Comments on: The Poverty Mentality http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/ Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music Thu, 24 May 2012 01:58:42 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: insider http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-976804 insider Tue, 11 Aug 2009 02:31:53 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-976804 Just wanted to say I take offense to the part about $500,000 buses idling in the parking. My bus costed alot more than a measely $500,000, and you better believe I'm proud of it. Just like I'm proud of my home. Nothing sinful or bostful about having wealth and success. If more people would get closer to God and just do the simple things He asks in regards to reaping and sowing, they would have the same riches some of us have. I don't feel bad at all for bragging on God, and the $800,000 bus he's alowed me to purchase. Just wanted to say I take offense to the part about $500,000 buses idling in the parking. My bus costed alot more than a measely $500,000, and you better believe I’m proud of it. Just like I’m proud of my home. Nothing sinful or bostful about having wealth and success. If more people would get closer to God and just do the simple things He asks in regards to reaping and sowing, they would have the same riches some of us have. I don’t feel bad at all for bragging on God, and the $800,000 bus he’s alowed me to purchase.

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-947559 quartet-man Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:08:04 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-947559 Sorry, my typing is bad today "unfortunately" and "ministry" :-) Sorry, my typing is bad today “unfortunately” and “ministry” :-)

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-947558 quartet-man Sat, 11 Jul 2009 20:06:34 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-947558 #34 Robert, of course dressing poor won't make you rich. However, dressing well, driving expensive vehicles and such in SG (and maybe some others starting out) will probably get you less money. At least when asking for donations, love offerings etc. It also might get you accused of selling out or doing it for the wrong motivation by some in SG. It is a fact. In some ways getting any money from much of the SG audience is tough. If they do, it is because they either have to or sometimes they might want to help out a mininstry. Unfortunatley the former seems more often with the majority. These people want to get what they can get for the best price they can get. If they go to love offering concerts, they throw a dollar or two in the plate so as not to be outed as cheap by those looking at them and feel like they have done their part. #34 Robert, of course dressing poor won’t make you rich. However, dressing well, driving expensive vehicles and such in SG (and maybe some others starting out) will probably get you less money. At least when asking for donations, love offerings etc. It also might get you accused of selling out or doing it for the wrong motivation by some in SG. It is a fact. In some ways getting any money from much of the SG audience is tough. If they do, it is because they either have to or sometimes they might want to help out a mininstry. Unfortunatley the former seems more often with the majority. These people want to get what they can get for the best price they can get. If they go to love offering concerts, they throw a dollar or two in the plate so as not to be outed as cheap by those looking at them and feel like they have done their part.

]]> By: Robert http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-939431 Robert Sun, 05 Jul 2009 06:30:30 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-939431 Southern Gospel music is the most poor genre of music. Period. Why? I'll list as many reasons as I can think of in no certain order. 1. The product has to be worth the price. 2. The ministry vs. entertainment argument in itself is stupid. For some reason in SG even those that are diehard fans think artists should be poor, concerts should be cheap, and the finances of the artist should fall from heaven instead of coming from them. 3. Most SG artists have no economic sense. 4. Looking poor will not make you rich. That does not even make any sense. Martin Cook doesn't drive an old pick-up to look poor. He drives it because the same reason the Inspirations drove the same bus for 50 years. The old one worked just fine. 5. It will not get any better as long as we cannot even come close to some kind of agreement on why SG is so poor. One thing is for sure. Mention money alongside SG as a discussion point and an argument will insue. Southern Gospel music is the most poor genre of music. Period. Why? I’ll list as many reasons as I can think of in no certain order.
1. The product has to be worth the price.
2. The ministry vs. entertainment argument in itself is stupid. For some reason in SG even those that are diehard fans think artists should be poor, concerts should be cheap, and the finances of the artist should fall from heaven instead of coming from them.
3. Most SG artists have no economic sense.
4. Looking poor will not make you rich. That does not even make any sense. Martin Cook doesn’t drive an old pick-up to look poor. He drives it because the same reason the Inspirations drove the same bus for 50 years. The old one worked just fine.
5. It will not get any better as long as we cannot even come close to some kind of agreement on why SG is so poor. One thing is for sure. Mention money alongside SG as a discussion point and an argument will insue.

]]> By: chester long http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-937403 chester long Fri, 03 Jul 2009 16:51:27 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-937403 Then why don't we all just call our SG contributions our "service" - better term. And when one of us falls short - it is our service that is soiled - not something errantly called "ministry" - which envokes the notion of pastoral "service" - and pay income taxes like every other business. Then why don’t we all just call our SG contributions our “service” - better term. And when one of us falls short - it is our service that is soiled - not something errantly called “ministry” - which envokes the notion of pastoral “service” - and pay income taxes like every other business.

]]> By: Yeah... http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-937388 Yeah... Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:59:30 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-937388 wacky - #13: Your thoughts are far from wacky! You perfectly expressed what I was trying to say. And chester long - of course we all use dictionaries and a thesaurus as we have need. We live in the real world too. But wacky thinker is right, in that at times a definition given for the masses may be accurate as far as it goes, but in a setting defining Scripture, it can be found to be fairly lacking. Wacky's descriptions of the neat services we can render in everyday settings and situations were perfect, and he'd be the first to admit that it was only partial. All Christian service is true "ministry", and the bottom line of this discussion is that when Christian singing ministers, it's the same category. wacky - #13: Your thoughts are far from wacky! You perfectly expressed what I was trying to say. And chester long - of course we all use dictionaries and a thesaurus as we have need. We live in the real world too. But wacky thinker is right, in that at times a definition given for the masses may be accurate as far as it goes, but in a setting defining Scripture, it can be found to be fairly lacking. Wacky’s descriptions of the neat services we can render in everyday settings and situations were perfect, and he’d be the first to admit that it was only partial. All Christian service is true “ministry”, and the bottom line of this discussion is that when Christian singing ministers, it’s the same category.

]]> By: wackythinker http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-937376 wackythinker Fri, 03 Jul 2009 15:12:42 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-937376 chester long #30 -- The "real world" may at times use dictions for definitions of words, but the fact remains that Webster omitted a lot of the reality of what ministry is. That definition is quite short-sighted. Ministry is not limited to the professional clergy. We all, as Christians, are called to minister to everyone we come in contact with every day. And we often do it in simple everyday tasks, like holding a door for someone, thanking the grocery sacker, giving the beggar at the gas station $5. in Jesus' Name, a smile as you pass a stranger on the street, visiting the sick and lonely, etc. All that (and more)is a part of ministry. Sometimes it's sending a note to a discouraged friend, or singing an encouraging song in a public setting. chester long #30 — The “real world” may at times use dictions for definitions of words, but the fact remains that Webster omitted a lot of the reality of what ministry is. That definition is quite short-sighted.

Ministry is not limited to the professional clergy. We all, as Christians, are called to minister to everyone we come in contact with every day. And we often do it in simple everyday tasks, like holding a door for someone, thanking the grocery sacker, giving the beggar at the gas station $5. in Jesus’ Name, a smile as you pass a stranger on the street, visiting the sick and lonely, etc. All that (and more)is a part of ministry. Sometimes it’s sending a note to a discouraged friend, or singing an encouraging song in a public setting.

]]> By: chester long http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936263 chester long Fri, 03 Jul 2009 01:08:32 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936263 No sarcasm here. That is what I really meant. You see, the real world uses dictionaries for definitions of words. No sarcasm here. That is what I really meant. You see, the real world uses dictionaries for definitions of words.

]]> By: Yeah... http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936164 Yeah... Thu, 02 Jul 2009 22:17:55 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936164 chester long - at times we have to reach out to say what a word really means. No need for the sarcasm, friend. Some feel that singing Christian music is only and always entertainment, with no ministry involved. Others disagree, and they're often the ones actually doing the work. They're the only ones who know their true motivation, right? If some go into it only to entertain, then that's their business, but most audiences will see through it quickly. Others honestly sing to minister, and it's obvious as well. Cynical One - #28: I believe that the true gifts of the Spirit and found in Romans 12 and I Corinthians 12. And nowhere do you find music listed as one of them. It's a talent, in my view. But having said that, it can fall into the Gift of Helps in the view of some. But, as a gift of the Spirit of God, it doesn't seem to be that. It is, however, a grand gift to be shared with the church, and I'm sure thankful for it! chester long - at times we have to reach out to say what a word really means. No need for the sarcasm, friend. Some feel that singing Christian music is only and always entertainment, with no ministry involved. Others disagree, and they’re often the ones actually doing the work. They’re the only ones who know their true motivation, right? If some go into it only to entertain, then that’s their business, but most audiences will see through it quickly. Others honestly sing to minister, and it’s obvious as well.

Cynical One - #28: I believe that the true gifts of the Spirit and found in Romans 12 and I Corinthians 12. And nowhere do you find music listed as one of them. It’s a talent, in my view. But having said that, it can fall into the Gift of Helps in the view of some. But, as a gift of the Spirit of God, it doesn’t seem to be that. It is, however, a grand gift to be shared with the church, and I’m sure thankful for it!

]]> By: cynical one http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936125 cynical one Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:14:06 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936125 re the gift of music: I remember several years ago, when Reba Rambo (whatever last name she was using at the time) had a song titled "He Gave Me Music" (covered by Gary McSpadden). The first verse listed the gifts of the Spirit, then the chorus started with the title/hook, "He gave me music." One friend really had a problem with that song. He said it was as if she were calling musical talent one of the gifts of the Spirit. I can see that, even though the talents we are given are gifts. Any thoughts? re the gift of music: I remember several years ago, when Reba Rambo (whatever last name she was using at the time) had a song titled “He Gave Me Music” (covered by Gary McSpadden). The first verse listed the gifts of the Spirit, then the chorus started with the title/hook, “He gave me music.”

One friend really had a problem with that song. He said it was as if she were calling musical talent one of the gifts of the Spirit. I can see that, even though the talents we are given are gifts.

Any thoughts?

]]> By: chester long http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936119 chester long Thu, 02 Jul 2009 19:08:13 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936119 Sorry to all the eloquent Christianese speaking folks onboard here. I thought we were reaching outside of Churchianity. My mistake. Sorry to all the eloquent Christianese speaking folks onboard here. I thought we were reaching outside of Churchianity.

My mistake.

]]> By: jbb http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936052 jbb Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:17:53 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936052 #22, You hit the nail on the head. If I took to heart everything that was posted here, I would never sing again because we don't have 1. a band 2. we are not full time 3. we use canned music...the list goes on. Thanks for the encouragement. #22, You hit the nail on the head. If I took to heart everything that was posted here, I would never sing again because we don’t have 1. a band 2. we are not full time 3. we use canned music…the list goes on. Thanks for the encouragement.

]]> By: Yeah... http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936033 Yeah... Thu, 02 Jul 2009 18:06:37 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-936033 chester long: I agree with Pedantic. Webster's is a fine dictionary, but it does little justice to Scriptural ministry. The best way to define "ministry" in the New Testament is to use the word "service". To further illustrate my point, please tell me where in the Bible you'll find the word "clergyman" or even "ordained". Webster's defines this word using the vernacular of the day which should be easily understood by most. Any service that is rendered to the Lord or His church is ministry...service. And thus, your argument falls. chester long: I agree with Pedantic. Webster’s is a fine dictionary, but it does little justice to Scriptural ministry. The best way to define “ministry” in the New Testament is to use the word “service”.

To further illustrate my point, please tell me where in the Bible you’ll find the word “clergyman” or even “ordained”. Webster’s defines this word using the vernacular of the day which should be easily understood by most.

Any service that is rendered to the Lord or His church is ministry…service. And thus, your argument falls.

]]> By: Pedantic http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-935888 Pedantic Thu, 02 Jul 2009 16:05:10 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-935888 As difficult as it may be to accept, "Webster" is not the definitive resource when trying to determine what constitutes ministry. As difficult as it may be to accept, “Webster” is not the definitive resource when trying to determine what constitutes ministry.

]]> By: chester long http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-935710 chester long Thu, 02 Jul 2009 13:32:41 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/06/29/the-poverty-mentality/#comment-935710 David K. - I took your challenge and looked it up - preaching doth not a "ministry" make - that word has been abused by so many. "Ministry" has been the gateway to non-profit status for greedy preachers and singers. Webster defines the word as "the work, profession or office of a clergyman" For reference sake - a clergyman is defined as an ordained minister, priest or rabbi. There is nothing wrong with being in business as a gospel singer. Ministry, ministry, ministry . . . please, let's use another word. The world we are claiming to minister to is laughing. David K. - I took your challenge and looked it up - preaching doth not a “ministry” make - that word has been abused by so many. “Ministry” has been the gateway to non-profit status for greedy preachers and singers. Webster defines the word as “the work, profession or office of a clergyman”

For reference sake - a clergyman is defined as an ordained minister, priest or rabbi.

There is nothing wrong with being in business as a gospel singer.

Ministry, ministry, ministry . . . please, let’s use another word. The world we are claiming to minister to is laughing.

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