NQC 10: A Few previously self-censored words about the Piety Police

The other day James Fallows noted that “Usually you regret the harsh things you say more than the harsh things you decide not to say. At least, that’s how it usually turns out for me.” And that’s true for me too.

But, also like Fallows, it’s my experience that sometimes there are times when you regret not having said things that you initially talk yourself out of for fear of being or seeming too harsh. Which brings me to the topic at hand.

I have no way of knowing if this commenter is accurate suggesting there is widespread discussion already at NQC about the fauxasco being whipped up about the Dony and Reba Rambo McGuire appearance at the 100 Years of SG showcase later this week (if you’re just joining us, you can catch up on things here).

But let me just say that if there is actually any serious conversation going on at any level about the propriety of the McGuires’ appearing on the showcase, I call bullshit. I don’t find the debate about the McGuires’ brand of Christianity to be terribly enlightening, insightful, or original, but it’s fair game. The notion, however, that self-appointed keepers of the one true version of southern gospel religion (good luck figuring out what that is) get to hold some kind of referendum on whether or not  the McGuires should be excluded from NQC for their comparatively inclusive view of Christianity and sexuality is risible.

And no, this is not (just) about the gay thing. Just to take one of the more extreme examples from the other direction: I hated every nano-second that John Hagee and his musically maladroit family spent on the NQC mainstage and minced no words about saying so, or rejoicing when they stopped coming, not just because they couldn’t sing but because of his odious ideology masquerading as religion. But NQC has every right to invite him (and is justified in it, speaking purely from a bidness perspective, because we can rest assured that’s why he was there and that’s why he stopped being there) as they are for inviting the McGuires. And I’ll defend the NQC’s right to book Hagee just as strongly as I disapprove of him and his musical mediocrity.

My point is not that the McGuires are on par with Hagee (from what I can gather they’re “guilty” of nothing more than being insufficiently intolerant). Rather, it’s the willful hypocrisy involved in lavishing praise on a musical hack like Hagee because he has the “right” politics and theology, and then turning around and saying there’s no room at NQC for someone with impeccable southern gospel bonafides (whatever you think of her singing, which is in my experience neither as good as or as bad as most people say but is a far sight superior to the Hagees) because she dares to transgress the absolute prohibition against homosexuality in the fundamentalist world of sg.

Not everyone who appears on the NQC mainstage is a racist, an adulterer, a cheat, a flim-flam (wo)man, or otherwise personally and morally comprised, but enough have been and always will be to fill a generously proportioned rogue’s gallery out back of Freedom Hall in the horse stables, should someone choose to assemble such a group.

Personally, I go for the music, not the case studies in morality and right living. But you’d think that the Piety Police and others who expect sg artists to receive the Mickey Mouse Club seal of moral hygiene before letting them take the stage would focus on rooting out the kind of bad behavior that pretty much everyone can agree on before moving onto the far more controversial stuff like “is being nice to gay people such a bad thing that you should be disinvited from a NQC showcase?”

I don’t know the McGuires or much about their church, don’t know much about what transpired between Reba and her mother, and/but I assume that like the rest of us, they have their fair share of fallibility. But as far as I can tell, Reba Rambo McGuire’s only real sin in all this was to make a life for herself outside of gospel music and openly refuse to perpetuate the notion that she (and by extension, the Rambo name) is a bastion of orthodox fundamentalist piety. Put another way: when was the last time you saw or heard of someone non-marginal in the industry being publicly ostracized, cut off, or otherwise punished for either being gay or, as in this case, being insufficiently anti-gay?

That’s what I thought. Now, what does that tell you about the commitment to eradicating sodomy and the scourge of homushsexshulz in southern gospel?

To my mind, everybody would enjoy the music a lot more if we worried more about artists’ ability to sing their notes and play their instruments (or for that matter, play any instrument at all!) and a lot less about their sex lives, but if moral McCarthyism matters that much to you, casting the first stone starts at home. Meantime, please be quiet. The rest of us are trying to enjoy the show.

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Comments

  1. GospelWriter wrote:

    Wow, that is one of the most refreshing things I’ve ever read. Thank you for saying what a lot of people would like to say- that all the attempts to tear down Reba Rambo are BULLSHIT, and probably all coming from the same place.

    I totally agree with your post, and think that most people do as well. The Piety Police need to shut it and let everybody else enjoy the show.

  2. Benji wrote:

    I am new to this discussion. I’m with you on the Hagees but they probably have the same views as most at the NQC. After reading I checked out the situation. Strange choice for NQC but they have a right to book them. It’s nice to have discussion like these to voice your thoughts. I’d prefer a good Quartet though any day.

  3. Heeeeeere's Johnny! wrote:

    As if it weren’t already sufficiently stirred, this piece should certainly start the pot in a big swirl! I mean, really, what else would you expect from the SG audience? The Rambos are a significant part of SG history in a big way. In that sense, they belong there. I’m not sure I agree totally with their theology, but Jesus did say “love they neighbor.” I agree with you….let the music begin!

  4. Margaret wrote:

    GospelWriter are you one of those people? Why is it so passionate for you to make posts? I call BS. Maybe both the fors and against parties have campaigns going on. For goodness sake if you are going to make a point be subtle with your admiration to the other party. It seems comical to me. If pastors are involved it is probably the church members speaking out in collaboration. Who knows? Who cares?

  5. Wade wrote:

    Love it when you use…sexuality, odious, piety 2x, hygiene, moral McCarthyism and bullshit in the same post!!! :-)

    As the self appointed caller of BS before it is nice when you do it too!!!

    But one question you asked…

    “when was the last time you saw or heard of someone non-marginal in the industry being publicly ostracized, cut off, or otherwise punished for either being gay…”

    Wouldn’t Kirk Talley fit in that category???

    Plus you know that [Wade pretending he was edited] & [Wade pretending his was edited] are in constant fear of being outted!!

  6. Ginger wrote:

    I’d rather see Kirk at this concert than the ones that are causing the stir. He is actually an southern gospel artist.

  7. Michael wrote:

    Margaret wrote:

    “Who knows? Who cares?”

    Obviously you do, or you wouldn’t have made the post.

    Busted….Ouch!

  8. GospelWriter wrote:

    Margaret, sorry I touched I nerve with you, although not quite sure why…

    I am a columnist who filters through a variety of information daily and a lot of unessential blogging has occurred as of late which has nothing to do with music and everything to do with a few petty people trying to create a stir.

    The author of this blog is the first I’ve read with enough discernment to know good info from bad- he also has the guts to call bullshit.

    Wonder what your passion is about- mine is music- not the petty posts.

  9. Ginger wrote:

    To the post maker above: It’s sad to see christians act like children with taunting comments. It’s a shame. I felt that ouch and it heart my heart. Please don’t be abusive in these christian discussions. Where does that get us in this world today? Agree to disagree and be adult with hearty conversation. I don’t want to judge you only encourage you. Please accept this in christian love.

  10. Larry wrote:

    This article is timely and right on! Don’t know why people bother with all the smack talk about music artists… nobody is perfect and let he who is without sin cast the first stone

  11. Jeff T. wrote:

    Ginger,

    I can’t believe you made the above post after posting this:

    Ginger wrote:

    “I’d rather see Kirk at this concert than the ones that are causing the stir. He is actually an southern gospel artist.”

    If that is your idea of a “christian comment”, then you need to go back and read the author’s post regarding piety. Don’t be a hypocrite.

  12. Ginger wrote:

    I didn’t mean my comments to be pias and I said it was sent in Christian love.

    My comment about Kirk was my personal taste. My comments were made more in support of him. He is not being embraced because he was gay. Reba Rambo were supporting gay issues and are being invited. And he is southern gospel. Am I wrong? Shouldn’t he be treated the same. Especially since he is still actively involved in this beautiful music.

    I think your comments you made about me apply to you.

    Whew people are touchy in this discussion.

  13. Howard Frawley wrote:

    Crowd not too big today, but tomorrow should be better. Have not heard anything about this here, but maybe I am missing something? No bad talk about anyone or anygroup. People just want to hear good singing is all. Come!

  14. Barbie S. wrote:

    Ginger, I have to admit you gave me a chuckle after reading your first post here…

    Might be a good idea to check what you’ve already written before giving others a rap on the knuckles!

    Does anyone know if the Issacs are performing this year?

  15. DMP wrote:

    How about all of you just go listen to music, and stay out of the artist’s pant’s?

  16. Auke wrote:

    There’s nothing christian about these comments to begin with. I used to like going and reading this blog….but the gay issue/topic and sg music is becoming pretty old.
    I love the music and in depth info about it….but the National Enquirer approach to it is quite saddening.
    Like the Doobie Bros used to sing..listen to the music….ohhhh o ooooh listen to the music….all the time.

    Auke

  17. Jesus Fan wrote:

    Well since you (editor) brought it up again, here we go (again).

    Would anybody here so smugly endorsing the Rambos pay money to see a pedophile play a guitar at NQC?

    Oh why not? I thought their sexual lives didn’t matter??

    Does anybody remember that just 7 years ago, it was ILLEGAL to practice sodomy?

    EDITOR: Dear Jesus Fan: your comment was in the spam folder until just now; there was no liberal conspiracy afoot to silence you, despite your uncivil behavior, which you would have seen via email by now if you weren’t using a bogus address

  18. quartet-man wrote:

    #16 Auke, I agree, but once it is brought up, it is only fair to allow both sides to discuss it. Granted, “fair” isn’t law, but in the spirit of exchanging of information, the way it should be. Should the topic be brought up (singer is gay or outed, situations like the McQuires etc), short of saying “no discussion on that aspect of it, just discuss how it affects the industry” or links to past discussions so the ground isn’t covered again, the only other options I see are censorship of either the subject itself or as above, or no free exchange of ideas and opinions.

  19. quartet-man wrote:

    #16 Auke and my #17 (quartet-man)

    I don’t necessarily agree that “there’s nothing Christian about these comments” (depending on which comments are being referred to) and as far as music, I agree on one hand that the music is what most are here for. However, since so much of SG is seen as ministry, the expectations are changed bit. Even say in rap or country (let’s say) there is SOME expectation that the artists are living or have lived at least similar to what they sing about (or at least share values.) Now, granted, the stars don’t likely have fears of where the next meal is coming from or roam through the hood, but they might have come from that at one time. Granted, many country stars may not have cheated or been alcoholics, but they might have lived in it somehow or had friends who did.

    In Christian music, the message of course important and although none are perfect (save one here over 2000 years ago), the expectation is that they are believers (although imperfect). I know there have been some brought up in church and believe, but we later found out were not saved (at least with the heart knowledge), but although in the end basically the same without the blood of Christ, that feels different than someone who blatantly puts their feet down and do what they please all the while pretending to be something else (or not.)

  20. Michael wrote:

    Ginger, you are are part of the problem this article talks about.

    If you were really concerned about “christian” conversation you wouldn’t be so obvious and unchristian like by once again using this blog to state that the McGuires support being gay, which is unsubstantiated. I call another bullshit- you are busted too. We aren’t as dumb as you think we are, and you are Mother Teresa. If you want to talk about music, do it, but stop the other crap, and using this blog to do it.

  21. Dusty wrote:

    The comment about Kirk Talley is a good one. Why not let Kirk sing more at NQC? If NQC has invited Reba and Dony we may see more tolererance in the future. As a gay man myself I’m proud that the NQC is letting homosexual activists in our industry have a voice. The people I mentor for this industry are taught to show unwavering love. I think this is a healthy trend. We can all fellowship together.

  22. Howard Frawley wrote:

    Ginger hon, I hear your heart, but I’m here and nobody is even worried about this. From what I am reading here, you are a part of the problem the writer here is talking about. You are talking about the importance of the whole gay thing, and the article is about that it is $&@ and we should move on. Take this in love hon. People Are here having a good time and this is not even talked about.

    Thanks!

  23. Sara M. wrote:

    I am a member of The McGuires church in Nashville, and also a friend. They do not/we do not support the gay lifestyle. They are NOT gay activists as implied above. They love and welcome everyone, regardless of lifestyle, but teach the word of God. This has been misconstrued because they have openly reached out to gays in the past. They are just good people who welcome all of you. They have played significant roles in the history of southern gospel, and glad to participate in the NQC. The blog author is correct in his call regarding the whole issue- much ado about nothing really.

    Why they continue to be discussed is highly questionable to me, and seems to be driven by an unknown motive.

    At any rate, blessings to all.

  24. Jeff T. wrote:

    Dusty,

    You aren’t fooling anyone with your transparent comments which are once again doing exactly what the author writes about, and I doubt you are gay.

    Nobody is worried that the NQC is becoming gay, and you aren’t creating a whirlwind (as intended) with your fake comments.

  25. Auke wrote:

    Now when i said there’s nothing christian about this, i meant that these discussion leads to nothing but hateful and ‘i am wittier than thou’ remarks/wise cracks.
    We all know what the Bible says about homosexuality…..it is wrong.
    Being hateful/unloving to gay folk is wrong too.
    So why the hell do we feel the need of showcasing our own shortcomings every single time? Has this music become so shallow, has the SGM eroded so badly that we have to discuss sexual orientation/ and who and who doesn’t endorse it? I don’t care! And i really don’t wanna know! And the worst is that most of the people can’t defend themselves, and they might read or hear all this unsubstanciated bullshit!

    So don’t yáll just love Gospel music?

  26. DMP wrote:

    Seriously Jeff?! Did you just determine Dusty’s sexual orientation by a one paragraph post? How about you tell us his pants size, and eye color next. Seriously, this is so stupid. Making fun of gay people and telling them they are going to hell has about zero chance of getting them to come to church. We should treat it as we do every other sin. We tell them to come as they are, and let God work it out. I believe that is what the people in question were doing.

  27. Charlie G. wrote:

    The Rambos were one of my favorite southern gospel groups. Has anybody seen the old video of “New Shoes”? It’s a treat from the old days. I miss those harmonies… wonder what songs they will do and how the harmonies will work?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hp8SFq89AgE

  28. Howard Frawley wrote:

    Auke,

    Amen Brother to you! Let us all stop the talk and enjoy the convention!

    I tell you, there are some talented people here and come on and see the groups sing. By the way, there are also some good speaking too.

  29. Jake wrote:

    Interesting. Our moderator makes one reference to the dung of a male bovine, and suddenly it seems to be the most popular word in the English language!

    If we must stoop to discussing manure, or using it to emphasize our points (not that it hould be necessary), at least a little variety might be in order. After all, dogs, sheep, horses, goats all contribute their share of the stuff. I haven’t seen anyone trying to emphasize thier opinion by references to camel dung!

    (And before anyone shoots me, my tongue is firmly planted inside my cheek.)

  30. Jeff T. wrote:

    Thanks Charlie. Enjoyed that. I always thought Buck’s voice was the backbone of this group, but I agree that the harmonies were pure. I am guessing that the daughter will sing Dottie’s part? Here’s another good one:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H40zy2W21lo&feature=related

    I think the Downings are also singing, but not sure who will replace Paul- remember this one- another oldie:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbcNx_MhhS8

  31. HARRY wrote:

    LOOKS LIKE THE CHURCH PEOPLE ARE DOING SOME CAMPAIGN. I DON’T CARE WHAT ANY OF THEM BELIEVE. I COME TO HEAR GOOD SINGING. BUT I WON’T BE SUPPORTING ANYONE DOING SOMETHING THAT I FEEL IS WRONG.

  32. Barbie S. wrote:

    Harry, will you please read the article and take this elsewhere? It’s starting to get annoying and obvious.

    We don’t care anymore.

    Jake- thanks for the humor! :)

  33. HARRY wrote:

    NO ONE CAN REPLACE PAUL DOWNING

  34. Glenn wrote:

    Any way you can leave Jesus Fan in the spam folder?

  35. Paul J. wrote:

    My NQC experience is over. Heading home tomorrow. I did hear people discuss the McGuires and The Rambo appearance but I heard as equally as many people discuss that it was offensive to have Buck on stage. I tend to agree with that more so than what the McGuires preach. It does seem obvious that when someone posts opposition to the McGuires that someone is posting a rebuttle like clock work. They also must not visit the blog much or they would know we discuss news every convention.

  36. Janet B wrote:

    #34 (Glenn) -
    And ALL the people said….AMEN! And AMEN!

  37. Larry wrote:

    why do you have to SHOUT Harry? I personally love The Rambos… there’s nothing like family harmonies and I’m sure they won’t disappoint on Saturday. Although, I do have to admit, it won’t be the same without Dottie. Nonetheless, it’s going to be great and they deserve to be there considering their place in SG music history.

  38. Karen Walker wrote:

    Bullshit. Ha Ha. I always wanted to say that on a Christian/Southern Gospel/Gay/Liberal blog. Ha Ha. That was fun! Ok, Poodle, your turn!

  39. Barbie S. wrote:

    Paul,

    I realize we discuss the news at every convention, but you are continuing to do exactly what the author of this particular post is calling bullshit on.

    Are these people the only thing you felt the need to report on? I doubt seriously that they were the topic of discussion for everyone there.

    You are a part of the problem.

  40. ApostlePeter wrote:

    Since the main point of this thread is the diversity, or lack of diversity, in SG music I offer the following… Sheep Shit, Horse Shit, Bull Shit, Dog Shit, Duck Shit. Can we move on now that we are no longer catering to the majoritive Bull Shit and have paid tribute to all of the other fringe forms of scat?

  41. cdguy wrote:

    Harry — While agree with your #33 post (no one can replace Paul Downing), it will be interesting to see if anyone sings bass with the 3 surviving members.

    As for your #31 post, it doesn’t make sense. You contradicted yourself, saying you “don’t care what any of them believe”, but then stating you “won’t be supporting anyone doing something” you believe is wrong.

    And besides, if you’ve bought a ticket, you’re supporting whoever’s there. You can’t be selective with which artists receive a portion of your ticket price, and which won’t.

    And lastly, please stop shouting. Typing is all caps is rude and obnoxious. And difficult to read, too. That’s been the case as long as the internet has been around.

    Wise up!

  42. cynical one wrote:

    Folks are correct about the groups not being the same without members who have passed away. Whether it’s Dottie Rambo, Brock Speer, Paul Downing, James Blackwood, or anyone else. But that doesn’t negate the tribute that’s being paid to those folks/groups who are being honored. It’s not just about reunions. It’s also paying tribute to the heros of the genre.

  43. William wrote:

    It’s a odd that people are telling bloggers not to judge but judge others who post what they don’t feel is acceptable. I call poo poo.

  44. Jesus Fan wrote:

    Glenn, Janet, et. al

    Sin is sin. Whether it is sexual abuse or sexual misconduct, it is all sin. Sorry if you think the Bible should be spammed.

  45. DixieDawg wrote:

    Okay, I think we all understand the big controversy with the McGuire’s, and whether or not they endorse or support the homosexual community. Obviously, it’s a heated debate for all involved, gay or straight. If we read what the Apostle Paul said about the “effeminate” and sexual sins in general, we do sometimes wonder why many folks choose to sing Christian music over secular. Anyway, on to my soapbox.

    I would like to discuss another HUGE problem in the SG community that really hurts the integrity of the “bidness”. No one wants to tackle this subject on a broad scale, but in my opinion, it’s a major issue.

    A ministry, non-profit 501-C3 is supposed to be just that……a ministry (non-profit). The key words are NON-PROFIT.

    When Southern Gospel Groups go to churches, civic centers, stadiums, outdoor fairs and festivals….or anywhere, most of them are represented by a promoter or an agency. Usually, there is an “asking price” for a group to come to your venue and perform. It may be $2500, $3000, $5000 or more. Of course, the agency gets their cut.

    Once a “singing or preaching ministry” opts to “CHARGE” a price, instead of going on a love offering, they are NO LONGER a non-profit entity. They are a “for profit” business. This one issue, in my humble opinion, causes more problems with Southern Gospel integrity than most any issue. A ministry will go to minister or perform based upon a love offering - a business demands a certain price. This one issue has destroyed the credibility of many ministries, especially when some of them have the audacity to brag about their 100 acre farm/ranch.

    It is unfair for me or you to pay taxes on my business, store, service or job if SG singers can charge a price and not pay taxes. A plumber, electrician or a hairdresser must charge a certain price for their goods or services….AND they MUST pay taxes…or else. Then, a SG singer (and for most, it is religious entertainment) charges a price, and because they’re a 501-C3, pays not one dime of tax. Is that really fair?

    The only ones with any integrity is Bill Gaither or the ones who still go on a love-offering basis. Gaither at least understands that he has a business. He charges a ticket price, people buy the ticket, and life goes on. If you’re “Bill Bailey Concerts”, Bill Bailey doesn’t charge a ticket price, but he asks for a $10.00 donation at the door, and then he stands at the door like Guido the Bouncer…..while two ladies hover over trash cans as you produce your DONATION. Then, he takes an offering. I had rather pay a $20.00 ticket price and be done with it than go through this.

    One time, I was at a Bill Bailey Concert and my husband let me out at the curb while he parked the car. I paid the $30 for me, my husband and my mother. I told the ladies that he was parking the car and I described him. They asked me to stand there until he came in. So, this is a donation huh?

    Let’s get down to it……

    Elton John is gay. We all know he’s gay. He’s a great performer and he’s a very successful business. We all know he’s worth megabucks. However, at least he appears to be honest about it. He charges a ticket price, you buy the ticket, you’re entertained and then you go home. Everyone’s happy, especially Elton. But, you don’t sit through the pathetic poor-mouthing about the cost of his bus, the road expenses and the families that he supports.

    If we want to truly represent the love and the LIGHT of Jesus Christ, shouldn’t “we the Christians” at least get a little honesty in our business or ministry dealings?

  46. cynical one wrote:

    William - #43 - We’ve been doing that as long as this blog has existed. And in the real world for centuries before that. :-)

  47. William wrote:

    Yes very true cynical one. I was just talking to my wife and she made a good point. If you don’t like the McGuires as the Rambos you still can’t fault them for wanting some glory again and that it wouldn’t matter if anyone boycotted it as they pastor a church and are sure to bring an amen corner. So just sit back and enjoy the show and if you don’t like them being there complain to the office people so it doesn’t happen again. I have a feeling it won’t.

  48. Janet B wrote:

    #44 - Jesus Fan

    Nobody suggested spamming the Bible, sweetie - only you.

    And…never - ever -try to throw a Bible at me again. I can quote you under the table, little one.

  49. Kevin R wrote:

    Good point about the 501 C. I think huge churches should have to pay taxes too. If they are doing work in the community I think it should be extremely considered for tax breaks but just building and building is wrong. I also think churches and all 501 C should have to make salaries and expenses known. Baptist churches have business meetings a lot but a lot of indie churches pretty much ran and ruled by one person.

    Don’t know about Bill Bailey’s concerts. Been to some Gaither’s and yes he knows he is big business and not ministry. I like how NQC runs better they don’t hide they are a business but they welcome ministry. Sometimes they make controversial options like the one we are discussing with Reba Rambo but for the most part they get it right. The good thing is most of the showcase artists don’t get paid so you aren’t really endorsing a lifestyle choice. People do the showcases to be seen.

  50. quartet-man wrote:

    #45 I have no idea about the tax laws regarding that. I do know there are charities and ministries who have stores with set prices. I don’t know how to reconcile those, but you know how U.S. tax laws are. You get different answers from even different IRS employees. With that said, if they knowingly are breaking the laws. they are morally wrong.

  51. DixieDawg wrote:

    The situation with the 501-C3 non-profits can be very touchy, but in today’s Christian arena (Southern Gospel, Gospel Music in General, TV Ministries, TV Preachers, Televangelists, Mega-Churches, Mega Christian Celebrities)…….the non-profit status has gotten out of hand. Case in point - It was reported that one year Benny Hinn pulled in $250 million tax-free dollars. He lives in a $12 million mansion, drives a luxury car, wears designer clothes, etc. That is a business.

    With many of the mega-churches and top-tier Christian entertainers, they claim a non-profit status and literally live like Kings and Queens. They live in expensive mansions, drive very expensive cars, have expensive motor coaches and wear designer or tailor-made labels. Some have a private jet. All of this is tax-free because they have attached the label of ministry on it. I’m sorry, but this is not right.

    I know the sob stories of the SG singers and I have been to many, many SG concerts in churches, in civic centers and in coliseums. I know - I know, the bus is expensive, fuel is expensive, CD’s are expensive, have a lot of families to support, food and hotel costs, bus breaks down, bus maintenance, etc. etc.

    But then, they go on two or three cruises a year, tour all over the country, wear gorgeous clothes and live in very nice homes on a big piece of land. I guess this would be called “suffering for Jesus”????

    Having had a tour business, I have personal experience with booking some of the SG folks, and there is never a thank-you, never, only calls of desperation at the last minute or calls of desperation months in advance. They are some of the most needy people I have ever seen in my entire life. And then, the pictures show up on Facebook of them in the pool, at the park, at the hotel, at Disney World, in the big restaurant…….but, it’s a part of “MINISTRY”.

    Some of them will even use a difficult circumstance to capitalize upon another opportunity to pull in more tax-free money. If you and I have a bad circumstance, we pay the bill, after we pay our taxes. (I’m not trying to be mean-spirited, I’m just stating facts) If we cause the bad circumstance, we may also answer in a court of law or be stuck with a large debt. However, it seems that Christian celebrities have perks that the Christian common man will never have……..all because we don’t have a plumbing ministry, a hair stylist ministry, a farmer’s ministry or a school teaching ministry.

    I don’t begrudge anyone in the SG world the nice things of life, and I certainly don’t begrudge a blessing. I wish the best for people, but most of all, I wish for integrity, honesty and financial accountability in the Christian arena.

    TO THE Southern Gospel Singers: Remember……hard-working, tax-paying citizens come to your concerts, and it’s their love offerings, ticket “donations”, & CD purchases that keeps you on that nice bus and in that nice home. If you’re now asking a definite price to show up and sing, you are no longer a ministry - YOU ARE A BUSINESS.

    Charlie Daniels, Reba McEntire or Toby Keith can’t operate on a 501-C3 - they charge an admission price because they are country music entertainment. A Christian “ministry” is supposed to be different - if you charge a “set” price - then you become Christian entertainment - and you are a business, not a valid 501-C3.

  52. Barbie S. wrote:

    I think Dixie Dawg makes a good point
    with the 501 C-3 comments…

    Christianity has an unfortunate history of “love offering” takes and everything in between.

  53. Jeff T. wrote:

    Would you haters please stop dragging performers supporting a “lifestyle” back into the discussion?

    It’s really getting old, Kevin, and has nothing to do with DixieDawg’s post.

    You need to go back and read the original post.

  54. Charlie G. wrote:

    Folks, you may not realize it, but there are some voices on this blog who are trying to make the Rambos look bad because of a personal beef. It’s what the author wrote this article about, because he knew that it wasn’t making sense.

    William’s posts are pretty evident of this, as well as others who are just plain ugly and mean.

    You can keep it up, but it doesn’t work people who get what you are doing.

    This is what the author called $%^#! on.
    They are not here to honestly blog, just to tear down.

    It’s pretty sad, and I hope that you all will ignore them.

  55. Jeff T. wrote:

    William, you and your wife sound like obnoxious $$#@$holes.

    Instead of sitting around and judging whether or not someone is singing because they want glory, why don’t you go read the words to some of the music and find God for your judgemental selves.

    Good grief.

  56. Howard Frawley wrote:

    I don’t mind an offering, and I don’t mind a true church taking a write off. But don’t take money for other things and be a cheat.

  57. Denise Higgins wrote:

    I don’t know what the big fuss is all about. The showcases are such a small part of the convention. Not to many people even go in the afternoon compared to the evening performances. I would be more upset if they were on the mainstage as an attraction in the evening. Not because of their gay support but because of the fact that they aren’t southern gospel and the fact that they were disloyal to one of our industry’s matriarchs.

  58. Ted "Tex" Caruthers wrote:

    Cynical said:

    Folks are correct about the groups not being the same without members who have passed away. Whether it’s Dottie Rambo, Brock Speer, Paul Downing, James Blackwood, or anyone else. But that doesn’t negate the tribute that’s being paid to those folks/groups who are being honored. It’s not just about reunions. It’s also paying tribute to the heros of the genre.

    Amen! Our country has forgotten about honor. This is not about personal issues, or whatever your problem is. It’s about music. Southern gospel music and those who made it big. A lot of people will be honored and if you don’t like it, don’t go. But a lot of old-timers do like it, and we care.

  59. GC/EHSS/L5 fan wrote:

    I don’t think most SG groups claim non-profit status.

  60. Ted "Tex" Caruthers wrote:

    Denise Higgins, you need a little education in southern gospel music if you think the Rambos were not SG. And who made you the judge of who dishonored who?

    I agree. There are a lot of posters here who seem hell bent on hate.

  61. Denise Higgins wrote:

    Well Tex. The Rambos were big but not Dony McGuire and Chasity. Dottie, Reba, and Buck. And actually I don’t think they would have been anywhere without Dottie. She’s the only one the lasted. Reba and Dony were a part of the experimental music that sorta went away in the 80’s.

  62. Jesus Fan wrote:

    #48, bring it sister.

    Where does it say we should endorse sexual immorality? Verse and chapter please.

    LOVE is all over the Bible. ENDORSEMENT is nowhere.

    Like I said, bring it sister.

  63. Lee wrote:

    Denise,

    That’s absurd! You don’t even know Dottie’s granddaughter’s name, it’s DESTINY, so that tells me right there you have NO CLUE to what you are talking about.

  64. Ted "Tex" Caruthers wrote:

    Denise,

    You are wet behind the years. Pun intended. The Rambos were huge, and who cares if the daughter is singing one of the parts. It is honoring the original group-you are showing your ignorance.

  65. Jeff T. wrote:

    Denise,
    If you knew what you were talking about, you would know the actual names of the people before claiming to know about them.

    Hilarious.

  66. Denise Higgins wrote:

    Excuse me I hadn’t kept up with the Rambo geneology. The press release stated the grandchild’s name was Chasity. So complain to them not me. And Tex Dony McGuire was never a Rambo. The best I can tell the Rambos were a trio not a quartet. I didn’t know that my post would be turned inside and out. Sounds like some awfully touchy people. Are you living vicaciously through these people? As for having no clue what I’m talking about it’s common knowledge that Buck Rambo had many affairs and this caused his divorce with Dottie. He married the same year they divorced from what I was told. I would call that disloyal. Did anyone see Dottie’s bio on the Gospel Music Channel. Dottie shared the heartbreak of her divorce and loss of her family. I’m going to see if I stil have the broadcast and I will post it on youtube if I do.

  67. Pastor James wrote:

    As a pastor I try to look at both the good and bad of a situation. Times are changing and I agree that we don’t have to compromise the word of God for financial gain. Looking at the situation I’m sure the NQC had no way of knowing what the Mcguires taught or preached in their church. I certainly get flack over stands I have taken for the Word of God. I also understand that the audience would be upset. Many don’t want to contribute to something they think is fundamentally wrong. Let us reason together. If you don’t want to see the Mcguires I would go to a seperate showcase as the NQC has great showcases all day. If there isn’t a showcase you would like to attend then take the time to break bread with your family. The NQC fills many of these showcases each year with newer acts or lesser known acts that still can create a quality program at an affordable price. I’m honored that my city and state are the choice to house the NQC and while I haven’t patronized any showcases this year I’m looking forward to the Saturday night roster.

  68. quartet-man wrote:

    On regards to Hinn and others drawing huge salaries, I find myself with mixed emotions. Like baseball, secular music etc. the money is being made, and they deserve their portion of it even if the amounts are huge. Also, many of these huge ministries would take a lot to run similar to CEO’s in other companies. However, that is a separate issue than the 501C. I tend to agree that taxes should be paid. But, I presume they have to pay income tax don’t they? I am a church employee and I do. I presume the pastor does as well. If that is the case, the ministry (if it does ministry) could not pay taxes, but the huge payrolls would get taxed.

  69. Shirlene B. wrote:

    Just getting in on this, and after reading the author’s commentary, I am starting to understand what is going on.

    Oh dear! No sure who Pastor James is, but he certainly doesn’t seem to have a very high IQ.

    Don’t worry Pastor James, I’m sure the NQC doesn’t even know that you are here, and they aren’t concerned with your sermons regarding those performing!

  70. Southern Sounds wrote:

    The Isaacs sang Dottie Rambo’s Mama’s Teaching Angels How To Sing and blew it out of the park. I remember Dottie singing this song with them on a Gaither show. I don’t think anyone can top the Isaacs. They shot to Reba in the audience on the main screen while Sonya was singing. Bless her heart when she saw the camera was on she put a pretty obvious forced smile. I’m not a Reba hater but it was pretty funny. I would have probably done the same thing had I known a camera was on me.

  71. Janet B wrote:

    Jesus Fan -
    **sigh** Now you’re just boring me. To tears.
    Love may be all over the Bible, but that’s certainly not the vibe you’re sending out. You’re hateful, mean-spirited, judgmental, narrow-minded…should I go on? Pharisaic, dogmatic, legalistic…and far too full of yourself.

    This ends here. After all, you’d just trample all over my pearls.

    **shaking the dust off my feet and moving on…**

  72. Christine Macmahon wrote:

    The author is correct about the incredible amount of intended bullshit here and on other threads regarding Reba Rambo and the McGuires~ it’s blatantly obvious that someone has a personal issue with them and has enlisted people to say disparaging things about them. Southern Sounds random remark is a good example, along with “Pastor James” extremely transparent remarks.

    I agree with the author that these people do no seem to have committed any crime that rises to the level of such obvious BS.

    Reader beware of this silly campaign- I’ve never seen anything this ridiculous regarding performers at the NQC in the past.

  73. Sara M. wrote:

    Just to settle this issue, I just spoke to Reba after her performance with Buck and Destiny. She thought the convention was wonderful. She said that the crowd was really good for a Saturday afternoon, and that the entire reunion performance was so much fun. The audience gave Buck Rambo a standing ovation, and received the Rambo reunion overwhelmingly with applause. She also enjoyed all the other reunion performers, as did the crowd. It was good to see folks not seen in years, and it was a lot of fun getting to catch up. She also said that she and the family got to spend some private time with the Issacs last night, and that they performed some of her mom’s songs that meant a lot to her personally. The Issacs also honored their presence at the concert. They are working together on some upcoming performances…

    She felt nothing but love and kindness
    from everyone there, and the crowds were just as genuine and loving as ever. She was very excited about the talent on slate for tonight, and hoped that everyone would leave blessed and entertained.

  74. Southern Sounds wrote:

    You have these people on speed dial? Conducted a length interview afterward and then comment about it. I am sure all this is true but sounds like you just came on here as a cheerleader. I didn’t see what was wrong the pastor’s post. Most christ like thing I have read.

  75. Louise wrote:

    The author of the blog didnt say that the posts about The McGuires was Bull Shit. From what I read he said that they were fair game. He said it ws Bull Shit that people should object to them being gay for treating they gays well. Now how long will it be before I’m called an anti Reba Rambo plant. Puhleeeze!

  76. Southern Sounds wrote:

    Tag you’re it!

  77. Ted "Tex" Caruthers wrote:

    Not only will I call you a plant (who cares anymore, nobody did at the convention), I will call you “eegnernt” because you can’t put a sentence together.

    But thanks for the laugh all the same, and have a great day!

  78. Shirlene B. wrote:

    Don’t you all think it’s probably time to close this discussion and move on to something else? It’s over and done, and none of the continued talking is doing any good. It just makes those who continue to do so look petty and small.

    Let us please find something good to talk about…

    Blessings to all.

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