Comments on: The customer is always … http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/ Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music Thu, 24 May 2012 01:59:49 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: Wade http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-942487 Wade Tue, 07 Jul 2009 17:14:25 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-942487 Howard... Hope you feel better now!!! I understand how you feel...and maybe this will help!! Plus the BEST thing I ever learned was... JUST BECAUSE somebody knocks does not mean you have to go to the door & just because the phone rings does not mean you have to answer. If you are always answering and returning their calls they will continue to call. You are rewarding BAD BEHAVIOR... just like with a kid. My sister can't figure out why her kids always SCREAM!! It is because she responds to it. You are right about song promoters...they are useless. I generally take the calls of the artist... but song promoters get VM ALOT!! Hope that can make you feel even better from here on!! Howard… Hope you feel better now!!! I understand how you feel…and maybe this will help!!

Plus the BEST thing I ever learned was…

JUST BECAUSE somebody knocks does not mean you have to go to the door & just because the phone rings does not mean you have to answer.

If you are always answering and returning their calls they will continue to call. You are rewarding BAD BEHAVIOR… just like with a kid.

My sister can’t figure out why her kids always SCREAM!! It is because she responds to it.

You are right about song promoters…they are useless. I generally take the calls of the artist… but song promoters get VM ALOT!!

Hope that can make you feel even better from here on!!

]]> By: Howard http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-942439 Howard Tue, 07 Jul 2009 14:50:10 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-942439 This is an issue that makes it difficult to program SG radio. I am in the "Bible Belt" where change is accepted even more slowly. SG music is in a transition period. Gone are the classic male quartets, female lead vocalist that rely more on spirit than technique, and the hand clapping, do that last verse one more time mentality. With modern recording technology more artist are able to sing in tune (on record) plus with less variety in studio musicians (playing on these recordings) you get a vanilla, cookie cutter sound. Like it or not, it has given a more consistant sound. That does not make it right or make me like it. Most groups that send singles to radio have absolutely no name recognition. Because my audience does not hear the Spencers, Cathredrals, or other names they have heard of, they are not interested. Some of the classic names that are still out there are just "in name only" the group they used to be. The SG formula used in recording today is to have a song from one of the three or four good song writing teams, get that modern groove with the drums mixed up front, then add (somtimes over tuned)slick vocal arrangements. What is wrong with singing in tune and in time? This has to be a dangerous mixture that will send us all to Hell, according to some of my listeners. What do I do, change with the times and play this better polished music, or read the local paper and see the names of my audience as it slowly dies? It is also difficult dealing with all the independant song promoters that just can not believe you are not charting at least 50% of the 20 songs they ask you about. I get so tired of promoters taking money from groups that can't even sing, then harrasing programmers. There are months I fill out one or somtimes two e-mail rotation charts for some promoters and that is still not enough. They still have to call me and go over it all again. Some groups have more than one promoter working their song, then there are group members, all calls for the same song. Multiply this by 250 songs and you can see why your friendly DJ is not always so friendly. ENOUGH ALREADY! Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I still think I have the best job in the world and I don't want to do anything else. I do not have a problem with major labels or artist. I think it is because quallity music does not need to be over-promoted. This is an issue that makes it difficult to program SG radio. I am in the “Bible Belt” where change is accepted even more slowly. SG music is in a transition period. Gone are the classic male quartets, female lead vocalist that rely more on spirit than technique, and the hand clapping, do that last verse one more time mentality. With modern recording technology more artist are able to sing in tune (on record) plus with less variety in studio musicians (playing on these recordings) you get a vanilla, cookie cutter sound. Like it or not, it has given a more consistant sound. That does not make it right or make me like it.
Most groups that send singles to radio have absolutely no name recognition. Because my audience does not hear the Spencers, Cathredrals, or other names they have heard of, they are not interested. Some of the classic names that are still out there are just “in name only” the group they used to be. The SG formula used in recording today is to have a song from one of the three or four good song writing teams, get that modern groove with the drums mixed up front, then add (somtimes over tuned)slick vocal arrangements. What is wrong with singing in tune and in time? This has to be a dangerous mixture that will send us all to Hell, according to some of my listeners. What do I do, change with the times and play this better polished music, or read the local paper and see the names of my audience as it slowly dies?
It is also difficult dealing with all the independant song promoters that just can not believe you are not charting at least 50% of the 20 songs they ask you about. I get so tired of promoters taking money from groups that can’t even sing, then harrasing programmers. There are months I fill out one or somtimes two e-mail rotation charts for some promoters and that is still not enough. They still have to call me and go over it all again. Some groups have more than one promoter working their song, then there are group members, all calls for the same song. Multiply this by 250 songs and you can see why your friendly DJ is not always so friendly. ENOUGH ALREADY!
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest. I still think I have the best job in the world and I don’t want to do anything else. I do not have a problem with major labels or artist. I think it is because quallity music does not need to be over-promoted.

]]> By: cdguy http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-941090 cdguy Mon, 06 Jul 2009 14:49:10 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-941090 I have some insider info on the Crabbs' cd sales, too, and I can tell you "Letting Go" was not their lowest selling cd. Since it's the newest of the "family" projects, it's really still too early to tell if it will do what "Driven" or "The Walk" have done, but it has surpassed a couple of others, in a shorter amount of time. And by the way, is anybody these days really using the expression "Nobody likes it but the people", besides our moderator? I have some insider info on the Crabbs’ cd sales, too, and I can tell you “Letting Go” was not their lowest selling cd. Since it’s the newest of the “family” projects, it’s really still too early to tell if it will do what “Driven” or “The Walk” have done, but it has surpassed a couple of others, in a shorter amount of time.

And by the way, is anybody these days really using the expression “Nobody likes it but the people”, besides our moderator?

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-940656 quartet-man Mon, 06 Jul 2009 06:13:39 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-940656 Wade, I was just going from many comments I heard along the way, not personal opinion on the project. One can look at someone's career or listen to people commenting on it and presume to have some idea of the pulse. That, coupled with the Crabbs separating after doing so would make some people think they were related. Maybe not, and I have no dog in the fight. Really though, I like them as people and some of their music, no harm or insult intended. Wade, I was just going from many comments I heard along the way, not personal opinion on the project. One can look at someone’s career or listen to people commenting on it and presume to have some idea of the pulse. That, coupled with the Crabbs separating after doing so would make some people think they were related. Maybe not, and I have no dog in the fight. Really though, I like them as people and some of their music, no harm or insult intended.

]]> By: Wade http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-939886 Wade Sun, 05 Jul 2009 18:38:51 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-939886 Q-Man... Got to side with 1madeupmind here... The Crabbs were rocking when they ceased being the original Crabbs. If you are doing as well as they were you are always going to turn SOME BOZO off. Surprised you are commenting on some project you do not even have!! The OAKS are still Great though!! We agree on that!! You are certainly entitled to your opinion, no doubt but state it as such and not.."...and lost quite a bit of fans.”... like you have some kind of hard data... IF...IF they did loose quite a bit of fans... they certainly GAINED MANY MORE. For the BOZO's slamming Jason Crabb because he might not being doing 2 chords and a cloud of dust sgm... then God Bless their hearts!!! BOZO's Q-Man…

Got to side with 1madeupmind here… The Crabbs were rocking when they ceased being the original Crabbs.

If you are doing as well as they were you are always going to turn SOME BOZO off.

Surprised you are commenting on some project you do not even have!!

The OAKS are still Great though!! We agree on that!!

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, no doubt but state it as such and not..”…and lost quite a bit of fans.”… like you have some kind of hard data…

IF…IF they did loose quite a bit of fans… they certainly GAINED MANY MORE.

For the BOZO’s slamming Jason Crabb because he might not being doing 2 chords and a cloud of dust sgm… then God Bless their hearts!!! BOZO’s

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-939227 quartet-man Sun, 05 Jul 2009 03:11:52 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-939227 I have nothing against them or the CD. I will try to get it sometime. Even if I do or don't like it, I can't speak for all. I guess I would have to see total sales for it to have an idea. They may have sold more, but how about total? Also, many may have bought it thinking they were getting a typical Crabb album only to get something that wasn't, I don't know. I guess the big thing would have been to see how many repeat customers they had if they had stuck together and remained on the same course. This wouldn't mean new ones who liked the new music, but the ones who had been with them from before. This would be a better indicator on whether their changing so quickly cost them any fans or not. :-) I have nothing against them or the CD. I will try to get it sometime. Even if I do or don’t like it, I can’t speak for all. I guess I would have to see total sales for it to have an idea. They may have sold more, but how about total? Also, many may have bought it thinking they were getting a typical Crabb album only to get something that wasn’t, I don’t know. I guess the big thing would have been to see how many repeat customers they had if they had stuck together and remained on the same course. This wouldn’t mean new ones who liked the new music, but the ones who had been with them from before. This would be a better indicator on whether their changing so quickly cost them any fans or not. :-)

]]> By: onemadeupmind http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-938612 onemadeupmind Sat, 04 Jul 2009 15:11:44 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-938612 #15-"Ahem, uh made up mind, my opinion is based on many comments I heard made after they released their last CD." 5, 10, 100, 500 friends? I have lots of friends (you should see my facebook over 1000 by name..lol) and if 100% liked or disliked anything it would still be a small portion of any market. Bottom line is from Crabb insiders (family) is it was one of their lowest budget and yet BIGGEST sellers. You should get it! One of the probs with SG genre is the tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater if we or a few of our friends don't like it. People vote with their feet and wallets, and if the wallet is any indication, Crabb won on the last album. #15-”Ahem, uh made up mind, my opinion is based on many comments I heard made after they released their last CD.”

5, 10, 100, 500 friends?

I have lots of friends (you should see my facebook over 1000 by name..lol) and if 100% liked or disliked anything it would still be a small portion of any market.

Bottom line is from Crabb insiders (family) is it was one of their lowest budget and yet BIGGEST sellers. You should get it!

One of the probs with SG genre is the tendency to throw the baby out with the bathwater if we or a few of our friends don’t like it.

People vote with their feet and wallets, and if the wallet is any indication, Crabb won on the last album.

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-938538 quartet-man Sat, 04 Jul 2009 13:40:19 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-938538 Ahem, uh made up mind, my opinion is based on many comments I heard made after they released their last CD. I never got it and it wasn't due to the song selection, style etc. I just never got around to getting it. I intend to rectify that someday. Try not to get so irate over an opinion. Ahem, uh made up mind, my opinion is based on many comments I heard made after they released their last CD. I never got it and it wasn’t due to the song selection, style etc. I just never got around to getting it. I intend to rectify that someday. Try not to get so irate over an opinion.

]]> By: onemadeupmind http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-938179 onemadeupmind Sat, 04 Jul 2009 04:51:34 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-938179 "The Crabbs went too far too fast, and released something too far from their bread and butter and lost quite a bit of fans. " I say Bull! You base your opinion on what study or focus group? “The Crabbs went too far too fast, and released something too far from their bread and butter and lost quite a bit of fans. ”

I say Bull! You base your opinion on what study or focus group?

]]> By: onemadeupmind http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-938018 onemadeupmind Sat, 04 Jul 2009 02:25:08 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-938018 #12--Bull _ _ _ _! The Crabbs were on top of their game when they parted ways. Proven by the lucrative franchises of all the siblings. You will nev er convince me they lost "quite a bit of fans." What survey's and test focus groups do you base your opinion on? #12–Bull _ _ _ _! The Crabbs were on top of their game when they parted ways. Proven by the lucrative franchises of all the siblings. You will nev er convince me they lost “quite a bit of fans.” What survey’s and test focus groups do you base your opinion on?

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937698 quartet-man Fri, 03 Jul 2009 22:43:45 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937698 #11 WT, good point both on the combo and your comment about awards shows. I was thinking more like permanent groups though. :) I also agree that sometimes people will accept other tastes IF they are done right. That is the secret, do it right and probably gradually. In fact, maybe even only on part of an album. The Crabbs went too far too fast, and released something too far from their bread and butter and lost quite a bit of fans. Had they included a song or two on a project and a few songs in concert, they might have eventually gotten more of their fans there. #11 WT, good point both on the combo and your comment about awards shows. I was thinking more like permanent groups though. :) I also agree that sometimes people will accept other tastes IF they are done right. That is the secret, do it right and probably gradually. In fact, maybe even only on part of an album. The Crabbs went too far too fast, and released something too far from their bread and butter and lost quite a bit of fans. Had they included a song or two on a project and a few songs in concert, they might have eventually gotten more of their fans there.

]]> By: wackythinker http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937371 wackythinker Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:58:52 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937371 quartet-man #9 -- or putting Amy Winehouse with Gold City. Actually, these theoretical combinations sould like something some TV executive would put together for a televised awards show. And big dog is correct. They're always the customer. I've contended for a long time that people's musical tastes are more eclectic that most of them realize. If done properly, you can expose the audience to new things, if you do it properly. And most of them will like it. Not everyone will like everything, but most will like something they didn't think they would like. Many may not even realize their tastes have been stretched, but that's ok, too. quartet-man #9 — or putting Amy Winehouse with Gold City.

Actually, these theoretical combinations sould like something some TV executive would put together for a televised awards show.

And big dog is correct. They’re always the customer.

I’ve contended for a long time that people’s musical tastes are more eclectic that most of them realize. If done properly, you can expose the audience to new things, if you do it properly. And most of them will like it. Not everyone will like everything, but most will like something they didn’t think they would like. Many may not even realize their tastes have been stretched, but that’s ok, too.

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937351 quartet-man Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:22:44 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937351 Sorry, "drive thru" Sorry, “drive thru”

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937348 quartet-man Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:21:47 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937348 One thing I meant to add in my previous post was that if they want to create something different or a variation, let them call it something different. The restaurant has added new sandwiches to the line up, and that too is fine. However, the restaurant is a slice of Americana and even having "chefs" instead of cooks is akin to placing chefs in a diner or drive through. It doesn't fit the need. It would be like placing a heavy metal band with the Isaacs or an accordion with Mercy Me. One thing I meant to add in my previous post was that if they want to create something different or a variation, let them call it something different. The restaurant has added new sandwiches to the line up, and that too is fine. However, the restaurant is a slice of Americana and even having “chefs” instead of cooks is akin to placing chefs in a diner or drive through. It doesn’t fit the need. It would be like placing a heavy metal band with the Isaacs or an accordion with Mercy Me.

]]> By: quartet-man http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937340 quartet-man Fri, 03 Jul 2009 14:16:35 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/07/02/the-customer-is-always/#comment-937340 I think if a lot of SG fans will accept change, they will not so much accept sudden, extreme changes. SG music IS different than the '50's. In the '60's instruments were brought in more. Eventually later orchestration was added. So, I think it comes down to gradual change. They might accept a little different mixed in, but not too dramatic and not too much too soon. It also depends on I suppose who does it and how it is done. If they love the artists, it might be accepted more. If whatever attracted them to the artist remains (or at least much of it) the might accept it. The point is (as has been already pointed out) ultimately you have to give the customers what they want or they bail. Recently I went to a restaurant that had millions spent to restore it to a good point in how it looked when it was started early last century. It had been closed for a few years due to the death of one of the owners who was the one who had been running it. Anyhow, visibly the restoration is awesome and likely no expense spared. But there have been some grave errors which make me and others not want to go back. At least not for the food. One thing that is important, but not quite as comparable to this discussion is that the prices for one of their main sandwiches more than doubled in price from where it was just around 3-4 years ago, to a price that is out of the market. A point that is more relative to this discussion is that they have changed and seemingly continue to change the recipe to the food. It wasn't very close at all to what it was and wasn't an improvement at all. I asked an employee from there who is online, about it. She says they have chefs not cooks and although they have the original recipe, they are experimenting around with it. When I had it, it was bland and missing the spices and sauce that helped make it so good. Another day, customers complained that it was too spicy. Here these bozos (and I use that term with affection ;-) ) are more interested in making their mark and flexing their creative muscles than in giving the customers what they want and already loved. People order this item (which has classic added to the name making people think they are getting just what they got before) and are substituting their own inferior creation / modification. This was pretty much THE sandwich that they are known for and was unique to that restaurant. How stupid is that? Even if the "chefs" think they have a better way, they aren't catering (no pun intended) to their customers and are losing some due to it. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot. I think if a lot of SG fans will accept change, they will not so much accept sudden, extreme changes. SG music IS different than the ’50’s. In the ’60’s instruments were brought in more. Eventually later orchestration was added.

So, I think it comes down to gradual change. They might accept a little different mixed in, but not too dramatic and not too much too soon. It also depends on I suppose who does it and how it is done. If they love the artists, it might be accepted more. If whatever attracted them to the artist remains (or at least much of it) the might accept it.

The point is (as has been already pointed out) ultimately you have to give the customers what they want or they bail.

Recently I went to a restaurant that had millions spent to restore it to a good point in how it looked when it was started early last century. It had been closed for a few years due to the death of one of the owners who was the one who had been running it. Anyhow, visibly the restoration is awesome and likely no expense spared. But there have been some grave errors which make me and others not want to go back. At least not for the food. One thing that is important, but not quite as comparable to this discussion is that the prices for one of their main sandwiches more than doubled in price from where it was just around 3-4 years ago, to a price that is out of the market. A point that is more relative to this discussion is that they have changed and seemingly continue to change the recipe to the food. It wasn’t very close at all to what it was and wasn’t an improvement at all. I asked an employee from there who is online, about it. She says they have chefs not cooks and although they have the original recipe, they are experimenting around with it. When I had it, it was bland and missing the spices and sauce that helped make it so good. Another day, customers complained that it was too spicy. Here these bozos (and I use that term with affection ;-) ) are more interested in making their mark and flexing their creative muscles than in giving the customers what they want and already loved. People order this item (which has classic added to the name making people think they are getting just what they got before) and are substituting their own inferior creation / modification. This was pretty much THE sandwich that they are known for and was unique to that restaurant. How stupid is that? Even if the “chefs” think they have a better way, they aren’t catering (no pun intended) to their customers and are losing some due to it. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot.

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