Open thread

For something a little different, let’s try a themed open thread. This one: awards, contests, and appearances. Here we go.

  • The NQC lineup for the mainstage and showcases is out. The  most talked about issue: Ed O’Neal’s Dixie Melody Boys being left on the mainstage in this their 50th Anniversary year. David Bruce Murray has given this issue of mainstage vs showcase appearances a lot more thought in general than I have, and recommend his reflections on the situation. But on the DMB issue particularly, I would offer two thoughts. One: it’s unarguably tacky and gratuitous for NQC, which has conditioned audiences to expect Dixie Melody Boys on the mainstage, to cut the DMB in what should be a year of celebration for them. But the real question isn’t so much why aren’t the DMB on this year as it is why weren’t they cut long ago. For at least the last ten years, the DMB have shown up on stage with a moribund set of dog-eared tunes sung badly with tracks that sounded like they were recorded on the audio equivalent of a mimeograph machine. This kind of subpar quality is no obstacle to NQC’s choice for mainstage appearances, of course, but it’s hard to feel too bad for folks who get cut when by all appearances they relied mainly on goodwill and deference to their own longevity to secure their spots at NQC, rather than earning a following with top-notch music that would  have made cutting them more difficult. Which is a corollary to my second point: perhaps we should rethink the cult of Ed O’Neal University, the nickname O’Neal and the DMB have acquired because so many of his singers leave so often to sing with better and better known outfits. Because, to quote myself,  “is this really a sign that a quartet owner is doing something right?” O’Neal seems like a nice guy with a fine sense of humor and an obvious dedication to gospel music, but all these EOU graduates wanted to work for someone else for a reason.
  • From the “and how is this different from every other year,” the southern gospel struck out at the Grammys for the most part.
  • The SN Fan Awards will be back at Dollywood for a second year since departing NQC. In a long open letter to fans on the issue, the SN makes a thou protesteth too much an heroic attempt to explain why this move really is “crucial to the longevity of southern gospel music.” And this is probably true, if for you the future of southern gospel is closely linked to the Singing News. Meanwhile, NQC has allegedly “eagerly endorsed” a fan awards showcase at the convention organized around fan-award nominees, and fans will have the chance to vote in some kind of straw poll as well. Compared to the year after the big break, I guess this is progress that NQC and SN can at least cooperate with another. David Bruce Murray compares this new straw-poll-with-showcase arrangement at NQC to the Golden Globes before the Oscars. To my mind, though, there’s more of a Cold War detente feeling to all this.
  • As you have doubtless seen by now, you can vote for your favorite SN cover. Kyle has rounded up a collection of rugtastic before and after hairpiece covers. Honestly, though, I find that cover with Brian Free as androgynous he-child stranger than all the bad hair pieces atop so much insecure masculine vanity.
  • Dove Award nominees are out. Burke has a round up of sg-related nominations.
  • Finally, a bonus clip, via southerngospelcritique, which, in keeping with our theme, I hereby nominate for the Best Worst Pornstache in Southern Gospel Award. There are several to choose from, but right now I’m leaning toward Scott Fowler’s. Lumberghs of the world unite.

You have the floor.

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  1. irishlad wrote:

    Yes indeedy, with a ‘tache to rival John Holmes I think that George Younce’s remark ‘he’s a pretty little thing ain’t he?’ was slightly off mark.

  2. Ruth Meyers wrote:

    I loved your comments about NQC and DMB. I agree. If the NQC wants to clean up the stage and move quality to the forefront, why didn’t they do this years ago? But I’ve heard horrible things about the so-called “Ed O’Neil University,” including working his employees to death while paying them nothing, making them come to the bus on Wednesday and not letting them shower until they get home on Monday, and smoking in the front lounge to name a few. On top of that (as you mentioned) recording horrible CDs and not even paying the songwriters on the sales. And he’s considered a Southern Gospel hero? I have two words… GOOD RIDDANCE.

  3. Ruth Meyers wrote:

    And speaking of the Dove Awards, this was said on Daniel Mount’s blog concerning the Female Vocalist of the Year nomination for Janet Paschal.

    Janet Paschal picked up a surprising nomination here—surprising since it has been a number of years since she’s released a mainline project, and since she’s had less recent exposure at radio and major venues than in the past. It’s virtually guaranteed that a non-Southern Gospel performer will win this category.

    I couldn’t disagree more. Although I don’t think that Daniel is dissing Janet, I just think his facts are misleading. As I recall last year I saw an ad that congratulated her for her Number 1 single for Singing News. Not many women can say they’ve had a Singing New hit. And I’m always seeing her in that chart. I never used to see her there at all. And it hasn’t been a number of years since she had a “mainline release”. For the past 2 years, Janet has received several Dove nominations including her Treasure release and her hymns CD.

  4. Brent Roe wrote:

    I don’t care to debate the DMB turndown
    on the Mainstage, but it is just a little tacky that the board has done Ed that little injustice as well as the way they took the Lesters off even though they used Brian as a cohost the past few years. I don’t know what other groups have had the hatchet applied. But I suppose it will all be okay as long as America’s Favorite Family group gets
    their four spots, and the other board member’s groups get their allotted number of times to appear. Or am I being a snot for being that cynical about
    it? I guess I will have to spend my travel budget at Meramec of Brumley and see a real class operation.

  5. Johnny wrote:

    #4 Brent - thanks for saving me the typing. You are 100% right. I’ll see you at Meramec. Did you know Clarke Beasly didn’t even have the guts or courtesy to contact Brian…he sent him a stinking email.

    Honestly, groups like The Lesters will be better off not having association with these entertainers. For those of us who don’t care about Kim Hoppers hair, or cleavage, let’s take a bus trip to Meramec, or anywhere, except NQC.

    Also agree with #3 - GO JANET - I just hope Gaither and NQC hasn’t ruined her too. She’s awesome!

  6. Irishlad wrote:

    #5….I care very much about Kim Hopper’s cleavage.

  7. Butch wrote:

    Laddy, I would hate to see what goes through your filthy mind sometimes. Keep your lustful thoughts to yourself.

  8. CVH wrote:


    Actually, it was kind of a kick to go back and look at all the old SN covers and reminisce about the groups and the music of those eras. But it also revealed a horrific lack of concern for the way the publication was presented. Not that the average SG fan then cared about the ‘look’ or graphic design of the package; a lot of record covers from those years were lousy too.

    Here are a few I found particularly funny, odd or troublesome:

    The 9/84 and 11/86 covers featuring The Kingsmen is the same photo. In two years, there wasn’t another shot available to use?

    What a mixed memory - the August ‘86 cover (from the photo session for the record they released that year) of Buck and Dottie Rambo. So sad.

    The “Who Gives A Damn” Award goes to the designer of the May ‘86 cover that slaps graphics all over Squire Parson’s face. Who did he piss off?

    December ‘85 - not sure what the context of the issue was but why were Steve Green and Scott Wesley Brown on the cover?

    January, 1992 - gotta love the REALLY BIG HAIR on The Freemans.

    May of ‘93, not the most flattering picture of GV; Gerald looks like Eddie Haskell smirking at Mrs. Cleaver. “Oh no, Mrs. Cleaver, I’m sure Theodore has learned how to read shaped notes.”

    9/94 - you know those pictures you took of your friends in college and there was one guy who always looked stoned? Hi, Ernie…

    March of ‘97 - Bill Gaither - oh God, the hair.

    November, 2001 - well-composed, clean, white background, and an almost Norman Rockwell tone to the shot.

    May ‘05 - ah yes, this is what we love about Southern Gospel; why it’s gaining more credibility in the world of music; why more and more young people are saying they want to grow up and become members of a male quartet; why chicks really dig SG musicians: six white guys in matching suits, shirts, ties and handkerchiefs staring skyward in a state of joy and near-ecstasy, and don’t forget the obligatory hand on the shoulder, just to show that they’re a regular bunch of guys. Please…the ’70s called…they want their suits back.

    August ‘05 - there are a lot of bad covers through the years - terrible photos, graphics, layout, etc. But this illustration of J.G. Whitfield is just plain creepy. Does anyone else see the resemblence to Snidely Whiplash?

    April of 2006 was when SN apparently said goodbye to their accountant’s nephew (who was pursuing one of those online art degrees from the University of Hicksville) and hired a professional designer. The cover risked being competitive with other magazines on the rack; it actually began to have a ‘look’. Simple, clean, with more sense of composition and style. Of course that followed Salem’s acquisition of SN by about six months which may have had something to do with it. The Crabb Family never looked so good (in black and white) with simple graphics. This was the start of a truly professional look - the use of better photos, color coordination with graphics, infinity backgrounds, opacity - something that is actually good art. How refreshing.

    May of ‘09 - a la Forbes or Business Week, the stylized ‘40 Years’ cover was outstanding. And thank God they resisted the urge to slap on a picture of Les Beasley or McCray Dove for no meaningful reason.

    Personally, I’m not crazy about the newest ‘new’ look which debuted in Jan. 2010. But what difference does it make? The people who are going to buy it will buy it no matter what the cover looks like. I’d just like to know if SN ever does a swimsuit issue, who’d be on the cover? Discuss…

  9. DRL wrote:

    #2 - Working to death while being paid nothing, not showering for 5 days, smoking in the lounge … throw in a couple of drunken babes and, yep … you’ve pretty much summed up University life.

    Seriously though, do you really think Rodney Griffen would have ever gotten hired by Greater Vision to replace Mark Trammel if he hadn’t gotten some on-the-job training beforehand? Do you think the Dove Bros would have been nearly so successful out of the chute if McRae hadn’t learned the ropes from his years with Ed? Who knows, maybe with some decent material and some marketing a quartet of Ed, McRae, Rodney and Harold Reed could have made it to the top. But I think it’s more likely that Ed realizes after all the years he’s put in, he’d go broke trying to make it there, and is happy to see the men he’s trained move on to greener pastures. Shoot, even the groups at the top have their share of personnel changes.
    I think the NQC did the right thing by pulling DMB off center stage. They’re no longer a major force in the biz and none of his current students seem like they’re ever going to graduate from University.

  10. Kyle wrote:

    Wow….John Holmes AND cleavage, all on a SG blog, and all in one thread!! My, the jokes that could spawn from this….

  11. Nate Ellis wrote:

    With rare exceptions almost all southern “gospel” music today is an abomination to God. It is completely unbiblical for groups to be out of their churches almost every sunday of the year performing in other churches. Many bands and groups are rife with adultery, fornication, and sodomy, (homosexuality). THis is a result of the great deception in thousands of churches where people living in ungodly lifestyles think they are saved. I Corinthians 6:9-10. These bands and groups almost all play and sing music that is overpowered by the hellish, sensual beat of rock and roll music. Most secular rock and roll bands admit that rock and roll is and always has been the music of sexual intercourse (outside of marriage) The church is so far in apostacy that thousands will come to a meeting if singers are there, but few come to hear preaching where there is no professional singing. The majority of “gospel” and “Christian” music singers live lavish lifestyles, all made off 20 dollar cds and expensive tickets. I dont have to travel around the country to get an emotional high by listening and watching immoral people sway and dance around a stage. Thank God for the local church, and the unpaid singers in that church who minister through music while being faithful to their church week after week. These are the last days, days filled with apostacy, reprobation, error, and deception. Southern “gospel” music and “Christian” contemporary music is the music of this wicked hour. God hates it.

    I Corinthians 2:15

  12. greenesfan wrote:

    TaRanda Greene should be on mainstage!!

  13. LaRolf McCoin wrote:

    #10, Nate, I’m curious. From where did you get this “enlightenment”? And since you seem enlightened, please tell us what kind of music, you think, pleases God? In my Bible I find that we can praise the Lord wirh cornets, cymbals, dulcimers, flutes, harps, organ, pipes, sackbuts, tabrets, timbrels. trumpets, viols, full orchestras, and vocals. GOD APPARENTLY LOVES MUSIC.

  14. Aachen1720 wrote:

    #10 - That’s a bunch of hooey. Narrow opinions like these are driving people away from church. We don’t need another Inquisition or Salem Witch Trial.

  15. Spiritual wrote:

    I am a singer in Gospel music, and I don’t know which genre you may be speaking of when it comes to lavish lifestyles, but I am personal friends with most all of my piers, and with RARE exception, 90% of the industry does NOT have the finer things. We live in normal homes (with morgages), drive normal cars, and have to work to pay the bills just as everyone else.
    When you toss a scripture out there judging an industry, keep in mind: I am not subject to your judgement since I am also spiritual.
    There may be some bad eggs in the business, but I think you should know more about these groups before you come to a final decision. There are plenty of good God fearing men and women who are on the roads doing what God has called them to do. Until you know their hearts to know if you can judge them or not. These scriptures work both ways you know!

  16. Rick in southGeorgia wrote:

    Re#10- If you feel this strongly about smg, why are you even visiting this forum?

  17. eddie crook wrote:

    Hoppers are nominated in “country” category?
    What defines a country or SG artist and/or style of music?
    Again, do many care..

  18. DRL wrote:

    #11 — I would hope NQC would have the class to honor the Greenes in some way and allow the fans to express their love for Tony & Taranda. Not sure Taranda’s worthy of a solo slot, but there should be something, possibly during a Hopper’s set???

    #12-15 — don’t feed the trolls!

  19. SteveSmith wrote:

    Not sure if Taranda is worthy of a solo set? Have you not heard her sing? If she is good enough to front the Brooklyn Tabernacle Chior, I would say she could handle a solo set on the main stage of the NQC. She is starting a solo ministry, after all.

  20. Brent Roe wrote:

    #10, I don’t know who you talk with.are friends with, or stalk, but I’d like to set you straight on some people. The brush you are using is just a little wide, there,boy, to be painting all the folks I know in s.g. There are a good number of folks who may not be in their home church every Sunday am, pm, and Wednesday pm.but they are in a church some where, unless theres a real good reason not. Besides, being in a church every Sunday am is about as likely to define your faith as standing in a garage is,to make you a car. Regardless, Many groups are in their home churches a lot, and their elders are quite likely to be blessing their efforts and laying hands on them as an outreach ministry.
    As to your unkind characterization of high on the hog living of groups, my wife and I make it a point to take groups that we sponsor in our church home oudt to eat one or two meals, because we know what stocks the frig or cooler
    in the bus or van, baloney and chips.Finally, I thought the Jimmy Swaggart school of s. g. criticism had been let out. But you go draggin’ it back out. You wouldn’t know good gospel or bad rock’n'roll if it hit you with a tambourine or a B3 organ. Its just like a young lady I talked with, who just lambasted kids with tattoos. Now, I am not a big fan. but i told her this. Its just real possible that the woman at the well had more tattoos than a model in Inked
    magazine. Yet the good Lord forgave her
    of her adulteries and told her to g.a.s.n.m.Maybe you oughta follow His example

  21. lee65 wrote:

    I would love to hear Taranda do a solo set at NQC be it showcase or mainstage . Hope it’s considered . The Greenes had one of the strongest sets, if not the strongest set at NQC last year . She’s a top-teir vocalist.

  22. Soli Deo Gloria wrote:

    No. 16: are you really Eddie Crook? If you are, you have very few people to blame other than yourself for what southern gospel music has become, as you defined a “sg artist” as anyone who would fork over enough cash to make a record regardless of ability.

  23. Andrew S. wrote:

    In honoring the Greenes, I would like to see them honor the group with some portion of a showcase with Kim, Tim, Amy, Milena, TaRanda, Brad, Jeff, and John singing the various songs the Greenes made popular over the years. It wouldn’t be hard to accomplish, and it would be more of a reunion even though the constant, longest-lasting member is no longer with us.

  24. AAron wrote:

    The NQC is a bunch of users. Guess the ones that were kicked off the main stage have not done enough favors for the board members in the last year.

  25. Ode wrote:

    OOO, thats a piece of fun i needed on monday morning :))
    #10 is a parody on crazy fundamentalists, not the real stuff.
    I just read something similar on a Christian satire site,also ends with Yes, I am Judging, only livelier.But he has hilarious moments too - “SG is the music of sexual intercourse and SG singers are immoral people that sway and dance around he stage” :)hee-he-hee………..

    Nate, thanks. Great pointing out the obsession of those fundie assholes with sexual intercourse and anal sex in particular.
    you can add “my wife dared to attend an ungodly SG concert, I’ll punish her with my rod tonight, as Bible teaches!”, “SG promotes using tampons - satan little cotton fingers -even by virgins! “My group Nate’s Hackers for Jesus crashed 100 pornsites last week”, comment on “a certain SG singer that dares to show his honeybuns in jeans,instead of godly suits, promoting lusting thoughts” and promote your services in offering the best marital and sexual advice, godly private tutoring included to young ladies ( send applications! bodyshots required) and such.

    Sickly ungodliness of those idiot fundamentalists deserve to be made active fun of, good attempt, Nate! Keep laughing at em, bro!

  26. Magnolia wrote:

    Well, I’m going to give another point of view on the NQC and Ed O’Neal debate, to include The Lesters being left off of the program. I’ve been reading on the Singing News forum, and one of the excuses for “leaving groups off of the program” seems to be due to economic reasons or a necessity to lower the NQC budget. Okay, if that is the case, then I have a few questions because the recession didn’t start this year.

    1. If the NQC is having economic issues, why would they pay big DOLLARS to have Sarah Palin guest star at the convention last year? From what I have read, she can command up to $100,000 for just one appearance. This is the “QUARTET” (key word is QUARTET) convention. People come to hear what? That would be quartet singing.

    2. Why would the NQC be willing to bring “politics” into the arena of Gospel music? It doesn’t matter if Palin was Republican, Democrat, Libertarian, Independent, etc., politics should NOT be brought into a SG quartet convention. Personally, I found that move to be very distasteful and downright tacky. This was NOT the Republican National Convention.

    3. Wouldn’t it be wiser for the NQC to put their money behind the groups instead of a political candidate? After all, it’s the SG groups who bring in the crowds year after year.

    4. Is the NQC attempting to go in the same direction as many mega-churches, throwing their hat into the political arena in hopes of a little more power, recognition and MONEY? I assume the NQC is attempting to follow in the footsteps of the Fundamentalists???

    On a side note, had I been a member of a SG group last year, I would have boycotted the NQC over the Palin guest appearance. The fact that the NQC wasted money on someone who has made NOT ONE contribution to SG music was inexcusable. They would have been smarter to have invited a Grand Ole Opry star than to have invited Palin. At least a country music star would have had an understanding of SG music.

    I think the NQC Board of Directors needs someone to monitor their actions.

  27. accent wrote:

    #23. The ones kicked off the main stage are the ones that probably don’t pull enough people to pay for their bread. The biggest favor to the promoters of NQC (board members) is to be able to put people in the seats. The ones I’ve seen ‘kicked off’ are not putting people in the seats or recording any new material. A lot of them you don’t even know from one day til the next who will be singing with them.

  28. cynical one wrote:

    #10 — I don’t know who’s been charging $20 for cd’s, or who’s selling expensive tickets, but I haven’t seen it. $16.98 was the highest retail prices I ever saw, but most these days are between $9.99 & $13.99. Check your local Christian retailer.

    And if you’ve been reading this blog long, you’ll see that very few concert goers pay over $20. for an sg ticket. Usually around $10-15.

    And the vast majority sg singers are paying their own way, not making a dime from their work. Those that are able to support their families purely from thier sg music are in the minority.

    And #7 - Butch, what’s wrong with admiring God’s (or the plastic surgeon’s) handiwork? Laddy didn’t say he was lusting. lol

  29. Olan Witt wrote:

    #2 I don’t know where your “information” comes from. I worked for Ed O’Neil back in the mid eighties. (back in the Christian Country days) Ed was always great to work for, everyone knew what his job was and what was expected of them. As long as you did your job and stayed out of trouble then Ed was a teddy bear! If you stepped out of line he was swift to sit you down and explain how things were going to be, just like a good father would. One year Ed sold his Town Car so he could give us a Christmas bonus.
    Has Ed had some personel changes through the years? Yes! Is the GM Industry better off because of EOU? YES!!!!
    As a businessman today, I am thankful to have attended EOU and I’m proud to call Ed O’Neil my friend!

    #10 WOW

    #21 WOW

  30. wanderer wrote:

    I don’t know Ed. I’ve met him once or twice after concerts. Seemed nice enough. But I do know a promoter who promoted the DMB a lot back in the 70’s and 80’s…some in the 90’s. He always spoke well of Ed.
    Out of all the mudslinging, my guess is the not paying well statement is probably true. My guess is there isn’t a lot left at the end of the day to pay.
    But the showering part? C’mon, anybody would want their people to look and smell as good as possible in front of an audience.

  31. Olan Witt wrote:

    #2 & #29 Can’t say I ever had to go without showering when I worked for Ed. We always had a hotel room for showers or used the one at the clubhouse if we played golf that day.

  32. Irishlad wrote:

    #24 Funny as ever Ode, i hope your right about Nate,otherwise i wouldn’t fancy my chances in a dark alley with him,fithy mouth notwithstanding. ;)

  33. non obama supporter wrote:

    well well Lets just all jump on the board of NQC thats where you will find all your answers if you list the board of Nqc thats who will appear on the main stage amd don’t forget if your really nice to the board of NQC you just might get to be on the main stage… This is true just look it up and you will see its just that way…so all you nobody you might try for a showcase spot if the NQC board likes you…..

  34. onasidenote wrote:

    #26, Magnolia. The event name “National Quartet Convention” keeps the same name as it did when it started for name recognition. It would be dumb for them to change it today even though it’s not all quartets. I say that to say this in reference to your point… You say the key word is Quartet, and Quartet singing is what people come to hear. That statement right there knocks the Lesters off of the main stage. Does it not?
    Again, I know there are solos, trios, etc. on there. I just had to point out that your logic in that one specific point was wrong.

    I attend concerts to hear those groups whose songs I currently hear and like on the radio (actually on XM), and those who are on the concerts that come to my area. For the most part, this year at NQC, the mainstage consists of those people who I would pay to see in a regular concert.

    While they may be great people, I really don’t understand giving spots to the Pfeifers, Tribute, Voices of Lee, Browns, Kings Heralds, Crist Family. May all be great singers, but with the exception of these 6 acts being on the program, I think the NQC board has hit a homerun!

    What current hits are we going to miss by not having DMB or Lesters? Besides the 6 groups above, the rest of the artists on the schedule are booked on nearly all of the major concerts across the country and are the ‘big names’ currently in the industry.

  35. irishlad wrote:

    #8 CVH, To me The Imperials(even in their Impact/Vista days) always had the coolest of album sleeves. Did they spend a little bit more out of their budget than other groups in the stable? And if so who made the conscious decision ? Their circa 71 album ‘I Believe ‘ is a good example of a cover well ahead of it’s time, the one where they’re standing against an old shed Armond on a wall,nothing pretentious, all very natural. If one looks closely, the reflection in the water isn’t one at all. To a then 12 yr old that was very clever indeed.

  36. quartet-man wrote:

    #35 The Oak Ridge Boys had a few cool covers too. I liked the Street Gospel one and later Sky High. Those are the first two that come to mind.

  37. Magnolia wrote:

    To #34: I understand the point that quartets are not the only performers on the stage - I was mainly trying to point out that the convention is about singing, and not politics (I should have stated that clearly). It just seems that if there are budget problems with the convention, the last thing they would have done is invite a political candidate. Isn’t it interesting how money always shows up in organizations to do what they WANT to do, not what is right?

  38. Rev. Al wrote:

    Some of the preachers that have been featured at the NQC have been as political as Sarah Palin - such as Jerry Falwell and others. They are not main stagers so what’s the big deal?

  39. cdguy wrote:

    #35 Irishlad– I think you’re referring to the one they now call “The Lost Album”, with Jim Murray, Russ Taff, Dave Will, and Armond Morales. See

    I think, because of my recollection of personel changes, and some other quick research I did, that was probably more like 1975 - 1977. That cd appears to have been released through Word, and in 1971, they were still on Impact (Benson).

    And yes, Benson would have spent more money on the Imperials’ covers, since they sold more records than any other sg artist of the day.

    And speaking of the old Benson company, one of their salesmen told me the 2 worst days of his life were the day they announced the Imperials were leaving to go to Word, and the day the Gaither Trio announced the same thing.

    But when The Rambos left Benson to record for Light, there was rejoicing on both coasts. lol

  40. onasidenote wrote:

    #33…the NQC board consists of 7 members, only 3 of those members have groups, they are Hoppers, Greater Vision, and Kingdom Heirs. Even if these 3 guys were not on the board, these 3 groups would be on the NQC. So to say get on the board and be on NQC is dumb to me. Dennis Powers is an owner of NQC and he owns/sings with the Skyline Boys, he’s not on the main stage, but there are groups with no bigger name that are on the mainstage. Again, that goes against your buy in get featured theory.

    #37 & 38, I think when they mean budget problems, it ‘probably’ doesn’t mean that the owners are going broke, but that they prefer to cut back spending on groups who don’t draw, and spend on things/groups that might. Whether or not you like Sarah Palin, and even if she has no business being at NQC..put all of that aside. Who do you think will bring more people Sarah Palin or Ed O’Neal? Try looking at it like that. I know it is different having preachers than politicians, but they bring in preachers with no real connection to our industry, and I’m sure they aren’t cheap.

  41. accent wrote:

    Everybody speculates how much Sarah Palin got paid to speak at NQC. Did you ever think that she might have been under the same type contract as some of the others (Gaither/EHSS) were. She might not been paid a flat fee but would have gotten a percentage of the showcase tickets. If it was as politicial as people say it was she might have come for the political exposure and not charged anything. KNOW THE FACTS before you report them.

  42. The Art Coach wrote:

    Can I just say: I can’t stand to watch videos where the singers turn their back to the crowd and take a big gulp from their bottle of AquaFina while the intro to the song is playing.

  43. CVH wrote:

    irishlad - boy, you’re pushing my memory a bit! I agree that the Imps had some of the classiest covers on the Benson labels, especially from ‘71 (Time To Get It Together) to their last Benson product (Just Because - ‘76). Bob McConnell did most of the art direction in that period and Bill Grine was their main photographer. (Interesting side note: Bill’s last name is actually German - Grein - but he changed it at some point early in his career. His wife Janny was well-known as a songwriter, having composed, among others, the classic “More Than Conquerors”.)

    Vista was designed as a budget label for Benson artists to release songs from older albums and perhaps the occasional unreleased cut. They weren’t re-releases of old product; songs were lifted from different masters (poorly at that) and discount priced. If you look at the Vista product, many of the front and back shots were outtakes from photo shoots used for the mainstream HeartWarming or Impact releases. Actually the LP you’re referring to was called “Believe It”; another Imps Vista release was “A Thing Called Love”. You’re right - on “Believe It”, the ‘reflection’ in the water is actually a slightly different shot than the one of them standing against the barn. And that was way before Photoshop!

    cdguy, the ‘Lost Album’ was the first project they recorded when they signed with Word but none of the execs were happy with it so they canned it and the band went back in the studio in early ‘77 and cut what became “Sail On” (which was a much more commercial album anyway).

    And amen on the Rambos going to Light/Lexicon. But trust me - it was no picnic for anyone there working with them either.

  44. AAron wrote:

    #27…no, don`t think it`s filling the seats…nice try, BOARD MEMBER!!

  45. Irishlad wrote:

    #43 Spot on CVH the album was Vista R1225 and it was 1970.
    #36 Q-man i was almost going to mention Street Gospel, i still have the LP(somewhere) the guys walking down the street with Richard looking cool and William G wearing a fir coat?…it’s been awhile,remind me.

  46. Irishlad wrote:

    ..also i believe that Street Gospel picked up the 1972 Dove for best cover photo by the afor mentioned Bill Grine.

  47. Magnolia wrote:

    Just for the record, I did not say that Sarah Palin DID receive a certain amount. I said that I had read that she can command as much as $100,000 (and that’s per appearance). Hopefully, the NQC negotiated a better deal. I would be very shocked and very surprised if she were not paid. After all, this is how she is making her living now. Maybe she can get a gig on “Dancing With the Stars”. LOL

    When Gaither has speakers and/or preachers at some of his events, such as the Gatlinburg Family Fest, they deliver a Christian message, usually through comedy, testimony or motivational-style delivery. It is NOT political, but it is inspirational and uplifting. I’m definitely not against a speaker at a “singing event”; however, I don’t think politics should be introduced.

  48. Irishlad wrote:

    Apropos of album covers: On Burke’s Brainwork’s fine site he covers a series he calls Forgotten Gems and Hidden Gems now the really good part about these is Burke not only gives a decent review of each song but also produces a good image of the said album cover and that’s where i found the only pic(that i could find) of Street Gospel on the web.And to answer my own WG wasn’t wearing a fur coat on that particular album :)

  49. Magnolia wrote:

    If the NQC wants to attract a bigger crowd, they might want to consider this man:


    I’ve seen him in a campmeeting and the power of God visited the service. The Gospel Music industry and the churches in general need a revival, not a shoulder-rubbing with politics. The Gospel is not about the “old coat”, it’s about the “new coat”.

  50. Magnolia wrote:

    Here’s the whole link:

  51. cdguy wrote:

    CVH — I know it was no picnic @ Light/Lexicon. I was there, and I knew the personalities involved, both the artist(s) and the label folks. Plus, the artists’ audience was not the same as that label’s audience. I think everyone was hoping to stretch those audiences, but I don’t think it happened. Don’t know for certain, as I was caught in a lay off, soon after that.

  52. cynical one wrote:

    Magnolia — Although I enjoyed his singing on this clip, I’m not sure he would fill any more seats. Do you really think he’s known widely enough? Is there anything unique about his singing, song selection, or stage performance?

  53. Magnolia wrote:

    To #52: Love your name - that’s a hoot! To answer your question, Tommy Bates is very different “from all the rest”, especially in concert. I’ve seen him several times and in different venues. Rev. Bates brings a LOT of energy and soul to his singing. He was born and raised in the hills of Kentucky, and that is very evident. Nothing sounds contrived or like karaoke.

    In a way, his vocal style sometimes reminds me of the vocal stylings of Patty Loveless (she’s from Kentucky too). On top of all of this, this man is really anointed to sing. His capacity with singing and piano is unlike anyone in Gospel music today. His sincerity is greater than his capacity for commercialism. When he sings a few bluegrass songs, the soulfulness in his performance is unparalleled. Every song he sings infuses a mixture of his Pentecostal upbringing, Kentucky Bluegrass, and the soulful sounds of black Gospel.

    If he had a good marketer, the NQC would be calling him. I have most all of his CD’s, and if you’re feeling a little blue, there’s nothing like cranking up his music to make you feel better. The good news though……he’s not about commercial religion, he’s about winning souls for Jesus Christ, and you feel it in the music.

  54. onasidenote wrote:

    Magnolia… were you at NQC last year during Sarah Palin’s speech? Yes, she is a big time political figure, but her speech had nothing at all to do with politics. It wasn’t a political rally, she spoke of her faith. While I’m sure she probably had it in the back of her mind that these people are potential voters, she did keep her speech limited just to what the NQC had her there for. As a draw but not to speak politically.

  55. CVH wrote:

    cdguy - yeah, I was around the label too (83-86), worked with Bill Cole, Carl Seal, etc. I thought the repositioning of Reba might have worked - they did a couple of good projects on her - but the whole thing fizzled out and Dony…well, whatever. Everybody was trying to work with everybody back then - they even paired Dony with some Gloria Gaither lyrics…wow.

  56. Irishlad wrote:

    #50… quaintly provincial.

  57. northquartet wrote:


  58. Irishlad wrote:

    CVH & cdguy..if you’re interested go online to Billboard 21st Dec 1974 issue and partake in some misty-eyed nostalgia involving some of the guys you mentioned i.e. Bill Cole, Carl Seal and not forgetting the brains behind the outfit,Ralph Carmichael and Jarrell McCracken.An interesting article logging the seminal days of Light/Lexicon..with a bit of horse studdery thrown in for good measure.

  59. Irishlad wrote:

    Re:#57. Billboard. Vol 86 No 51 Pages 35-37.

  60. Irishlad wrote:

    59 Should read Re:58. Sorry it’s the time lag, it’s 02.56 here ;)

  61. Magnolia wrote:

    To #56: He may seem rural or small-town, but at least he’s more sincere than a lot of what we see today. Many artists today are products of commercialized religion gone stale.

    It’s karaoke with a CD pitch (would the following be quaintly provincial??? LOL LOL)

    “Alright folks, tonight we would like for you to visit our table because we would love to meet you. We just LOVE meeting the folks all across America who support our ministry. Let me tell you about our latest project that we just recorded in Nashville called “Singing in the Pew”.

    Our latest CD called “Singing in the Pew” is $15.00…….but tonight, and I get excited just talking about this…… if you come by the table and ask for our Springtime Package Deal, you can buy ALL 4 CD’s for just $50.00.

    Now, that’s not all - if you were not a part of our “Live in Birmingham” DVD, we’ll even throw that amazing DVD into the package……. PLUS, we’ll throw in a color 8 x 10 picture autographed by everyone in the group AND a rhinestone WWJD bracelet for the little ones at home.

    AGAIN, here’s what you get…… 4 CD’s to include our latest project “Singing in the Pew”, our “Live in Birmingham” DVD which will bless your socks off, an 8 x 10 autographed, color picture and a rhinestone WWJD bracelet. Folks, you can’t beat that for $50.00.

    This package will definitely encourage you as you drive to work or school. This would also make a great Christmas gift or birthday gift.

    We accept cash or check. If you write a check, make your checks out to “The Shallow River Quartet”. Now, you may say that you don’t cash or checks. No problem - we take VISA, MasterCard and Discover.”
    To #54: No, I didn’t attend the NQC last year. After Palin’s Katie Couric interview, that pretty much proved the point for me. People today seem to support political candidates NOT based upon qualifications, facts and experience, they support them based on a feeling. Of course Palin would have seemed more spiritual than political (even though she’s still a political candidate). She’s like most of them - a pragmatic materialist. She does what works. It worked for George Bush - it worked for Barack Obama - and it works for her. That’s why this country is in such a mess - it’s like the old B. J. Thomas song - everyone is “Hooked on a Feeling”.

  62. cdguy wrote:

    Irishlad — is that article online?

    CVH — I liked(and still do) the Gloria/Dony songs. I thought it was about time she got a better tunesmith. ;-) While Dony blends well, he’s really not much of a soloist. Really, the same with Reba.

    And the personal issues were still too fresh for me to get too excited about their projects, except for The Lord’s Prayer. I thought that was a landmark recording.

    As for the Rambo’s Light recordings, I think they just weren’t the same sound, and never really cared for them as the ones from the mid-70’s. I thought that was when they were at their best.


  63. CVH wrote:

    irishlad - checking it out, thanks for the tip.

    cdguy - I agree on the tunesmith angle but it was a little crass to me on the business side - taking a lyricist like Gloria and trying to set it against Dony’s disco-pop style. I always had mixed feelings about it. The one standout (IMHO) was “Ordinary Baby” -perfect marriage of lyrics and music.

    Agree, the Rambo’s “sound” and the best tunes were in the ’70s when they were on Heartwarming. Classic stuff.

  64. CVH wrote:

    Here’s the link to the Google books reprint of the article:,+1974&hl=en&ei=C89mTbLXFIHAtgfTw4nnAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCgQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

  65. quartet-man wrote:

    I really like “Upon This Rock” that Dony and Gloria wrote. I can’t think of others offhand. As far as Dony, I really liked his vocals on “It’s My Desire” when he was in the Downings.

  66. Sabrina wrote:

    Kim and TaRanda on the same stage at NQC honoring Tony….never gonna happen. Those two do NOT get along….major jealousy.

  67. lovelife wrote:

    #66….HUH? Are you serious?

  68. Me wrote:

    Sabrina, you are so far off, it’s really not worth dignifying with a response.

    I personally witnessed Kim say ON STAGE at NQC about 2 years ago that her favorite Soprano at the time was Taranda Greene.

    Get the facts straight woman!

  69. cdguy wrote:

    CVH — Thanks for the link. I’d heard and talked to Ralph on several occaisions, but never heard some of that about the songbooks. I had heard him say many times it’s about getting the gospel to the young people, in the language they can understand. Not unlike Wycliffe Bible Translators.

    I remember when Reba’s product was first introduced at a sales meeting, she was referred to as “a legend in her own mind”. And when we saw the beautiful album cover, there was tongue-in-cheek speculation she’d used a stand-in for the photo shoot.

    Good times.

  70. Sabrina wrote:

    #68…really? Yes, I heard that comment too. And maybe, just maybe things change. I do have the facts straight. You need to back off.

  71. CVH wrote:

    cdguy - that’s awesome! Yeah, no shortage of egos there. I remember a couple of other photo shoots (not Reba’s) where a couple drinks were involved in order to get the artist to relax and get into the shoot. Not common but it happened. And yes, it went on the artist’s budget. Gotta love it!

  72. LaRolf McCoin wrote:

    #70, Sebrina………..and where did you get the “straight facts?” It is funny to me how people can go on these “boards” and make outlandish statements without backing it up with proof. SABRINA, “WHERE’S THE BEEF”?

  73. cynical one wrote:

    Me & Sabrina — WOW!!! There’s so much LOVE here!

    I hope you don’t talk with your co-workers, fellow church-goers, and family members in that tone. Not a great reflection of Jesus.


  74. Ode wrote:

    @ 32 Irishlad - whats “fithy mouth?” Pithy? thanks for the compliment. Or “filthy”?:D well, i certainly have one of those, but i speak Engl as Second Language. You have enviably rich vocabulary-do help a damsel in linquistic distress! What’s a polit correct version of ” religious fundamentalist assholes”,a term that conveys the precise meaning of the phrase yet remains polite? I will be greatly obliged ,owe you lunch and 2 kosher kisses

  75. irishlad wrote:

    Me & Sabrina.. Meaooow.
    Ode, you were right, I meant filthy not fifty nor pithy- although I am a bit terse at times ;)
    Pc for ‘religious fundamentlist assholes’ IS ‘religious fundamentlist assholes ‘(may the good Lord have mercy on your filthy mouth) :) And yes, I would be delighted to return the lunch and two kosher kisses(they don’t necessarily have to be kosher) with a few Irish coffees.
    Btw I joined a group on FB called ‘Lovers of Israel’ check it out if you’re on FB, there are some nice quotes and pics. Top of the morning to ya.

  76. Me wrote:

    Sabrina, put your money where your mouth is, or shut the yack up.

  77. tommy wrote:

    Its stupid to say that the DMB should be off because they have had many personal changes. Members leave ALL groups not just the DMB’s. Look at Gold City, the Perrys and Greater Vision. Ed has always given new talent a chance instead of stealing members like other guys. No, they are not as modern as the plastic groups like Legacy Five or the Booth Brothers but they have a fan base that has clearly spoken up. The last decade has been better than you are trying to portray. Badly performed songs….are you serious? Derrick Selph, Dustin Sweatman, devin McGlamery, Dan Keeton, etc. These guys are great singers. Another point that has been missed. Has anyone noticed a change going on over there? They just signed with Song Garden and with a marketing company. I’m guessing these major changes have been made via the arrival of new tenor, Matt Felts. I may be wrong but maybe they are making changes in the right direction. I wouldn’t count them out yet even though the NQC board has.

  78. Hector Luna wrote:

    #77 if you’ve listened to DMB’s new material, it’s not that stimulating musically. perhaps because most of it is not new. however, in many cases when group members leave, there is an upgrade…especially with the likes of Perry’s, GV, Legacy Five (well, Gus), among others. historically, DMB has had some solid vocalists, there just hasn’t been much continuity in length to truly make them relevant in a long while.

    Furthermore, it’s hard to hammer out great new songs in an industry that so rarely takes chances. and that ain’t DMB’s fault. i don’t really see them “pushing the envelope” anytime soon. That being said, Ed O’Neal is a great dude who really helps developing talents and though I believe the NQC is doing the “right” thing, I’m not sure if it’s the “good” thing.

  79. Irishlad wrote:

    Avery,why don’t you consider putting a like/dislike option at the end of each post something akin to what facebook and youtube have? This would give readers who don’t necessarily want to voice their opinion in writing the opportunity to give an indication of their thoughts and feelings in an indirect way.A by-product of this would be an automatic monitoring of the number of visitors to the site…well of those who would tick the box at least.

  80. art wrote:

    Yesterday I listened to the Hoppers’ “Live in Greenville” CD. That, along with the Cathedrals’ “Farewell Celebration”, are my favorite SG CDs. Not one loser song in the bunch. The songs range from toe-tapping enjoyable to powerful and inspiring. No filler material here (unless you want to count the tiresome talk on the Hoppers CD).

    But both those CDs are from the last century, I think (I’m too lazy to confirm this).

    Are there any newer CDs in which the group bats 1.000? Heck, I’d settle for .900!

  81. irishlad wrote:

    #80 Art, why don’t you refresh your jaded palate with a couple of The Collingsworth Family DVD’s . I have a feeling you’ll find exactly what you’re looking for there.

  82. DMP wrote:

    Always fun to read all the posts. It’s funny really. All of the “somebodies” come here because they can post anonymously as a “nobody.” Meanwhile, all of the “nobodies” post here because they desperately want people to think the are “somebody.” Maybe Brad Paisley was right. We are all cooler online.

  83. tommy wrote:

    The right thing….? Wow, putting on a low level talent group like the Browns and taking off a group that has developed the BIGGEST names in the bussiness is somehow the right thing. Have you not seen how the NQC over the last five years has been in constant turmoil? They change the format every year. They say its because the crowds are going down. Could this not be a result of really poor leadership? If this had any fairness then Gold City would be off as well. The group has lost everyone but one man yet they are given the red carpet treatment. You can attack the DMB’s but I find it odd that if they have no fans, why is the MOST talked about issue in SG today? Interseting.

  84. cdguy wrote:

    DMP — ROFLOL — I think you may be right.

  85. observor wrote:

    Nicely put!

  86. Me wrote:

    Dixie Melody Boys never were close to Gold City, in all fairness. If Greater Vision lost Rodney, they would never pull them off the stage (even though only 1 original would be left).

  87. Hector Luna wrote:

    #86 True. however, they would have 2/3 of the original group if Rodney left…Chris came back.

    And Tommy, I think SG fans who only listen to it based on tradition have just always known and appreciated DMB for making their other favorite groups better. They’ve just always been around. Much of this industry is based on tradition, and so things stay the same. There is potential outrage if something is drastically changed. I think DMB is actually benefiting from this in the long run. You’re right, much publicity has come of this. So now, everybody has come out of the woodwork to become “huge” DMB fans overnight. I actually believe the NQC board and Ed O’Neal have had this planned for some time…business ain’t been this good since the mid 90’s.

  88. Jennifer wrote:

    #82-you’re so right! wow!

    In response to Sabrina, I have heard similiar comments regarding Kim and TaRanda, I have no idea what or who to believe and I don’t care much really….God bless them all!

  89. LarryS wrote:

    #86 & 87 - GV is only 2/3 original NOW… Rodney wasn’t there when they started. Just had to throw that out there.

  90. irishlad wrote:

    #83 The only reason the NQC crowd is shrinking is because the coffin dodgers are dropping off one by one.

  91. art wrote:

    #81 Irishlad: Any specific project you’d recommend?

  92. accent wrote:

    irishlad, you’re gonna be there one day if you live long enough. of course there is a coffin out there for all of us.

  93. Hector Luna wrote:

    #89. yes, he was with the aforementioned, DMB. and walked into a great opportunity, even if you are replacing a Mark Trammell.

  94. irishlad wrote:

    #92 Accent I’m going to be there whether I live long or not :)
    Art, check them out on Youtube first and see what you like(should tell you which videos they’re from) then go to Springside Marketing and take your pick.’A night to remember’ is good…they’re all good .

  95. irishlad wrote:

    …also ‘Your ticket to Music Hall’, let me know Art.

  96. Wade wrote:

    SOMEBODY said they knew Kim & Taranda had no bad issues with each other cause Kim said Taranda was her Favorite Singer in the NQC Stage!!! BAHAHahahhha!!!

    Like that makes it TRUE cause it was said THERE at NQC… yeah and the Kingsmen had to retire their name once to HONOR the LEGACY of Foxy!! There wasn’t any MONEY ISSUES over it at ALL!!!

  97. Ode wrote:

    @75, great, then RFA it is! nice,plus to learning about a new (to me) indie music genre of SG I polish my english here.
    Thanks,Irishlad- I guess I am not soft as the southern belles in this avery’s place, but it does melt my heart to see Gentile people proclaiming their love of The Land. You can also promise me to stand by Her and tell off whenever Israel is bashed by anybody in your RL or virtual proximity.
    That particularly ballsy move will merit another 2 quality kisses on my side of the bargain ;)

  98. Ode wrote:

    @82 wise observation ! and often true, blog comments made by people with handles like “reverend”, etc, usually clearly serve them as ego booster and penile extender. I’dd add another thought - online social media indeed traffics in exhibitionism,but just like religion and alcohol, it doesn’t really create a personality, but rather enforces it. If you’re a big arse by nature, then internet, religion or booze all are likely to make you just a bigger one. A faithless church-a-holic in real life turns to be an intolerable bigot in blogosphere, but also knowlegable, fun, humble and loving people appear even more so due to this enhancement ability of The Internets. Doubleedged sword :)

  99. Irishlad wrote:

    Yes Ode i’m very proud to be pro-Israeli,also i love your use of the British word arse rather than ass…a much more scathing perjorative.

  100. art wrote:

    #94-95 Irishlad: I appreciate the guidance. I’m a little disappointed that I didn’t get more feedback on my question. I guess the topic didn’t trip anybody’s trigger. Oh well.

  101. Irishlad wrote:

    I see the Perrys are firing on all cylinders again, 4 vocal ones that is.Caught them on Youtube performing “Nothing was burnt”(except Tracy’s B.M.I.), i have to say he’s looking,singing and more importantly, hopefully feeling well too.I hate the word underrated and until a better adjective infiltrates the Sg vocabulary,that’s exactly what he is.

  102. Irishlad wrote:

    The PSQ are REALLY HOT PROPERTY at the moment (maybe someone could elaborate re: Naomi Judd/Larry Strickland boost) check out “Don’t it seem like Heaven” Youtube FreshWellMedia channel.

  103. Jennifer wrote:

    Wade- right on. Very true.

  104. lovelife wrote:

    Wade: Kinda like if it’s in the National Enquirer, it’s true in hollywood.

  105. Me wrote:

    The original comment was flat out gossip. Not first-hand, not a quote of an actual comment, nothing but gossip. National Enquirer indeed.

  106. Wade wrote:

    Thank You ladies for agreeing with me… it does not happen often!!! :-))

    Here is another thought about the main stage. As long as Tim Riley is with The Seven Dwarfs or even the Dixie Melody Boys, THAT deserves Main Stage TIME!!

    Tim is The Man… I just wished he could find a few again to sing with them.

    How about it out there ppl… how is GCQ sounding??? I am surprised we do not have more concert reports on here.

    I am fully expecting the Brent Mitchell guy to not be able to sing a GCQ Tenor the way he sounded on the few clips I have seen. But sometimes you develop some incredible chops singing 3-4 times a week, so we will see!!!

  107. LS wrote:

    I saw Gold City last Sunday night. Brent did just fine! I was impressed with the lead singer’s voice, and Craig will loosen up as he gets more stage experience. Of course, Danny and Tim were great…but I was really, truly excited by Chris West. I wish he had been on stage for more than two songs! I’m in no hurry for Tim to retire, but Chris will be the perfect successor when he does. I wouldn’t worry too much about Gold City; this line-up has great potential to become your favorite!

  108. Wade wrote:

    Thanks LS!!! I have give GCQ mucho grief in the past but it really is because I love them!!

  109. Johnny wrote:

    Re: Kim & Taranda - P L E A S E !!
    Kim has every right to be jealous. Taranda is AWESOME. Kim is good, but has never been awesome. Taranda has more singing power and range in her feather bola than Kim has in her over-rated voice box.

    Now a good compromise would be for Dean to accept his parents have poor lip synchronization, let them retire, make Kim be the alto we all wish she’d realize she is, and have Taranda do the soprano Kim wishes she could.

    The title of the first CD could be “All singing parts in the right places (except for those surgically altered). Anyone want to design this cover?

  110. Irishlad wrote:

    Wade next to you i’m GC’s biggest fan the only trouble with Tim is he’s an ugly son of a bitch (now why did i just say that?).

  111. cynical one wrote:

    Johnny — cover design: the 3 of them standing, with Kim in the middle, looking down her nose at Taranda. Keep John out of the cover shot, since he’s really just the tech guy.

    Maybe cat costumes for the girls, and a look of shock on Dean’s face.

    Oh, the places this could go.

  112. Wade wrote:

    IrishLad… you said it because it is true… you should see him on the back of the bus w/ no hair!!! But I still love him… he is a GREAT GUY and PLEASURE to work with and can absolutely make me so jealous I don’t have those pipes.

    As far as ppl bangin’ on Kim Hopper for having work done and think that is a dig because they think Taranda has NOT had any work done… well I THINK you might wanna take another look!!!

    BUT I AIN’T HATIN’!!! I LOVE what a good Doc can do!! I’ve invested in 4 sets boobage myself!! AND will AGAIN!!!

    But little Johnny does have a great post!!!

  113. DMP wrote:

    Anyone else see the new GVB album will be all childrens songs? Not sure how I feel about that…

  114. Me wrote:

    Give them some room. If they wanna make a kid’s cd, why not? Raise up a new gen X of SG lovers. :)

  115. Odeliya wrote:

    @110 - :)) Denial of photogenic, honesty projecting and charismatic mug is Elohim’s way to make sure Tim uses his mouth to worship, not smoothtalking hot women or, lfor example, electorate, if he were to run for public office, into as cliche has it the same outcome ;)

    Thanks for lack of attempts to pick up a turd by clean end, otherwise known as politcorrectness, Irish and Wade - your posts always bring southern christianity to human level, making it sound real.

    (Confidentially to I-lad) appreciate the stance you expressed, truly. I commented on LofIsrael page on 1st of march- if you ever need any info,q-n, etc on the subject, drop a fb msg, will be glad to help.

  116. Irishlad wrote:

    Phil Boles(another Northern Irish reader)and myself are going to see the GVB on wed 9th March.Will let you good folk know what went on.

  117. cynical one wrote:

    This open thread received 116 comments in about 2 1/2 weeks. I hope that meets with the person’s approval, who thought we weren’t commenting enough, that this site was not as relevant/popular as it was a year or so ago.


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