such speculation. This site exists for “Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music and culture,” which sounds to me to be a far cry from what you think is appropriate. It would be a disgrace to the gifts God has given us to fall in line like happy idiots and believe everything we are told. John tells us to be discerning between “the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.” That does not call us, or me, to be judgmental or to question ones salvation. No where have I said anything demeaning or even inappropriate about Guy, I have simply stated that the facts do not line up. For the record, I love the guy (pun intended), but that doesn’t mean I must shut down my brain when it comes to interpreting the facts. You might just be a better person than me for not wondering, but I’m willing to live with it.

  101. Deb Pankey wrote:

    dmp, the scriptures you reference are talking about the truth of salvation through Jesus Christ and the Spirit of truth is the Holy Spirit. Knowing “the truth of any human being’s personal life/career is not going to set anyone free.

    Wondering is one thing, but speculating about it to others is quite different. “Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music and culture” should not include insinuating artists are lying to the fans.

    Bottom line there is not one good reason for the general public to know any more than we have already been told.

    Most of what I read on this site does not approach the level of the posts in this thread. I have made my point and that is all I intend to say. You are, of course, free to take it or leave it.

  102. dmp wrote:

    Well then, please point to one time I have speculated as to a reason for him leaving. I have kept my comments extremely general. And, I don’t need to speculate, I know. All we have stated is that there is obviously more to the story. You’re more than welcome to think that is wrong of me, but I’ll take my chances.

  103. DMP wrote:

    Ya know Deb, maybe this is not quite as evil as you think. I’m not sure what line of work you are in, but I can tell you that in mine, I see this type of thing very frequently. I’m guessing that makes me speculate more. I’m not saying that artists are lying to fans, I’m saying I can spot one of these cookie cutter statements a mile away. In my work, I have seen game-ending, massive failures called a “glitch that needs to be worked out.” I have seen disasters called “incidents” and people fired, but released in a statement that the individual is” assessing options.” I’ve seen several ministers forced out of their churches, only to claim God was calling them elsewhere. These are generic statements meant to glaze over what really happened and it is done in most every business, the Christian music business included. We would be naïve to take one of these press releases at face value, because it simply is not the way things are done in any line of work. There is the story, and there is the official story.

  104. wackythinker wrote:

    New subject: What’s up with Dave Clark leaving Canaan? Is it the beginning of the end of Canaan? There’ve already been comments on this site about Canaan cutting staff and using volunteer help.

    I knew, when they re-started Canaan a couple of years back, Word’s upper management at that time had an anti-sg history. SG didn’t sell the numbers they felt they needed. Perhaps the current management is deciding that’s still the case.

    Anyone else want to weigh in?

  105. DMP wrote:

    Well, I for one am glad we switched topics. Wacky’s new topic sure is lighting up the thread!

  106. wackythinker wrote:

    Yes, DMP, folks are just chomping at the bit to comment on my new subject. ;-)

  107. wackythinker wrote:

    And here’s another question. We hear/read a lot about Jim Hamill’s skill at emceeing, his showmanship, and spontaneity. But it would be interesting to hear from guys who worked with him, to see if he really was that spontaneous. In my foggy memory, it seems we often saw him call on the same band members to do the same solos, etc. I realize certain people are always assigned certain songs. I referring to the “calling of songs,” where there appeared to be no set program — Jim always calling for whatever song he deemed appropriate for the moment.

    And I’m not talking about just changing the program occasionally. It seemed there was NEVER a set program. Was that the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

    Now, don’t get me wrong. I loved Big Jim as much as the next person. I loved his voice, his style, his presentation. . . I’m just wondering if, in our collective nastalgic brains, we might have been romanticizing the era a little too much.

    Not that sg fans would ever do that.

  108. Wade wrote:

    Wacky…one night in Knoxville when the singing was in the theater of The Coliseum and wrestling was in the Main Hall Jim and I wondered over and when The King Jerry Lawler and Robert Fuller saw Jim they invited him over to set just outside the curtain. Jim was always a study of a crowd.

    He is the one who told me about an AUDIENCE will talk to you if you will listen. But in talking that night he told me they had to go back on and do 4 songs. (2nd round you know…lol…)

    He told me he would let me call the first 3 songs in the set but of course he reserved the right to over ride what I called in case it sucked. He said not to tell him what I was going to call but for me to stand by him and tell him the first song when they where introduced but not a second before. Jim could do something I have never been able to master… he could read lips…WELL!!!

    So they introduced the Kingsmen and I said … Beautiful Home after they did that for about 10 minutes he looked over to me and I threw him what I thought would be a curve… GONE… he looked 2x before I think he understood the one word… but even without Foxy there he called it and they did it…really as long as Anthony knew the song there was enough of them on stage they could do anything. The last song I called was SHAKE HANDS WITH A POOR BOY… during the song he walked over and told me I had done good and what would I call next… I ask him who was next… he said Gold City and I said let’s do them a favor and leave the crowd down. OLD SHIP OF ZION… I called… he grinned they did it and the place was going crazy…those knoxville crowds are always more spirited than Chattanooga crowds!!! lol

    Now did they do thing that where planned but appeared to be off the cuff…sure he did… but he was just trying to keep up with Vestal!! lol

  109. Marcy wrote: :
    Where Jonathan Pierce is…..

    His ex-wife Denise is an author and speaker. She is getting married again on April 10, 2010.

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