Comments on: Control issues http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/ Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music Thu, 24 May 2012 02:42:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.3 By: Stinky http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1089061 Stinky Wed, 27 Jan 2010 18:17:54 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1089061 #19 Michael Booth, Have you ever heard the song Can The World See Jesus in Me? A Promoter I work with had your group there,you agreed to come back,it was advertised with your permission. Your Booking agent (Harper) cancled because the promoter had another group on the concert.I can understand you wanting the entire program yourselves but you broke your word to the fans and the promoter. You should have come as you agreed to and inform the promoter that next time you must have the stage alone. The Booking Agent said take it or leave it. So he left it. Don't forget the promoters and the fans that got you where you are, they can also take you back to where you were. #19 Michael Booth, Have you ever heard the song Can The World See Jesus in Me? A Promoter I work with had your group there,you agreed to come back,it was advertised with your permission. Your Booking agent (Harper) cancled because the promoter had another group on the concert.I can understand you wanting the entire program yourselves but you broke your word to the fans and the promoter. You should have come as you agreed to and inform the promoter that next time you must have the stage alone. The Booking Agent said take it or leave it. So he left it. Don’t forget the promoters and the fans that got you where you are, they can also take you back to where you were.

]]> By: Robert http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1036098 Robert Tue, 03 Nov 2009 00:23:16 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1036098 To me it is as simple as this. You are a singer and feel God has given you a gift to spread His word through music. A church calls and books you. You don't go to the church and preach. You are a preacher and feel God has called you and gives you the gift to preach His word. A church calls you to come preach their revival. You don't go a sing their revival. To me it is as simple as this.
You are a singer and feel God has given you a gift to spread His word through music. A church calls and books you. You don’t go to the church and preach.
You are a preacher and feel God has called you and gives you the gift to preach His word. A church calls you to come preach their revival. You don’t go a sing their revival.

]]> By: Wade http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1028810 Wade Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:05:48 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1028810 #42... Funny that you make that post and your others on a thread called CONTROL ISSUES. Bet ya got'em. You might need some medication for that OCD! #42… Funny that you make that post and your others on a thread called CONTROL ISSUES. Bet ya got’em. You might need some medication for that OCD!

]]> By: Wade http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1028809 Wade Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:03:21 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1028809 #42... have not posted in a while but after reading that... SERIOUS EYE ROLL!! Get over yourself! #42… have not posted in a while but after reading that… SERIOUS EYE ROLL!!

Get over yourself!

]]> By: yeah... http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1028184 yeah... Sat, 17 Oct 2009 02:39:20 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1028184 #41, I shared no gossip, just to set the record straight. But, anyone who spent any amount of time around JD in earlier years has their stories to tell. Me too. And that's why I said that using him as an example of whether or not one should speak the Gospel in a concert was kind of funny. I still believe that when it's done well and properly, it's a good thing. However, I also agree that some are more gifted in doing so than others. #41, I shared no gossip, just to set the record straight. But, anyone who spent any amount of time around JD in earlier years has their stories to tell. Me too. And that’s why I said that using him as an example of whether or not one should speak the Gospel in a concert was kind of funny. I still believe that when it’s done well and properly, it’s a good thing. However, I also agree that some are more gifted in doing so than others.

]]> By: Soli Deo Gloria http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027971 Soli Deo Gloria Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:15:18 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027971 #41- Anyone who fears they might be wrong about salvation is, by default, wrong about salvation. Salvation is not ambiguous and subject to interpretation. There is one exclusive path to salvation. Perhaps the over-glorified ticketholding audience member should be sharing the Gospel with the unsure gospel singer. Regarding Mr. Sumner generally, I have no idea whether he was a believer, nor did I make any representation in my previous post one way or the other (though I can tell that's where you want to go with this). From an objective perspective, the guy produced a lot of seriously rotten fruit over the course of his life (see his above quote, for example). I pray he was a believer; however, whether he was or wasn't is secondary to this discussion, which is whether he should have been preaching the Gospel in any way. Based on the objective evidence, I do not see how the answer to that can be anything but a resounding NO. And that goes for lots and lots and lots of gospel singers, past and present. #41- Anyone who fears they might be wrong about salvation is, by default, wrong about salvation. Salvation is not ambiguous and subject to interpretation. There is one exclusive path to salvation. Perhaps the over-glorified ticketholding audience member should be sharing the Gospel with the unsure gospel singer.

Regarding Mr. Sumner generally, I have no idea whether he was a believer, nor did I make any representation in my previous post one way or the other (though I can tell that’s where you want to go with this). From an objective perspective, the guy produced a lot of seriously rotten fruit over the course of his life (see his above quote, for example).

I pray he was a believer; however, whether he was or wasn’t is secondary to this discussion, which is whether he should have been preaching the Gospel in any way. Based on the objective evidence, I do not see how the answer to that can be anything but a resounding NO. And that goes for lots and lots and lots of gospel singers, past and present.

]]> By: BUICK http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027765 BUICK Fri, 16 Oct 2009 02:38:51 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027765 #39 & #40 - can you be more specific about why you say what you did about JD? And I do not mean just rumors and innuendo. Do you KNOW something that would cause you to say that "JD was likely wrong concerning salvation" etc. or are you just passing along unsubstantiated gossip? #39 & #40 - can you be more specific about why you say what you did about JD? And I do not mean just rumors and innuendo. Do you KNOW something that would cause you to say that “JD was likely wrong concerning salvation” etc. or are you just passing along unsubstantiated gossip?

]]> By: yeah... http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027630 yeah... Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:45:52 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027630 I had to chuckle...using J.D Sumner to teach us the ways of the Gospel. Imagine! My, my. Michael Booth, keep on posting here, will you? Your heart and thoughts are being revealed, and they are needed here in a big way. Well done, Michael. Thanks. I had to chuckle…using J.D Sumner to teach us the ways of the Gospel. Imagine! My, my. Michael Booth, keep on posting here, will you? Your heart and thoughts are being revealed, and they are needed here in a big way. Well done, Michael. Thanks.

]]> By: Soli Deo Gloria http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027554 Soli Deo Gloria Thu, 15 Oct 2009 16:50:45 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027554 #36- "It is my belief that when a man buys a ticket to get in, you’re infringing on that man’s rights to try to cram your ideas of salvation down his throat — because you might be wrong..." If you "might be wrong" regarding salvation, you have no business in a southern gospel group. JD Sumner was likely wrong regarding salvation, which should have disqualified him from presenting the Gospel. He was right not to preach, but wrong to keep singing. Mr. Sumner is an example of what was and is wrong with southern gospel regarding this particular topic. Citing him in defense of not preaching during southern gospel concerts is not even remotely persuasive. #36- “It is my belief that when a man buys a ticket to get in, you’re infringing on that man’s rights to try to cram your ideas of salvation down his throat — because you might be wrong…”

If you “might be wrong” regarding salvation, you have no business in a southern gospel group.

JD Sumner was likely wrong regarding salvation, which should have disqualified him from presenting the Gospel. He was right not to preach, but wrong to keep singing.

Mr. Sumner is an example of what was and is wrong with southern gospel regarding this particular topic. Citing him in defense of not preaching during southern gospel concerts is not even remotely persuasive.

]]> By: Lewis Wells http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027404 Lewis Wells Thu, 15 Oct 2009 05:26:26 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027404 #35...In my experience, most who've read his book, even if/when they don't agree with it's premise or teaching, freely admit that it's difficult, if not impossible, to argue with the scriptural points he presents, especially when considered against historical events that demonstrate how orthodox methods of belief on the Godhead were arrived at. Most of those in this grouping, when asked why they disagree, can't really say except that it challenges so much of what they've been taught and accepted. The common perception of what he's teaching, or rather the common misperception, among those who haven't read his writing or heard his teaching is that he belittles the role of Jesus Christ in salvation. He doesn't. I may not agree with all elements of his teachings myself, but I think heresy is too strong a word to attach to it. Of course, you're entitled to your opinion on the matter. I'd suggest reading the entire book before passing conclusive judgment. I, too, was ready to put it down early. #35…In my experience, most who’ve read his book, even if/when they don’t agree with it’s premise or teaching, freely admit that it’s difficult, if not impossible, to argue with the scriptural points he presents, especially when considered against historical events that demonstrate how orthodox methods of belief on the Godhead were arrived at. Most of those in this grouping, when asked why they disagree, can’t really say except that it challenges so much of what they’ve been taught and accepted.

The common perception of what he’s teaching, or rather the common misperception, among those who haven’t read his writing or heard his teaching is that he belittles the role of Jesus Christ in salvation. He doesn’t.

I may not agree with all elements of his teachings myself, but I think heresy is too strong a word to attach to it. Of course, you’re entitled to your opinion on the matter.

I’d suggest reading the entire book before passing conclusive judgment. I, too, was ready to put it down early.

]]> By: Kevin http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027265 Kevin Wed, 14 Oct 2009 23:07:44 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027265 #34: Hello! No, money isn't the only thing motivating me to go to church. I love worshipping God, and enjoy fellowship with the other sheep, too. :) Even the meanies can be entertaining to observe! But, being a paid church musician has just been a part of my typical church experience for years. The point was in response to your inquiry: would I leave if I disagreed with a Pastor. I would just pray for the sermon to end soon so we can get to the next song! :) #34: Hello! No, money isn’t the only thing motivating me to go to church. I love worshipping God, and enjoy fellowship with the other sheep, too. :) Even the meanies can be entertaining to observe! But, being a paid church musician has just been a part of my typical church experience for years. The point was in response to your inquiry: would I leave if I disagreed with a Pastor. I would just pray for the sermon to end soon so we can get to the next song! :)

]]> By: NG http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027217 NG Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:54:33 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027217 JD wrote the following in 1994 in his book "The Life and Times of JD Sumner" "Many singers think to be popular in . . . Southern gospel music, you have to preach and cry and testify. It is my belief that when a man buys a ticket to get in, you're infringing on that man's rights to try to cram your ideas of salvation down his throat -- because you might be wrong and his own previous beliefs might have been right. "My wife passed away in 1992. She was sick. If I had done the norm, I would have gone on stage every night and got the sympathy of the people -- got a lot of them to pray for her and sold a lot more records. . . . "I never brought up Mary's illness on stage, not once. I sang to the people who came to hear us. I tried to entertain not make them feel sorry for Mary and me and perhaps go home crying." , , , "You can't fiorget the message of the song. I heard Earl Weatherford sing "What a Precious Friend is He." . . . When he finished, Earl said "What else could I add to that song?" He was right. He didn't have to preach about it for twenty minutes. The song said it all. . . . That's the way we're suppose to reach the people." JD wrote the following in 1994 in his book “The Life and Times of JD Sumner”

“Many singers think to be popular in . . . Southern gospel music, you have to preach and cry and testify. It is my belief that when a man buys a ticket to get in, you’re infringing on that man’s rights to try to cram your ideas of salvation down his throat — because you might be wrong and his own previous beliefs might have been right.

“My wife passed away in 1992. She was sick. If I had done the norm, I would have gone on stage every night and got the sympathy of the people — got a lot of them to pray for her and sold a lot more records.

. . . “I never brought up Mary’s illness on stage, not once. I sang to the people who came to hear us. I tried to entertain not make them feel sorry for Mary and me and perhaps go home crying.”

, , , “You can’t fiorget the message of the song. I heard Earl Weatherford sing “What a Precious Friend is He.” . . . When he finished, Earl said “What else could I add to that song?” He was right. He didn’t have to preach about it for twenty minutes. The song said it all. . . . That’s the way we’re suppose to reach the people.”

]]> By: Mike McIlwain http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027125 Mike McIlwain Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:28:57 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027125 #33, Lewis, I have not read Hemphill's book all the way through, but I have read enough to realize that he espouses a different Jesus than what is revealed in the scriptures. #33, Lewis, I have not read Hemphill’s book all the way through, but I have read enough to realize that he espouses a different Jesus than what is revealed in the scriptures.

]]> By: lovelife http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027054 lovelife Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:44:39 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1027054 #26: No, I would not support an artist if they were promoting or saying things that were not in line with the Bible. I do realize that there are those, singing and preaching, that are putting on a form of Godliness. My point was more about agendas like healthcare, the war, and other political agendas. I'm not blasting anyone. Kevin: Is that the only reason you go to church is to get paid? I'm just going by what you said and believe me, I'm not criticizing you. I agree that Christians can be unChrist-like and downright mean. I was raised in a ministers home and a Christian home. I have seen the devil come out in alot of christian people, but, I'm thankful for my roots. It's made me realize I have to not focus on people and focus on God. I go to church now because I need it. I need God and I need to assemble with other Christians. Trust me, there have been times I've come home from church and wondered why I went, but, through my spiritual growth I have realized it's not about me or "them" it's about HIM. God Bless #26: No, I would not support an artist if they were promoting or saying things that were not in line with the Bible. I do realize that there are those, singing and preaching, that are putting on a form of Godliness. My point was more about agendas like healthcare, the war, and other political agendas. I’m not blasting anyone.
Kevin: Is that the only reason you go to church is to get paid? I’m just going by what you said and believe me, I’m not criticizing you. I agree that Christians can be unChrist-like and downright mean. I was raised in a ministers home and a Christian home. I have seen the devil come out in alot of christian people, but, I’m thankful for my roots. It’s made me realize I have to not focus on people and focus on God. I go to church now because I need it. I need God and I need to assemble with other Christians. Trust me, there have been times I’ve come home from church and wondered why I went, but, through my spiritual growth I have realized it’s not about me or “them” it’s about HIM.
God Bless

]]> By: Lewis Wells http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1026875 Lewis Wells Wed, 14 Oct 2009 03:13:21 +0000 http://averyfineline.com/2009/10/10/control-issues/#comment-1026875 #31...Not intending to sidetrack the comments, but have you read Joel's book? #31…Not intending to sidetrack the comments, but have you read Joel’s book?

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