Criticism and commentary on southern gospel music
Item No. 1: a Greenes Tenth Anniversary Live album without all the talking.
Item No. 2: a Hoppers Live in Greenville album without all the talking.
That’s what Goldwave is for.
Posted 08 Mar 2010 at 10:56 pm ¶
I can make one for you….provided the original discs. No charge, just because I love the blog.
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 2:45 am ¶
Greg’s Thematically Related Wish List:
1) SG concerts with less talk, and no recycled, corny humor.
2) SG concerts featuring the main attraction(s) without untalented local acts of the “Brother Note Shaver/Sister Pitchy” variety.
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 7:11 am ¶
Young Grasshopper wrote:
My wish list is to have a music mentor. I asked The Hoppers to publish a guitar recorded version songbook so I could play along with their songs. There’s an old zen proverb “when the student is ready, the teacher will appear. Our industry would become stronger and everyone would benefit by having a mentor program.
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 10:20 am ¶
1.The Gaither Trio Live in Indiana with talking..because the talking’s good.2.The Stamps Live in Murray State with talking..because JD’s exceedingly funny.
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 5:26 pm ¶
I have found with most live CD’s, the talking (or at least some) is good at first listen, but sometimes with repeated listening gets in the way. It depends on the talking and whether you want a concert experience or a music compilation type experience.
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 8:33 pm ¶
irishlad, i happen to own a copy of the Live in Murray State album, (i also happen to have a cd of the greenes tenth ann. cd somewhere). would be happy to make a copy for you…
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 9:32 pm ¶
When I transfer live albums, tapes or CDs to my own CDs I make the talking parts separate tracks whether they are humorous or preaching. Then I can listen to them or not depending on how I’m feeling that day. If I put live tracks on a compilation disk then I eliminate the talking.
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 9:40 pm ¶
#8 NG, that is just what I o too.
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 10:41 pm ¶
Posted 09 Mar 2010 at 10:42 pm ¶
Shorty Bradford wrote:
I loved how on the Stamps at Murray State albums J.D.’s talking was all of side 2. That left all of sides 1, 3, and 4 for music. If you wanted to hear J.D. talk you could play side 2. If you wanted music there were 3 wonderful sides with nothing but. A pretty great way to give people your funny stories and song after song after song without the interruptions.
Posted 10 Mar 2010 at 12:36 am ¶
Charlie Sexton wrote:
The Rowlands did arecording entitled “Live and Alive” from the early 90s. It was done at 11th Avenue Baptist Church in Dalton, GA. It was a wonderful, spiritual church service with good singin’, shoutin’, prayin’ and testifyin’. The Rowlands released it (on cassette) in two different versions… One was the complete service, the other was just the songs only. I guess the record company was attempting to be politically correct…
Posted 10 Mar 2010 at 4:39 pm ¶
William R. Boen wrote:
A live album should be a live album,including the talking, intros.,etc.If you don’t want talking then buy a regular album. All the same songs are usually available.
Posted 10 Mar 2010 at 4:51 pm ¶
I tend to agree with William…
Posted 10 Mar 2010 at 5:58 pm ¶
#13 I disagree to some degree. Live versions are often better, more lively or are arranged differently. Now, without bands, there are less differences, but there are still differences and I often like live versions better. They tend to be less sterile or sanitized.
Posted 10 Mar 2010 at 8:33 pm ¶
I like live albums that capture the energy of a live concert setting in ways that studio recordings have a hard time replicating. Usually this requires a live band. Can anyone name a good live southern gospel recording that is sung to tracks?
Lots of talking is not inherently a part of a live recording. It’s the energy of a live performance that makes a live album more compelling than the studio versions. The producer should, in theory, be responsible for helping the artist determine what talking to put on the album and what to leave on the cutting room floor. I doubt there have been very many live albums where the engineers just hit the record button and then immediately started dubbing copies to sell. It might be tempting to say that a live album should be a live album, including the talking, intros, etc. But there’s always some editing done–some dialogue, and even some songs, edited out. Sometimes there’s too much talking; sometimes whoever’s talking gets his or her tongue all tied up and it doesn’t come out right; sometimes a song they wanted to include was messed up so badly that it was beyond repair, even with studio wizardry. And most concerts are longer than the average 45 to 50 minute live album to begin with. There’s always picking and choosing about what to include and what to leave out.
Posted 10 Mar 2010 at 9:42 pm ¶
I’m w/ #13
Posted 10 Mar 2010 at 10:10 pm ¶
#16 and sometimes they have to edit out because the 74 minute CD won’t hold an hour and a half or so concert.
Posted 10 Mar 2010 at 10:56 pm ¶
I agree with #13 also……some things we have to make a choice about ourselves LOL LOL LOL
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 3:30 am ¶
I just recently transfered Live Naturally by the Kingsmen from 1981 to Cd-R. This is one of my all time favourite live albums. Some talking, but not too much. Jim’s story about Ernie scaring him still brings a smile after all these years. I set it though so if I just want to hear the songs, I can skip the talking. It’s great! I will never tire of that album.
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 9:20 am ¶
Russell, Russell, Russell (#7) - you KNOW that is illegal.
This does raise a point I have been pondering lately. Often on this blog, people compare SG concerts with the concerts in other genres. Does any secular artist/group talk as much between songs as SG folk do? Is that one reason that our non-SG-fan friends don’t like our concerts? I wonder if, because the musicians try to mix ministry with entertainment, the do frequent and lengthy intros to the songs and disrupt the rhythm of the program.
I’ve also wondered if that might have been what Jake was getting at when he started the Imperials and said he wanted a quartet that could stand flat-footed and sing for 90 minutes without repeating a song. Most of us assumed that he meant that encores would not be repeats. And that may have been part of it. But maybe, having spent so many years with Hovie, he meant, “Let’s just sing and let the music present the message.”
Some artists act as if they think the music is not capable of carrying the message so they have to augment it with talk. They also act like they think the music is not good enough to keep people’s attention without their jokes. (”I’ll just give you a B and you’ll flat it yourselves.”) It makes me wonder if the artists are insecure about their own genre, their own songs and their own performance.
So we get lots of talk at the concert: talk because they genuinely want to minister and talk because they don’t think the music mediates the message. At least that’s what I’ve been wondering lately.
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 10:31 am ¶
I enjoy live concert recordings, because the groups tend to really pull out the stops for a live recording where they would play it safe in a studio. They’re more likely to go around again for another verse, or an a capella chorus, or throw out a big ending that they’ve been working on but haven’t done yet. Plus, the songs tend to evolve as they age, and the radio versions and live versions can diverge quite a bit. It’s always interesting to see how the performances change as the groups get really comfortable with them on stage.
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 11:02 am ¶
Ron F wrote:
Live albums seemed to be more popular in the Eightys and early ninetys but the groups seemed to have gotten away from it. I loved them back then, but now since Im a few years older I like the studio versions, because you can tell more about the groups vocals.
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 12:54 pm ¶
Blake Edmondson wrote:
#1: Another Perrys live album of all new songs.
#2 to infinity: Refer to #1
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 5:51 pm ¶
I’d love to have some of the classic live albums from the ’70s reissued. A couple people already mentioned “Live at Murray State”, but every artist on Heartwarming put out live albums - singles at first, then double-lives - many of which gave great performances of not only their hits but many of the other songs that filled their respective catalogues. The Downings did a great live album in Muncie, Indiana in ‘70 or ‘71; that was a classic. The Speers and Doug Oldham did a double-live record at Massey Hall in Toronto in ‘74 or ‘75; when they finished “To God Be The Glory” using Doug’s track, the way the natural reverb in the hall was captured was amazing. That’s still a moment on that record that gives me a chill every time I play it. A couple of years ago I found a still-sealed LP of the Oaks “Performance” from 1971 - that’s one of my favorite albums, live or studio. I say, find the masters and bring them back.
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 5:55 pm ¶
The Crabb Family released one 2005, Hoppers in 2009 I don’t think they are entirely extinct.
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 8:50 pm ¶
The Rambos recorded a couple of great live albums in the ’70s.
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 10:18 pm ¶
Buick #21, just a question:
If you owned a cd copy (forget the logistics) of an old, out-of-print album that no one could find anywhere, much less from the artist. Is that really violating the SPIRIT of copyright laws?
I don’t think so. Now, if that album is still in print and we are distributing copies, well, that’s a different story.
I guess the only argument you could possibly make is that if you distribute old copies, you take away the demand/appeal for the revival of old copies, but I say that is too speculative to realistically ascertain.
Just a few thoughts for the legalistic folks in life.
Posted 11 Mar 2010 at 10:49 pm ¶
#21, #28, I have opinions, but am not getting into that debate right now. What I will bring up is no one said for sure whether Doug had or didn’t have the originals. If he does, then technically, he has a right to back them up (though in this case someone else would be doing the backing up and editing.)
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 12:51 am ¶
#25 I have it, but you are fortunate to find Performance at all, let alone sealed. I think I found a Sealed copy some time ago too, but my records are packed away currently.
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 12:53 am ¶
I have 2 copies of that and IT IS THE BEST EVER!!!
I listened to it so much I can do most of the dialogue from the discussed TALKING in that recording…I can hear DA say now “Jesus was a tall well built man…”
If I could get that and the live version of KING JESUS with the 3 or 4 encores I would be happy never to listen to any thing else EVER!!!
We must get together and have a listening party some time.
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 2:44 am ¶
#26…The Hoppers live album released in 2009 wasn’t entirely live though, as what Avery and others are talking about. Today, most of the “live-ness” for sg groups at least is canned and applause added to make it sound better than it actually was. Vocals are re-recorded, etc., so it’s hard to say it’s a true “live” record.
There is no better record in the industry than the Greene’s 10th Anniversary Live…talking included. I wish the video was still available.
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 5:38 am ¶
#31 Wade, the live King Jesus with encores is the best. That, Performance, and the live versions of Jesus Is Coming Soon are all good (although I have heard the Jesus Is Coming Soon so much they have lost some with me.) What belongs in the same category and rates in greatness with King Jesus are a couple of things that you might not have heard (at least one of them.) The first is a live version of What A Time We Will Have Over There. It makes the studio version sounds sanitized and on this Joe is comfortable enough to cut loose like he has many times since. He was restrained on the lp as it was his first cut after joining the Oaks and he recut Willie’s vocals. The next is Just A Little Talk With Jesus on their Live LP on their own label. You can find another live performance of the arrangement which is essentially the same at the link below:
If we are talking some other great and rare things of theirs (albeit studio and not live) I would add Look Away Mama and Don’t Be Late to the list.
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 9:41 am ¶
I was recently at a CCM concert called Winter Jam in Knoxville, TN. The concert lasted 4hrs and had 6 main stream acts and it was so similar to an SG concert that it wasn’t even funny. They did the talking and had some ministry and they also shared “Holt International”…similar to Compassion and World Vision. They also had an evangelist named Tony Nolan who shared a 20min message and gave an altar call in the audiotorium. Thousands came to Christ that night!! Sounds very similar to an SG concert to me except on a much larger and more musically talented scale!
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 10:04 am ¶
John C wrote:
Seems like a lot of folks enjoyed the Oak’s live recordings. So did I. I always thought Duane Allen was a great emcee. Never said too much and what he said was thought provoking and not preachy.
In light of the current discussions that are on this thread, I’ve heard the tale that the great promoter W.B. Nowlin got tired of hearing endless talking from the stage. The groups complained that they needed to “talk” in order to sell product. Nowlin disagreed, but needed just the right group to prove his point.
Nowlin made a proposition to Duane Allen and the Oak Ridge Boys: Go on stage, sing your entire set, don’t say a word of introduction to any of the songs, and if you don’t sell as much or more product than you did the last time in Ft. Worth, then I’ll make up the difference.
Needless to say, the product sales were tremendous that evening for the Oak Ridge Boys. They were happy, the audience was happy, and once again, WB Nowlin was correct.
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 4:48 pm ¶
David J. Stuart wrote:
Just like when they made a double CD set of the Kingsmen’s Stand Up at Opryland and Mississippi Live, they took all the talking out and put only the songs on it. Maybe cause of space on the project.
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 5:39 pm ¶
David Bruce Murray wrote:
Modern “live” recordings feel fake when the artists use tracks. By the time vocals are overdubbed, etc., they may as well just dub applause over the studio CD and be done with it.
Posted 12 Mar 2010 at 8:40 pm ¶
all this talk of old live albums has made me want to convert some of mine into the digital realm. I had an uncle give me a stack of old records from a house that he cleaned out to sell. there is a live double albums of the singing rambo’s, a downings album called birthplace, the original alleluia praise gathering album by the gaithers, the best of the sego brothers and naomi on scripture records, and a lewis family record called lewis country on canaan records. i haven’t listene to any of these yet, but they all look to be in very good shape. i hope to find a hidden gem or two among these songs.
Posted 13 Mar 2010 at 1:02 am ¶
Ahhh BDM… They DO!!
Posted 13 Mar 2010 at 3:54 am ¶
Idon’t mind talking on a live album,what i hate is crying.I remember a live Kingsmen LP from the late 70’s when a certain guy got to testifyin’ and then blubbering..say no more.
Posted 13 Mar 2010 at 5:13 am ¶
#40 - Which K’men LP? “Chattanooga Live?”? You talkin’ about RDR just before he encored ‘The Old Ship Of Zion” ? If so, I hope you were just joking. That was someone who was truly feeling the spirit of the moment. If you were serious, I’ll be back later. I’ve got some praying to do for a certain Irishladdy…
Posted 13 Mar 2010 at 10:27 am ¶
Charles Brady wrote:
The Irish can sure be a hard hearted lot……
Tearful in Carolina…
Posted 14 Mar 2010 at 12:21 am ¶
Charlie… I first thought of Ed Crawford on WHEN MOMMA PRAYED on Mississippi Live. He cried at the same place ever night much like Pegs Shoes aFLYIN’ oft did.
But I am SURE Irish Laddy will clarify!! He’s not usually shy.
Posted 14 Mar 2010 at 3:57 am ¶
#43 Got it i one Wadey buddy,and i didn’t even know about the “repeat performance”.The word contrived springs to mind, the truth be told the whole thing left me feeling uncomfortable,not in a guilty way mind…just slightly embarrassed by the mawkishness of it.Don’t forget our unbelieving friends who are normally unexposed to such an insular genre of music could easily doubt the sincerity of such an outpouring.
Posted 14 Mar 2010 at 10:38 am ¶
On the thought of live projects-
I think one of the best live projects that has come around in a while is the kingdom heir’s newest one.
Passionate singing with wonderful nuances that are not on the studio version. Great emcee work/talking. A great live band (yes they do use split tracks but there are times in the recording where you can tell its all band), enthusiastic crowd.
Just all around a wonderful live recording from top to bottom…probably one of the gold standards for modern live videos.
Posted 16 Mar 2010 at 1:05 pm ¶
A bit off topic, but I am hoping someone may be able to enlighten me. If you’ve ordered any of the DVDs for sale on this site, can you tell me what the quality is like? Are they worth it? Seems like a lot of not-so-famous groups. But as a collector, I can overlook that for the other groups I may like. However, I’m wondering if they’re worth it.
Posted 16 Mar 2010 at 6:26 pm ¶
Re: #35’s W.B. Nowlin story…
Nowlin stories abound in gospel lore…and it was apparent to a lot of artists he encountered that groups’ talking on stage was a concern of his.
I am aware of a story involving the time that Nowlin attended a concert in Texas that featured the Couriers, who never worked a Nowlin promoted event, but who were also very aware of him and his reputation.
After the concert, so the story goes, Nowlin had a conversation with the Couriers’ Dave Kyllonen, which went like this:
W.B.- Whenever I go to hear a group, I put fifteen pennies in the left
pocket of my suit coat . Every time that group sings a song, I transfer a
penny from my left pocket to my right pocket. I do that to keep track of
how many songs they give the people, as opposed to talking.
Dave- Well, how did we do?
W.B.- I now only have one penny in my left pocket.
Posted 17 Mar 2010 at 4:21 am ¶
There have been several live sg albums lately. In addition to the ones mentioned above, Legacy 5 did one a couple of years ago, and Greater Vision just released one.
As for the copyright question, making a copy for your own use is not illegal. It’s when either the original or the copy changes hands that there’s a problem. And being out-of-print does not negate the copyright. It still requires written permission of the copyright holder.
And it doesn’t matter if you can’t find the copyright holder. That would be about like saying, “I couldn’t find the owner of the store, so I just took that loaf of bread.”
Posted 23 Mar 2010 at 10:44 am ¶
“It was day-old bread, so it shouldn’t matter.”
Posted 23 Mar 2010 at 10:45 am ¶
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