Open Thread

I have to turn things over to the interns for the next little bit so that I can get some work done at home and on the road. Thus the floor is yours for the new few days.

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  1. Aaron Swain wrote:

    Those pesky interns! We all know “next” isn’t spelled “new.”

  2. WB wrote:

    Was listening to this past “The Gospel Greats” where they played a song by “11th Hour”. Never heard of them before but they sounded pretty good!

  3. Sensible wrote:

    What is the opinion of the Singing News Fan Awards concerning the red carpet rolled out and all the “gospel stars” walking down it to go to the awards show? Do you think it was classy, or just silly?

  4. NG wrote:

    #3 As long as the red carpet wasn’t used to symbolize the blood of Jesus, I’m OK with it.

    Scotty McCreery (2011 American Idol winner) has his debut album out and it includes one semi-gospel song entitled “That Old King James” with lyrics like “Preacher gave it to him when he was eight,
    That Sunday morning he got saved in that little church
    Grandaddy totted it to Bible school
    I bet back then it looked brand new, not a faded word
    Now the cover’s torn and the leather’s worn… on that Old King James”

    One of the co-writers wrote a country song called “Billy’s Got His Beer Goggles On.” Those country songwriters sure are versatile.

  5. Hector Luna wrote:

    #2 - yeah, probably a uncomfortable feeling for some of the artists. Yet, probably a long-time anticipated moment for others.

    #3 - Long live the south! Natty Lights and KJV’s at Moose Lodge tonight. Don’t go asking for a Cosmopolitan. They’ll look at you like you’re an idiot. Trust me…

  6. Hector Luna wrote:

    I mean #3 & #4. Apologies.

  7. NG wrote:

    Hector: Living up here in Ontario, Canada I had to Google Natty Lights to find out it is a brand of beer called Natural Lite. Apparently it sells well but price might be a factor since one place had 30 cans for $12.50. Because of sin taxes, you can’t get 12 beers in Ontario for $12.50. Government figures only sinners will complain if you put high taxes on sinful things like booze and cigarettes.

  8. Bones wrote:

    Heard that Blackwood Brothers were hateful to their neighbors at NQC. Even had a board member address the issue.

  9. CVH wrote:

    Just some random questions from the whimsical to the politically-incorrect:

    1. The great hymns of the faith are still sung 200 even 300 years after they were written. The singing conventions and revivals of the early 20th century produced songs that are still popular a hundred years later; names like Vaughan, Stamps, Baxter, Dorsey and Brumley are legend. Even songs from the last 50 years are standouts; “Jesus Is Coming Soon”, “He Looked Beyond My Fault and Saw My Need”, “The Lighthouse”,
    “Midnight Cry”. Who are the up and coming writers whose songs fans will still be applauding 50 or 100 years from now? Not the Rodney Griffins or Sue Smiths, good as they are; but younger, vibrant talent?

    2. Full-time groups are trying to make a living doing what they love. Record companies and publishers are trying to stay in the black in a market that has fickle taste and an overload of technology and choice at their fingertips. At the same time, the fan base is aging and there seems to be a growing disconnect with younger fans. What’s the southern gospel industry going to look like 10 or 20 years from now?

    3. Are we too obsessed with ’sin’ or doesn’t it really matter? I mean, when it comes to the personal lives of the writers, producers, company execs and artists themselves, is it right to hold them to a higher standard or should we shrug it off because, despite their calling, they’re no different than us? We love to buzz about who’s drinking or smoking or gay or screwing so-and-so’s wife but do we stop going to their shows or buying their records?

    4. When Bill Gaither retires from the Homecoming Shows or passes away, will it be as simple as passing on the franchise to a Mark Lowry or someone else, or will it be the end of an era?

    5. 70’s Oak Ridge Boys or 70’s
    J.D. or George?
    Piano only or tracks?
    NQC or Dove Awards?
    Matching suits or mix ‘n match?
    Reba or Joy?
    Cracker Barrel or Denny’s?

  10. quartet-man wrote:

    #9 CVH

    5. 70’s Oak Ridge Boys
    Piano only or tracks? Both
    Matching suits or mix ‘n match? Doesn’t matter much to me.
    Cracker Barrel

  11. Soli Deo Gloria wrote:

    Hector, give me an IPA and an ESV. I’m way too reformed for low quality beer and King James English.

  12. pink wrote:

    What happened to Roy Webb? Haven’t heard much about him since he left Gold City. Checked his website schedule and nothing scheduled since oct 2010.

  13. pink wrote:

    #3 Just makes them seem to look full of themselves just like Hollywood.

  14. RickinSoGA wrote:

    Re: #9- On #5-
    70’s Imperials
    Piano only

  15. Hector Luna wrote:

    Soli, can we hang out soon? My number is 555-555-5555. We’ll bump some Lecrae before our ESV Bible study, and maybe download the latest audio from the “Desiring God” conference with a pint of Newcastle or Guinness. I do believe that is God glorifying.

  16. j-mo wrote:

    70’s Oak Ridge Boys or 70’s
    Imperials? Imperials

    J.D. or George? George

    Piano only or tracks? Live band

    NQC or Dove Awards? Neither

    Matching suits or mix ‘n match? Mix ‘n match.

    Reba or Joy? Who?

    Cracker Barrel or Denny’s? Steak & Shake.

  17. cynical one wrote:

    #3 — I think the red carpet is not only kinda silly, but doesn’t it also put the artists in a position of elevating themselves, rather than lifting up Jesus?
    Didn’t John the Baptist say to Jesus, “I must decrease, so that you may increase”?

    But the whole thing is driven by fans. Fans love it. But they’re not thinking about the spiritual, at this point. Only the temporal.

    And let’s face it — even in Christian entertainment, there’s always a degree of sex appeal.

  18. Sensible wrote:

    #13 - I agree with you Pink. I used to sing in the professional realm, and even back then I thought how silly some of the events were. It is just as silly as some of the groups who get a #1 song (that they paid tons of money for) and then throw (buy) themselves a party including lemos and filming it all. Then they make statements like, “Who would have thought we would have been riding in lemos and where we are today?” It is just so stupid. I just like people to be “real” instead of painting themselves or letting others paint them as “gospel stars.” This kind of stuff like this just makes me want to puke.

  19. mixer wrote:

    CVH I’ll take a shot at a few of your questions.

    1. First one that comes to mind is Joseph Habedank(sp?)

    2. Two scenarios. The current trend continues and you end up with way too many groups with a thinned out talent pool and the fans lose. Or, groups figure out a way to do fewer dates, increase employee loyalty/happiness and more “super” groups are created with 10 year plus, member tenures. Fans win.

    3. Double standards will always be around, but that doesn’t mean dismissal is an incorrect punishment. But once you go down that road, you have to remain consistent.

    4. It will be the end of that era but I envision Haase doing something very similar.

    5. Don’t really care about any of those categories. I will say since the awards really have no spiritual basis, to find out who really is the best, let a secular awards committee determine the winners.

  20. Wade wrote:

    Wish these comments had a LIKE button or even dislike for YGG & such!!! :-)

    Will have some Roy Webb update in the SGM Dirt Sheet I am working on… please keep sending you submissions to my facebook inbox or to the email

    So Soli what does one who is REFORMED drink for chillin’!!!???


    1. OAKS of Course
    2. George no doubt
    3. Piano, but the singers can’t be hiding behind too many effects on their channel
    4. NQC…sadly
    5. Mix ‘n match?
    6. Reba
    7. Cracker Barrel

    Can’t believe you did not work Suzan in to that some place!!!

  21. Andrew S. wrote:

    pink- A quick Google search states that Roy Webb is involved in Cincinatti, OH, area real estate. However, he still lists, on Facebook, “Roy Webb Music” as his employer.

  22. irishlad wrote:

    15 Would that be Newcastle brown ale? Sweet baby Jesus that stuff’s rocket fuel.Btw that wasn’t red carpet it was blood on the floor after the nominees beat seven bells out of each other :)

  23. Logan Pettis wrote:

    How were the Blackwoods hateful. I was over there many times and they seemed very inviting to me. In fact they were laughing most of the time. Curiosity.

  24. Friday Night Revival wrote:

    In case anyone would like to see, we held an artist/industry/fan poll for some new and innovative categories. And fans could only vote down to the top 3, from there, the board picked, comprised of artists/industry and a few of the local bloggers. Not that it means anything, but the SN Fan Awards don’t mean that much either these days.

    Results here.

  25. Soli Deo Gloria wrote:

    Amen, Hector! I’m there.

    Wade, the general rule is any beer that requires pouring into a glass and any decent red wine that didn’t come from a gas station are acceptable for “chillin” to the glory of God.

  26. NG wrote:

    Good News Irishlad. I’ve found a site that has ties to both Newcastle Brown Ale and Gospel Music. It’s the site of a 26-year-old model who says she has done promotion work for Newcastle Brown and for the Gospel Music Channel.

  27. Waters wrote:

    The Mark Blackwood Quartet and the Toney Brothers have merged…..Translation: The Toney Brothers are over.

    Glad that Terry gets to still sing. Yet it’s a terrible shame what the guys he had did to him. I would hate to know that my group got its start as a result of flipping Terry’s dates, and totally ending a 56 year group’s history. I guess integrity takes a backseat with some so-called gospel groups.

    And to the “ex-Toneys” responsible….try honesty boys, it works better.

  28. yankeegospelgirl wrote:

    I was on the board for the Revival Awards, and I fully support what FNR is doing with them. The categories were varied and creative, and good stuff finished in the top tier everywhere. It turned out much more interesting than the SN awards.

  29. Braxton Lyric Shaw wrote:

    1–I agree with Mixer–Joseph Habedank if ANYBODY.The industry doesnt put value into looking for new writers.They just keep plucking from the same staff writers.Nobody is going to convince me that the only songs worth recording out there are coming from Marty Funderburk,Barry Weeks,Tony Wood,Jim Brady,Diane Wilkinson,Sue Smith,Keena Turner West and Joel Lindsey,and the other rubber stamp additions to MULTIPLE projetcs

    2–Southern Gospel will have even less identity then ,then it does now.It started and thrived as a quartet based business model for decades.When they started getting away from quartets and being more mixed group friendly and other various type ensembles,they lost their identity.Expect an even more rapid descent into a new genre

    3–I used to book concerts at Beckie Simmons Agency,and at that time,we booked Gold City.I can ASSURE you that people stopped going to their concerts,and the asking price went down in the number of a few 1,000 a night.As for me,yes I have stopped going to the concerts of those that are in pattern oriented reckless sin.To each their own

    4–When Gaither walk away,I think their will be a large void to the TV market.Other than that,I dont see much of a problem.Now,on one hand,MANY careers that have been featured and promoted for FAR too long,will now be in the same boat as everyone else,and perhaps some fresh,new talent can arise through the intentional cobwebs that are strangling this industry

    *Piano Only,but tracks can be nice if their arent layer over layer over layer of vocal stacks
    *Cracker Barrel

  30. Kyle wrote:

    If I were New Haven Records, I’d be ready to pull my hair out with GC’s latest record.

  31. Aaron Swain wrote:

    #30: I’m going to ask about that when I go to see them Friday. Jerry Pelfrey stated on Facebook that it would be out by the end of the month.

  32. Hector Luna wrote:

    #26 NG. Great find. Yet another reason, that the Gospel, its theology, and some works of Luther, Calvin, and Spurgeon are perfect supplements to a God glorifying evening.

    Where do you live Soli? Maybe we can make plans to set up a vendor outside the NQC next year, complete with some frosted mugs, and hand out donated copies of “Institutes” and ESV NT’s. Might make it a more interesting week. I know it would spice it up for Avery.

  33. irishlad wrote:

    NG where did you dig that up?!
    Live band
    Sisters…nothing :)
    Only place that sticks in my mind is Swiss Chalet,maybe NG will back me on that one?

  34. Bones wrote:

    Kasey Kemp is at it again. Tried to destroy a group. T.B.

  35. yankeegospelgirl wrote:

    1. Not sure… I like Jim Brady and Joe Habedank.

    2. America isn’t going to run out of old people in the next 10 or 20 years.

    3. No we aren’t, yes it does, and some of us do.

    4. The show will go on.

    5. 70’s Imperials
    6. George
    7. Shrug
    8. NQC
    9. If they’re nice suits I don’t care.
    10. Who?
    11. Cracker Barrel

  36. NG wrote:

    I have hard time choosing between the 70s Oaks and Imperials (they were the first two SGM groups I ever saw). Imperials were better singers but Oaks were more exciting on stage. Prefer full band but will take just piano over tracks (too karaoke). Not crazy about Denny’s or Cracker Barrel. Best place I found to eat in Louisville (low-price division) was the restaurant in a bowling alley on Phillips Lane near the convention center.

    Irishlad: I do eat at Swiss Chalet, a chicken food chain here in Canada that old folks love. Found the model’s site by googling Newcastle Brown and Gospel Music.

  37. Just a thought wrote:

    Friday Night Revival’s awards are admirable. And maybe next time a few of the categories can be even stronger. For example, Best Original “Up-Tempo” Song was not exactly filled with the best songs lyrically and melodically, and the Session Pianist category had some names that were more touring pianists than session pianists.

  38. Bones wrote:

    Joy or Reba, You need to rehash the scandel in the 70’s. But the choose would be Reba.

  39. quartet-man wrote:

    #38 I never thought about the girls’ looks or the scandal when I answered (although I got it reading some of the later comments) earlier. I was going strictly by how much I prefer whose singing these days.

  40. Sensible wrote:

    Does anyone have an opinion on the new weekly Singing News chart that is coming in January?

  41. Friday Night Revival wrote:

    #36 - You are correct. In the “Session Pianist” category, we had guys like Gary Prim, Jeff Collins, Jason Webb, and of course, the best, Stan Whitmire, among others.

    But when you get fans involved, they don’t vote for those guys. But I do hope it causes fans to begin taking notice of lesser publicized talent. We’re trying. Had to start somewhere.

    If you have any suggestions, feel free to shoot me an e-mail.

  42. EnoughAlready wrote:

    I have heard a rumor that the new SN weekly chart will feature input of @ 9 stations, that have the proper technology. That is why they have relaxed their earlier deadline (for monthly reporters) to eliminate stations that did not comply with their demands by Jan. 1. Does anyone know how this will work or does it even matter any more?

  43. observor wrote:

    All you people saying Joseph Habedank cant be serious?

  44. Tim Maze wrote:

    #40. It’s my opinion it will be for the good of the industry to track what is actually being played versus what is actually being reported.

  45. canaan sebastian wrote:

    Dont know if any of you noticed this or care,but I saw something on Brian Free & Assurances facebook today that made me nauseous…Here is his post–”Many of you told me to let you know when we were getting low on supplies on the bus, well we are getting low. You will never know how much we appreciate you keeping us in your thoughts and prayers. I’ll list the things we need in one minute. Brian”………..I thought to myself,well he isnt seriously going to let fans know is he?? Then he posted THIS immediately–”Paper towels, RV toilet paper, PAPER plates, Plastic cups, Paper bowls, 9 volt batteries (Duracell or Energizer), AA batteries, AAA batteries and anything else you would like to bring. I can’t thank you enough, you are supporting us more than you know. Love you ALL! Brian”…….Maybe none of you have an issue with this,but i think its horrificly desperate and as unprofessional as it gets for a artist on the road to do.Struggling artist?? Fine…Brian Free and Assurance who make thousands EVERYNIGHT,whose members all own houses,essentially using fandom to make fans feel sympathetic?? NEVER a cool thing.Not only does he take the begging from the stage angle WAY too far anyway(his line,which he boldly says out loud during the begging portion,is that if every person in here gave 20 dollars,it still wouldnt be enough for our expenses) he now is having fans pay for paper towels and batteries?? Maybe they should get over themselves thinking that theyre the Beatles by driving around in a 50 foot semi-bus and realize that THAT is the reason,if any,that theyre expenses seem out of whack.Didnt anybody ever think of THAT?? Gospel groups are riding around in the same luxury busses that the millionaire pop stars use,and they think its a justified expense to where they can lay the lame,old excuse of–”Our gas is really expensive” nonsense.I have NO problem with a group accepting a gift in ANY appropriate manner.But to publically go on your facebook and take advantage of something a fan said,instead of paying for your own stuff like every other american alive,is low.PERIOD

  46. steveO wrote:

    #45, let me guess (you used to be in a group and now you can’t get a job).

    Only kidding but it sounds to me you might be jealous.

    Assurance is not my favorite group but I think you underestimate the road expenses today and they do not make thousands every night — NOBODY DOES.

  47. JL wrote:

    5. 70’s Oak Ridge Boys or 70’s
    Imperials? Neither. THE TENNESSEANS

    J.D. or George? GEORGE (OR REX)


    NQC or Dove Awards? I’D RATHER HAVE Hemorrhoids THAN ATTEND EITHER.

    Matching suits or mix ‘n match? WHATEVER THEY HAVE AT GOODWILL.


    Cracker Barrel or Denny’s? DENNY’S - CAN YOU SAY CHEESE…..Denny’s Fried Cheese Melt YUM!!!

  48. Bones wrote:

    #45, That is too much. We all do good to buy our own. Maybe we can’t afford gas to go see them.

  49. irishlad wrote:

    Re.45. Brian son, if things are that bad just call it a day, you’ve done your bit for God and country,at least you finished on a roll…pity it was a toilet roll :-/

  50. CVH wrote:

    Bones (#38),

    Yeah, I get your point but I figured anyone who was around then would get it. If they weren’t, no big deal.

    Wade (#20),

    I could have included the lovely Suzan but no matter the question, she would have been the answer. Wouldn’t have been fair to anyone else :)

  51. canaan sebastian wrote:

    #46…No,I have never been in a group.No,Im not jealous one bit. 1-I know its all politics. 2-The good old boys system where groups just pluck from other groups and always call it a GOD thing is the ONLY way in. 3-It has nothing to do with vocal ability anymore,so tho Im not cool with that,while learning that it is what it is,Im certainly not jealous.Now,If I was somebody who wanted others to take care of amenities and essentials while I just sit back and collect,all the while KNOWING I can provide without their help,and i saw Brian doing this,THEN yeah i would be jealous.But thats not the type of person I am.Also,they DO in fact make thousands every night.At LEAST 1,500–that is their LOWBALL agreeing total.EVERY night.They will do a love offering here and there on go thru dates where they have a cancellation,and to be fair,they will do more than other topline groups,but the rest are booked dates that have agreed money.I know the people who book them,i know promoters who book them,Im like brothers with someone who booked dates for years,etc etc…I KNOW what theyre making as well as everyone else on Harper or Beckies roster.Also,I do not underestimate road expenses.I just put high value on living within your means.A southern gospel quartet riding around in a 50 foot semi-BUS, that wouldnt be out of place for the RICHEST pop star,is RIDICULOUS.Even more arrogantly preposterous is the idea that playing “Poor us” because the diesel gas for such a vehicle is so expensive,is an appropriate viewpoint to put out there as a ministry.Finally in response to you,I tell you that BFA and The Vocal Band are by far and away my favorite groups.But this turned my stomach…..#48 and #49,you obviously “get it”.Not that its complicated.Unprofessionalism that transparent is only going to be defended by “industry” people.

  52. quartet-man wrote:

    #51 I’m not getting into whether he should have posted that or not (I already sort of did elsewhere), but I will say you are confusing the amount they charge to sing with profit. Now, whether they are managing well what their price is, is beyond me. But by the time you put fuel in the bus, pay salaries, insurance, clothes, royalties, studio time, office help etc. the money could go pretty quickly.

  53. Andrew S. wrote:

    Here’s the deal about Brian’s comments. Notice that this was directed to those who had asked for what they needed/could use. Did he actually ask for the items? Possibly, in a round-about-way. However, he didn’t include the entire FB community or obligate them. At. All.

    What would be worse - them plain-out asking for donations on their site without telling where the $$ is headed– or sharing in a FB post simple Dollar General/Family Dollar items? I’d take the latter.

    With spending habits so high among the ‘ministries’** these days, I’d much rather bring a 6-pack of Scott tissue to a concert than a restaurant or visa gift card to blow it on practically anything practical or impractical.

    **Not saying/implying that BF&A are not a ministry.

  54. Wade wrote:

    Irish Lad…. speaking of a Pity Toilet Roll make sure it is SEPTIC Tank FRIENDLY???! :-)

    Soli & I NEED some good Merlot & Easy Drinking beer… you want to come Irish One??? Maybe we could put that on our LIST for Supplies for ppl to buy for us… what a fun reason to start a MINISTRY!!

    Some artist need to be Comped a Week of Cabin Rentals!!! ;-) THAT’S a another Good Reason!!! lolol

  55. Leslie wrote:

    #46: Not making thousands every night? Haha, Do you really believe that? How is it then that they have the Prevost, a home appraised in the $700K range, a Harley, assorted vehicles including a Beemer for your 18 yr old bought when they turned 16, and the wife doesn’t work?? Sort of hard to maintain that life style plus payroll and expenses such as bus maintenance, office, booking agent, product, etc. on 500+ an offering, don’t you think? No, a lifestyle such as these requires taking the widow’s mite from elderly people who attend the venues and guilting them with how “hard” it is to come to your town and sing for you. So you see #46, either you’re incredibly naive and gullible, or you’re defending the lifestyle and don’t want anyone to know what you’ re making when the bus pulls up

  56. irishlad wrote:

    Listen up everybody i’m going to bore you all to tears about my favorite subject; bass singers.Now in my mind a bass singer who could perform a 90 min concert all on his own without clearing the place half way through has to have the whole who out there fills the bill? Well in my mind only one guy..Keith Plott.Now i know scraping the barrel on the low notes is not the be all and end all but on his facebook samples i heard him effortlessly messing with a FI half-way through a song and boy that takes balls.

  57. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    Sadly, in public life of a an artist or a public servant, perception by public is everything.
    Reality doesn’t count with the masses.

  58. NG wrote:

    Speaking of the Imperials, here’s a link to an article on their history on a British site:

  59. Friday Night Revival wrote:

    Yeah, I can’t blame Brian for that. A lot of fans bug artists about what ‘can they give’. Truth. I guess posting it on facebook is going kinda far with it, but it beats asking for donations to pay for bus repairs, or cash to have for gas.

  60. More wrote:

    Leslie is jealous, Sebastian is jealous, and neither one of you rides on a bus or sings 200 dates a year.

    Why don’t you shut up and let someone answer a question that fans are asking. Thank you.

  61. cdguy wrote:

    JD or George? Paul Downing!

  62. steveO wrote:


    What one does with there salary is none of your or anybody elses business, I know lots of people who have nice things and are able to manage there money well.

    You can have nice houses, cars,
    wife not work, etc— on a good salary of say 750 a week.

    Also what if (and that’s a if) someones house came from an inheritance. It always looks good from the outside but you never know what is really going on.

    Your post is even more jealous than the last because you actually named these items that you wished you had.

    So let’s lay a few things out

    Group charges 1,500 (let’s just get greedy and say they charge 2,000) and assuming they get it three nights (knowing that they do not)

    2,000×3 — 6,000
    Sunday offering 1500

    That’s 7,500 in flats

    Sales each night 500
    (I know sometimes more but sometimes it is less)

    500×4 — 2000

    Wow that’s 9,500 a week 38,000 a month, nobody needs help with that.

    Those are not facts but are close
    so let us continue.

    Group has 4 members
    Manager makes 750
    Others a decent salary 550×3
    That’s 2,400
    As a business owner you have to pay S.S and other payroll taxes( on these it would be about 500) 2,900

    If you have a secretary to help out pay them only 350 ((hey I’m cheap ha ha)) + 50 for payroll taxes.
    So payroll would be about 3,300

    it does not matter if it is a a bus new or old or truck bus (what ever they are called) diesel for wed, thurs, fri, sat, and sunday night will be about 1,750.

    A cheap payment for transportation is 1,125 a week.

    Insurance for employees about 300 a week.

    Food expenses 25 a day per person is 400 a week

    Hotels (some are provided by a promoter and some are not so let’s say half are)
    That’s 200

    Those pesky bus supplies that started this. 100

    I could go on and on but let’s just stop there that’s 7,175

    OK you make 9,500 a week
    - 10 or 20 percent for the booking agency (let’s say 15)
    That’s 1,425


    Pay uncle sam taxes on 8,075
    That’s about 1,600 in tax

    8,075-1600 —–

    That leaves you with 6,475 to pay 7,175 in bills

    So making thousands every night does not make you rich it puts you out of business, in fact making over 400,000 a year you lose money.

    And I did not factor in tires or even paying for the product to sell.

    So why do some of these groups do it BECAUSE they are in it for the right reasons, they LOVE what they do and why they do it.

    In the end they find a way to make it work.

  63. Albert Tross wrote:

    #55….you’ve never seen those tv commercials with the guy smiling really big and showing his big house, boat and cars while saying “I’m in debt up to my eyeballs.”…….have you?

  64. TommyJohnCulpepper wrote:


    Without their little fan club, they couldn’t make it work. By the way, your accounting report doesn’t justify an adult man putting in a request for toilet paper. There are a lot of singers in the music business and in the ministry who use toilet paper. I’ve never heard one, until now, ask for it.

    If you think this man can’t afford his own tp, I have some oceanfront property I’d like to sell you in Idaho. My daddy would turn over in his grave if I had done something like this. This is one reason I don’t go to many sings anymore. I take my sweet Thelma Jane, but I almost have to take an antacid when the offering time comes. Homeless people don’t beg like they do.

  65. CG wrote:

    #62, You’re a pretty accurate accountant (apparently) ! While I am not familiar with BFA’s specific situation, I do KNOW that many group, or “ministries”, treat their employees as payroll taxes/unemployment insurance/healthcare/etc… My question is this: In your (well documented) ledger, the “ministry” is losing $700 per month, how are they able to keep “ministering” ? ! How many months would you (gu)estimate they will be able to say on the battlefield for the good Lord ? How many consecutive months do you suppose Walmart/McDonald’s/Coke could stay in business without a profit ? How many consecutive months/years has BFA been ministering to us all ? I’m just asking…?

  66. Leslie wrote:

    #62: By your own admission they are making $1000s per stop. George and Glen were selling 20,000 per concert from the product table back in the early 90’s per their own admission. They were not ashamed of it (nor should they have been), but they didn’t poor mouth either. I’m all for talented artists making all they can, but asking for necessities that we ask use, is embarrassing. Can’t you just see Michael W. Smith, Brad Paisley, or Beyonce asking such a thing? The SG artists in top tier groups do much better than you portray. Bus Drivers, Sound Techs, and Office Personnel make more than your example listed for the group manager! Jealous? No. Taking advantage of the generosity of a widow/widower on a fixed income to support /maintain lifestyle choices, with THAT I take issue.

  67. irishlad wrote:

    61 yea Paul Downing…except he had pitch problems..George and JD certainly did not.

  68. Bones wrote:

    Even Cecil Blackwood never begged for toilet paper.

  69. Bones wrote:

    Irishlad, You say the funniest things. I don’t think some people get it. Did you like London Parrish? He could cry good.

  70. NG wrote:

    One way for groups to reduce need to beg is to improve in quality which should (but not always) result in larger audiences, higher flats and better CD-DVD sales. If that doesn’t work try changing fields of music as the Oaks did by going country or create a new field of gospel as the Imperials did with their contemporary sound. In other words it is up to the groups to figure out how to improve their situation and not up to the fans.

    #68 Cecil Blackwood may not have begged for toilet paper but he did send a letter to fans asking them to donate enough to buy a car for James Blackwood for his special birthday (can’t recall which birthday — 60th or 70th).

  71. Cindy Drost wrote:

    Roy Webb is still performing occasional concerts. My husband and I are hosting
    “A Pella, Iowa Southern Gospel Weekend” on March 31 and April 1 of 2012. Roy Webb will be giving a 2 1/2 hour concert on Sunday, April 1 at 2:00 pm, and those in attendance will be the audience for the creation of a live concert DVD by Roy. Roy stated stated that the concert “will include great music, funny stories, and a few surprises.”

  72. More wrote:

    Leslie, I have no clue where answering a request from THE FANS becomes “Taking advantage of the generosity of a widow/widower on a fixed income” but to each her own.

    You people are hopeless. If you hate them that much, go to another genre and pay $75 a ticket, and avoid having to drop any of your miserly tightwadded greenbacks into the offering plate. …you can just greet the credit card bill at the end of the month instead. And maybe use that for toilet paper.

  73. in Agreement wrote:

    Brian Free asking for some specific items for his bus just doesn’t bother me. If there are people willing to provide some RV toilet paper for the assurance that their favorite group is fresh and clean as a whistle before they sing, I’m all for it. Even though I am seldom curious about what goes on as SG buses roll along, I am curious about the batteries. What could they need them for? I also wonder when, exactly, the supplies began to get low? I hope they are going to be in my area soon. I have to go to Costco to get my Honey-Nut Cheerios, and I thought I’d pick up a case of the High Efficiency Charmin and some of those moist wipes that they sell as a companion. Perhaps Brian would be able to use the garbage can liners that others will be bringing if the moist wipes won’t flush. Or, if enough fans respond with bottled water, he could poor that in the pipes and force them through the system. I do wonder if he wants us to put the items in the offering plate or drop them by the table?

    If I were him, my next post would be: “if anyone, anywhere, and at anytime has any idea of how we could score a hit song that would sell enough copies to keep this bus stocked so that I never have to get on here and (literally) show my ass again, please send me a private message. And, if you get in touch with me before you share it with Ernie Hasse, I’ll give you a free autographed copy of the live album that features ‘Long as I Got King Jesus’. That, you might recall, was a MAJOR hit for us. In the meantime, to clear up any confusion, the RV. toilet paper does come in decorative prints. Our bathroom, for those who’ve asked, is done in blues.”

  74. NG wrote:

    Thought of something else: Who owns the group Brian Free & Assurance? I don’t know. If it is just Brian Free as a sole owner who pays the other members a salary, isn’t it his responsibility to provide neccessities on the bus such as toilet paper?

    If Brian asks fans for supplies like toilet paper, doesn’t that benefit him and not the group members? If the fans instead chose to give the individual members gift cards for restaurants, then that would help the members but not Brian.

    This is speculation and Brian is certainly welcome to clarify the situation.

  75. steveO wrote:

    #63 perfect.

    #64 I am not justifying the toilet paper or agreeing with any group asking for anything. The point I was trying to make was not every artist is rich and/or its not always what it looks like.

    By the way Idaho is a beautiful place if I were you I would hold on to that land till the economy gets better then sell it. Don’t let one bad experience spoil all gospel music if you don’t like the begging don’t give.

    #65 1099’s are borderline illegal (look it up), but just increase the salary and take away the benefits.

    “”"My question is this: In your (well documented) ledger, the “ministry” is losing $700 per month, how are they able to keep “ministering” ? ! How many months would you estimate they will be able to say on the battlefield for the good Lord ? How many consecutive months do you suppose Wallet/McDonald’s/Coke could stay in business without a profit ? How many consecutive months/years has BFA been ministering to us all ? I’m just asking…?”"”

    Its just a estamit_ surely you are smart enuff to realize that artists will loose a little some weeks and make a little other weeks.

    By my own admission I don’t know brian or his business, I was bassing all off that info on the post that said he was making thousands every day.

    “”"”The SG artists in top tier groups do much better than you portray. Bus Drivers, Sound Techs, and Office Personnel make more than your example listed for the group manager”"”"”

    Really!!! You guys don’t have a clue do you. Some might but- look around, why do some group owners not have insurance, why are their so few quartets left, and yes lots of groups used to sell a lot of cd,s but NOBODY does now.

    This was all said not to agree with what Brian said but to squash the posts that are saying artists are taking advantage of people.

  76. pink wrote:

    I think avery should fleece his interns for $5 and offer it as a prize to the first FAN to get a picture of someone dropping off a pkg of RV toilet paper at a BFA concert. ;D

  77. irishlad wrote:

    Well Bonesy boy you seem to get it…and so does that other gentleman,scholar and fine judge of cheap wine BS too,but hey,he’ll have to sharpen up on his bass singing skills because JP is hot on his heels.:) Oh aye CVH gets me too,but he’s a SmtAF yankee. Love you all.!

  78. irishlad wrote:

    Bones, the only time i saw LP cry was the time he was on a real high giving it his best, James B egging him on and milking the crowd like nobody could and the bold London jumped off the stage into the rapturous, applauding crowd with tears streaming down his face…sadly for him it wasn’t any thing spiritual..more mundane, he twisted one of his balls on the way down :-/

  79. irishlad wrote:

    Ok, I’m sorry for using the B word ,for all you sensitive souls out there “nut” would have been more appropriate.

  80. TommyJohnCulpepper wrote:

    I wonder if ‘ole Brian would like some squash to cook in the kitchen of his RV. I’d feel a little better taking some squash from the garden than taking a roll of Charmin. If I were going to ask for stuff, I’d put in an order for some homegrown vegetables, homemade jelly, coconut pie and some Eight O’Clock coffee. If I were feeling frisky, I might put in a request for some egg custard.

    Good gravy, I’m gonna have to start a singing group or go hug on Thelma Jane. I’m getting hungry.

  81. Jerrmy wrote:

    Someone will correct me if I’m wrong, but from my understanding BFA is one of the few groups that will come to a church for an offering only. No flat.

  82. CVH wrote:

    I’m not kidding, we all have to get together somewhere for a few drinks (of the refreshing adult variety or not, your preference) and have these conversations in the same room at the same time. Hilarious! I’ll buy the first round.

    Bones (#68), awesome…

    irishlad (#77), thanks…I think…

    To turn the conversation around, why don’t groups put their images and logo ON toilet paper and sell 12-paks at the product table? Or better yet, put a rival group’s picture on it. Then write a song with the word “flush” in it and every time they sing that lyric the crowd waves a roll in the air, kind of like Bill and the mini-flashlights.

    I’m here to help.

  83. More wrote:

    BFA does not generally charge for tickets because they do not want a lost soul to stay out of one of their concerts because of money. I have been to many of their programs and never paid one dollar for a ticket.

    You people are so dumb…for real. May God have mercy on you.

  84. lovelife wrote:

    Well, we had BFA at our church a few yrs. ago, they were so “blasted” loud and wouldn’t turn it down so people got up and left… And they were guaranteed an amount plus love offering. I can assure you they get a flat amt. Maybe not what they ask, but, they get a guarantee.

  85. More wrote:

    Of course they have to pay their bills, lovelife. That response avoided the fact that they don’t charge for tickets. Would you become an independent contractor and just work for whatever the homeowner felt like paying you that day?

  86. CG wrote:

    #75, 1099s are, in fact, NOT illegal (not even borderline), however, the improper use by a business owner to avoid paying taxes/ui insurance/etc IS - I don’t have to look it up, I work for a state agency that investigates their use every day…

  87. sunshine wrote:

    A new quartet “canton junction”

  88. steveO wrote:


    So you know that getting someone who is self employed (1099) to do the some job over 30 times in a single calendar year (contract labor) is wrong.

    The only way that it would work is if each individual promoter sent the group 4 different 1099’s for every concert.

    If they are working for a group manager it is not the legal way to do it.

  89. Bones wrote:

    OK, Joy was married to Donny. Reba ws married to Landy. Now, Joy is married to Landy, Reba is married to Donny. Just Soap Opera stuff.

  90. CG wrote:

    #88, you are EXACTLY right, it would be (most likely) improper to treat that (regular)member of the group as 1099, however, it is done frequently/regularly in the music biz !

  91. Aaron Swain wrote:

    Got a bunch of videos last night of Gold City with Jerry Pelfrey. Take a look:

  92. steveO wrote:


    I would also like to clarify that I may have been a little strong in using the word illegal.

  93. Bones wrote:

    Whatever happened to Buick?

  94. Dontkikamoocow wrote:

    Just listened to #91’s Gold City Clips. Very impressive. Jerry Pelphry (sp?) seems to be a great lead singer! I think this group could gel very quickly.

  95. CVH wrote:

    Bones (#93),

    I think GM discontinued him.

  96. BUICK wrote:

    Since this is an open thread, I want to ask this question: I know that Libby Perry is not tall but is she officially a “little person” (pc for midget or dwarf) - or is she just vertically challenged? Maybe everyone else already knows this but I do not. Not intending to be insensitive, just curious.

  97. BUICK wrote:

    #93 - still here, lurking

  98. Bones wrote:

    Buick, She’s short, her father was short, I don’t think it is anything else. She is in proportion.

  99. Logan Pettis wrote:

    #96 & 98….She’s cute as a button that’s what she is. Yes its well documented my crush on Libbi Stuffle. ;o)

  100. Leslie wrote:

    Seems like #85 might be a part of Brian (and others) problem. Not paying one dollar to see them?? No wonder the boy’s asking for toilet paper! How many ‘MORE’ of you are there?

  101. Sensible wrote:

    Does anyone remember Jerry “Pumpkin” when he sang with The Rowlands? Just curious. That was years ago.

  102. Bones wrote:

    BFA next hit, “When the Roll is Called Up Yonder”.

  103. Linda Dillon wrote:

    There are guidelines on what constitues independent contractor or 1099. One of them is that the person work their own schedule and not be supervised - told when to come to work, what to do, etc. That, I would think, would negate the independent contractor status for most gospel singers.

  104. cynical one wrote:

    If I understood the BFA post correctly, he did not ASK for anything. He said he was responding questions from fans who wanted to do something tangilbe. Not sure there’s anything wrong with that.

    Maybe the fans should have just put an extra $10 or so in the offering plate, and then this discussion wouldn’t have happened.

    Joy or Reba? Joy is the better singer, and MUCH prettier. Since I don’t know either of them personally, I can’t speak to their personalities. I don’t know which guy got the better deal. Nor which of these ladies got the better deal, either.

  105. irishlad wrote:

    Re: TR..could it be that the average SG “super group” are so full of pretentious sh*t that copious amounts of TR are required? :)

  106. cynical one wrote:

    #85 — Other than Gaither, southern gospel artists don’t decide whether the concert is ticketed or offering. The concert promoter decides that. So to say BFA doesn’t charge admission is not totally correct. They reach an agreement with the promoter (in many cases, that’s a church), and that promoter has generally already decided up-front, whether it’s going to be a paid ticket or a free-will offering.

    In the case of Gaither, his organization is the promoter. I’m not aware of any other artist in sgm who does their own promotion like that.

    Maybe more artists could see the success Gaither has, if they’d follow his business model? Or maybe all the other sgm artists are happy with status quo?

  107. KermitTheHermit wrote:

    At least Brian didn’t ask for any DD batteries for the boys in the bus. If he did, we would have an entirely different conversation. As for me, I could use some milk, eggs, regular toilet paper, and Wal-Mart gift cards…. for those of you who didn’t ask.

  108. Tad Kirkland wrote:

    1. Keith and Kristyn Getty

    2. A revival of older tunes done well.

    3. Yes, sin matters and we’re all to obsessed with each other’s sins.

    4. I believe Mark is the only one who could keep it going at the level it is.

    5. 70’s Imperials


    Piano only or tracks? Totally depends on the style of the music and the player. Preferably a live versatile band. If I had to choose between the 2, probably tracks for versatility, but I think there’s room for both.


    mix and match–let each member bring their individuality to the table.

    Joy, though Reba rocked it back in the day. I think Joy’s voice has held up better and that Donny is crazy. And for the record, it was not a spouse-swap. Joy and Lanny did not choose to be single.

    Cracker Barrel

  109. TommyJohnCulpepper wrote:

    Have you ever looked at the price of RV toilet paper? It’s not exactly cheap. I told some friends of mine down at the mechanic shop that the Gospel singers are now asking for toilet paper.

    We all agreed that they need about six weeks of boot camp training with the Marines. Toilet paper will be the least of their worries. I guess their next request will be silk Fruit of the Looms trimmed in lace.

  110. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    1-ply toilet paper is the bathroom correct term.
    You find in the Walmart in the Toilet Paper Department at the end of the toilet paper shelf. It cost less there.
    Buy RV toilet paper in the RV Dept, it cost more.
    It break down faster and and get longer use out of a RV dumpster tank.

    Do you own an private in ground septic septic system? 1-ply paper will prolong the life of your system.

    Check the facts:

  111. TommyJohnCulpepper wrote:

    I sometimes wonder why the singers buy such expensive buses, especially when their costs are so high that they have to ask for tp and batteries. I’ve seen Brian Free here in our town, and that bus of his is a really nice ride. That usually means expensive.

  112. Bones wrote:

    I think these conversations have gone to the toilet.

  113. irishlad wrote:

    111 TJC I must say that was a straight from the heart statement ..did you think that one up all by ypurself?..only kidding pal. :)

  114. More wrote:

    #100, Get a life…last time I saw them I put $50 in the offering plate. I simply meant that I’ve never been CHARGED a dollar to see them.

  115. SteveSmith wrote:

    #73 I don’t see where anyone answered you about the batteries; they are for the microphones. Those mikes goe through batteries fairly fast.

    Although Brian may be the only one who actually lists the groups’s needs, I promise that many, many of the groups are beholded to benefactors who, among other things, co-sign for and/or make payments on the buses.

  116. CVH wrote:

    Tad (#108),

    Nicely put re: Joy and Landy. Agree on the Gettys - great modern hymnwriters.

    So, with all the talk about 1099’s and RV toilet paper, another question. If a group is only making it because of “quiet help” the average fan isn’t aware of, do you consider them successful?

    I can’t imagine any top-line secular group doing that. Sure, the economies of scale are different for SG, but the principles are the same. It’s a business, not ministry (or I suppose you could say, the business OF ministry). Is one of the reasons SG struggles because there are so few positive business models to follow?

  117. TommyJohnCulpepper wrote:


    Yep, I though that one up all by my lonesome. I think I’m gonna sign up to be a Gospel singer.

    Travel all over the country, see beautiful places, get nice offerings, wear nice suits, get your toilet paper provided, go on cruises, sign autographs, have people buy your meals, have fans pawing at you, get a little sugar on the side and act righteous at the same time. What was I thinking when I joined the Marines? I missed the boat on that one.

  118. steveO wrote:


    OK it was funny the first time— but your last post showed that you are just desperate for attention.

    “Travel all over the country, see beautiful places, get nice offerings, wear nice suits, get your toilet paper provided, go on cruises, sign autographs, have people buy your meals, have fans pawing at you, get a little sugar on the side and act righteous at the same time”

    I bet artists would find your last post insulting. I don’t think you missed the boat by joining the marines (I think everybody should) but you apparently missed the discipline and restraint you could have learned.

  119. DD wrote:

    Any bus I have ever been on has a “No #2 rule.” BF&A must be pretty loose with the rules. Next time you’re at a concert go up to the boys at the product table and ask, “Does your bus have a no #2 rule?” I guarantee 90+% of the all male groups will say, “Yes.”

    As for batteries, BF&A do not use wireless mics, but rather wired mics (sound better, ask BF himself). They DO use in-ear monitors that depending on the brand use either AA or 9v batteries.

    Just to clear up some technical issues with your arguments.

  120. steveO wrote:

    Sorry — #117 not #177 that would be way to many comments.

  121. quartet-man wrote:

    A business model can be good and useful, but you not only have to have that, but also skill and desirability of what you have to offer. Even with that, you have to have customers willing to pay a reasonable amount for what you offer.

  122. TommyJohnCulpepper wrote:


    Over the years, I’ve learned that people don’t like to hear the truth about their idols.

  123. Les Pratt wrote:

    There are many needs in a traveling ministry. With the economy the way it is, it is just making it harder for any traveling ministry to stay in the black. If helping pay for toilet paper would help a struggling MINISTRY, keep their bus rolling to the next MINISTRY opportunity, then I’m all in. The life of a singing minister is not an easy one. Sending money to a ministry is supporting something that may give the opportunity to save a soul at the next stop/singing. Your efforts will be rewarded! If a group misuses those funds, then they will be held accountable! Let’s support the true “Ministers of the Gospel” that are still out there singing our beloved Southern Gospel Music. Thanks, and God Bless!


  124. Brady wrote:

    Well, I just had to comment on all this negativity about BFA and his comments on FB. If I recall correctly, this is not the first time that Brian has put such a post out there, and if some of you would research it you would find that the reason is genuine–fans want to bring the groups things all the time as a gesture of love and support. It is a business, yes, but it’s also a ministry, and there are plenty of caring folks out there who want to do something for the group besides bombard them with cookies, caeks, pies, and other sweets. The health conscious groups have got to be weary of trying to stay fit with all the desserts people make and bring to their bus—no matter how well-intended the gifts of food are. And some fans who travel 4 or 5 or more hours to see a group can’t always bring a gift of food and it be fresh or edible by the time they get there. And if it were me personally, I would be a bit scared of eating so much homemade food made by people about whose cooking/cleanliness habits I don’t really know. SO with all those thoughts in mind, I think that when fans ask what they can do besides food, I have no problem with items that the groups use and have to purchase themselves–such as batteries, paper products, bottled water, sharpie pens, even gum, mints, throat lozenges, first aid supplies, and coupons or menus to local restaurants or places of interest in the area. A well-thought-out gift basket with these items would be a heartfelt gesture and a blessing to the group both personally and financially. And because people have asked what they can do, I see no problem in Brian or anyone else for that matter letting them know what needs exist, especially when the fans are the ones asking to help.

  125. More wrote:

    #122 have you ever ridden on a bus with a cramped bunk for any extended amount of time? Away from your family? Obviously not. I don’t think I would do it, and I’m just grateful there are people crazy enough (willing enough, dedicated enough) to do so for our ministry and enjoyment.

  126. TommyJohnCulpepper wrote:


    No, I haven’t traveled as a singer on a bus. But that career, like any other, is a choice a person makes. I’ve never heard of any singer being forced against their will to sing and travel on a bus.

    I like the music, but I’m not going to pretend that these people don’t enjoy what they do. Don’t let them fool you. If they didn’t enjoy it, they wouldn’t do it.

  127. Bones wrote:

    Some people are running their groups on credit cards.

  128. Kyle wrote:

    Gaither tickets range anywhere from around $30 up to $90. You show me a single non-Gaither SG artist who can draw $30 per ticket. Hell, find me one who can draw $20 per ticket.

    What is the standard venue for a SG quartet? Churches. For a quartet to make $2000 for a performance, they’d have to have at least 200 people in attendance pay at least $10 a ticket just to break even. If a church could bring in 200 people per service regularly, they most likely would have their own in-house praise band, and they could simply use the offering (of any amount) to put back into the church.

    The difference is that Gaither not only has quality product, but he also seems to grasp the idea of “supply and demand.” He does about 100 dates a year, and spreads them out so he’s not playing the same region night after night. If he plays in my hometown of Cincinnati, odds are, he’s not gonna be within 100 miles of Cincinnati again for at least a year. That means if you live within that radius, you better make the trip to Cincinnati to see him, or you’ll just have to wait until next year (or NQC).

    I have seen some “top tier” groups play within 50 miles of Cincinnati as many as 5 or 6 times a year. That’s once every 2 1/2 months. If I can’t see a certain group in May, I can go in July and see them. What’s the rush?

  129. irishlad wrote:

    My goodness 127 posts,is this a record for a thread that hasn’t mentioned or commented on someone who bats for the other team? Refreshing and quite enjoyable.

  130. irishlad wrote:

    This is for Soli and a few other Thomas’, I just caught a clip of Canton Junction, four very well known (fairly) young guys,who I’ll not waste time naming belting out an old time classic with verve and a fair amount of joyous glee, and no matching suits either. If guys that young can show so much enthusiasm for a so called dieing genre …where’s the logical conclusion that in fact it is? PS the Ryan Seaton Qt are doing exactly the same thing,their business model?.. Ehss except on a low profile basis.

  131. canaan sebastian wrote:

    Whats interesting to me is that the person who is posting under the name MORE isnt letting us know who he is.Which always means he has something to hide,and that their is a clear agenda going on.

  132. canaan sebastian wrote:

    The kicker is that they beg.PERIOD.They tell people that if they gave $20 it would not be enough;THAT is disgusting,unprofessional and ridiculously inappropriate.Ever heard of the scripture that says –”God will provide”?? I guess not.I suppose imposing sympathy through fear and misrepresenting yourself as an artist in financial crisis isnt just on TV anymore.Funny thing is,those TV preachers always had the nicest suits and watches.BFA has the nicest Bus.Go figure…..Now,just because someone offers you something,doesnt mean you take it.If someone came up to me,and offered to pay my bills or something similar,because they are blinded by their adoration for me,it would be my responsibility as a human being AND a christian to say no.If I did allow it,it would be a private one time thing.I wouldnt take advantage of many fans offering it,and then publically post it on the largest social networking site in human history.Once again Mr MORE(whoever you are in your hiding) a BUS of that expense is absurd and unnecessary.THATS their problem.Can you imagine Keith Green ever doing this??? Of course not……@107–he did in fact ask for batteries.

  133. More wrote:

    LOL - what kind of name is Canaan Sebastian anyway? Let’s see your SSN and DOB and we’ll do a background check to see if you’re qualified to post here…or maybe you’re one of those men in black glass from the FED!!!

  134. DontSqueezeTheTenor wrote:

    Re #129

    Alex Rodriguez

  135. steveO wrote:

    #132 “The lord will provide” yes he will, so why don’t you quit your job and pray that a house payment shows up on your doorstep.

    People like you fall into the idiots of the world category.

    When someone offers to give you something or pay a bill for you TAKE IT you should be a cheerful when you give and do not be too proud for someone to bless you with a gift.

  136. GospelMusicFan wrote:

    Do we have a Guidance Counselor in the house?
    We need one here!

  137. Soli Deo Gloria wrote:

    Irishlad: John Hagee’s house quartet? Really?? The house quartet for a televangelist whore who is as wide as he is tall and teaches that Jesus did not come to be the Messiah is your evidence that southern gospel isn’t losing relevance in younger demographics?

    I’ll admit that the the clip (with the exception of Jr. Hagee) isn’t that bad. And Tim Duncan has always been a freaking ton on bass. But call me when they’re outselling the McKameys.

  138. Bones wrote:


  139. BUICK wrote:

    Soli, what does John Hagee’s girth or weight have to do with the sound of Canton Junction? Heck, there are a ton (so to speak) of obese singers in groups we all love…and John Hagee isn’t even in this group. And John Hagee’s theology?? I didn’t agree with a lot of Rex Humbard’s teaching but the Cathedral Quartet wasn’t too bad a group. I watched the clip (a few times) and thought Matt Hagee did a fine job on tenor. I’d buy a ticket to hear these guys and I w ill buy their CD when it’s released. On the other hand, I wouldn’t use a McKameys’ CD for a coaster or a frisbee.

  140. canaan sebastian wrote:

    The scripture I referenced about God providing was taken out of context,obviously by a couple theologians in their own minds anyway.The context is,that you do not BEG for money while presenting ministry.THAT alone makes you publically look like a panicking christian or worse,a tv evangelist.God also says that he helps those who help themselves,so obviously quitting my job,and putting all the burden on God would be ridiculously sinful in his eyes.You dont take advantage of fans.Plain and simple.It IS cut and dry.How do you think these responses have been so numerous in agreement?? Because its not complicated.You call me an idiot of the world SteveO,which is fine.Elementary playground rhetoric,but whatever.You DO NOT allow someone to pay a bill for you if it is well within your means to pay for it,ESPECIALLY if you are obviously more well off then the common southern gospel concert goer.If you do take advantage,then youre a scumball.Im not saying YOU are a scumball,but I certainly hope you have NO public forum to express your distorted out of context assessment of christianity,and what IS and what ISNT appropriate for someone in a public ministry to do

  141. canaan sebastian wrote:

    …and Mr. MORE,nice attempt at deflection.But alas,your still hiding

  142. steveO wrote:

    “You DO NOT allow someone to pay a bill for you if it is well within your means to pay for it,ESPECIALLY if you are obviously more well off then the common southern gospel concert goer”

    Totally agree!! The idiot comment came from the fact that you are assuming that they are better off than the concert goer.

    If someone is taking advantage of a situation that is obviously wrong, but the point that is being made is in fact a lot of artists are not.

    Also, no offense as I was not literally calling you a idiot (I was referring to the idiotic process of thinking).

  143. irishlad wrote:

    58 NG,I’m not saying it just because i’m Anglo-Irish but that was a very fine article about the Imperials,i’m familiar with said publication but hadn’t read that particular one.I must say i thought i knew just about all there was to know about the Imps,but happily i came away even more informed.Thanks a bunch pal. :)

  144. irishlad wrote:

    137 Soli just caught your post, and the only sentence that i agree with is the one that starts with;” I’ll admit that.. and finishes with.. ton of a freaking bass”, but not the part in parentheses.I couldn’t hear anything wrong with him.

  145. Alan wrote:

    Re: Soli’s post (#137): Mr. Hagee’s claim that Jesus did not come to be the Messiah of Israel stems from his definition of the word “Messiah”. To him, it is a political deliverer. In his book “In Defense Of Israel”, that belief and interpretation of the term “Messiah” is behind his premise, that Jesus didn’t come to deliver Israel from the oppressive Roman rule. I completely agree with that point. But the problem is that “Christ” is a synonym for “Messiah”, and in the Gospels (e.g., John 1:41 and John 4:25-26) He is clearly called the Messiah. Also, both Jesus and His disciples clearly called Him(self) the Messiah; Jesus did so in His answer to Caiaphas, the High Priest, in Mark 14:61-61. Mr. Hagee bases his definition of Messiah on Acts 1:16, when His disciples asked Him if He had come to restore Israel to their political power. So, while you can see that using his own definition, Mr. Hagee is correct, he very much muddies the waters given the large preponderence of NT Scriptures that are crystal clear in attesting that The Lord Jesus was indeed the Christ.

    That being said, the clip referenced shows likely a pickup quartet, singing on a Sunday morning in church, with three of the four voices being veterans of SG and a tenor who’s quite adequate, and they’re as good as many of the quartets making a living on the road. I enjoyed it!

  146. Logan Pettis wrote:

    This thread brings to mind a song by a former teacher of mine named Mr. Stephen Hill that asks “Why Can’t All God’s Children Get Along”?

  147. tusk molaar wrote:

    #140– God also says that he helps those who help themselves…
    Um… that’s not scripture.

  148. irishlad wrote:

    145 Alan coming from the sort N.ireland steeped in Biblical teaching that you know I come from, you will realise I agree 100%, but all you did pal was muddy the waters even more…it’s a shame really,sadly few will get you :(

  149. Menendez wrote:

    It was my understanding that when Brian got the Kingsley Coach, that he had acquired it through some sort of an endorsement-type agreement. I’m guessing that meant that he was to ’show it’ whenever the folks at Kingsley (or maybe the dealership where he got it) requested that he do so. I’ve heard of several other groups who have done similar things with their coaches, an then some others with their sound systems. That’s not unreasonable. Heck, I’d even say there’s one particular group that has an endorsement with Kripsy Kreme Donuts.

  150. More wrote:

    Canaan, so are you my friend. ;)

  151. Bones wrote:

    Singers love the attention. They make people think they are their friend. All they want is what they can get from them. They are acting if you think that they like you.

  152. canaan sebastian wrote:

    #147–2 Thessalonians 3:10–For even when we were with you, we gave you this rule: “The one who is unwilling to work shall not eat.”TRANSLATION—–Put your shoulder to the wheel. God isn’t pleased with laziness. In that sense, Paul is saying, “God helps those who help themselves.”———-That is exactly the context I used above.Read your Bible…..Now sure,it doesnt say exactly that God helps those who help themselves,but it is clearly not an inappropriate translation.If we believe God is in the the very fabric of the way the world works and he made it that way,then it is a clear cut demonstration of “God helps those who help themselves”—-Or possibly better put–God created a world where if you are lazy and dont work,you will suffer;so therefor he created a environment where if you DO work,then your in the most optimal situation in his will that you could be in that regard-thats not complicated……..SteveO,I appreciate your clarification and I apologize for my combative words.I think by in large we could agree that the topline artists do indeed sit in the better off bracket then the white hairs however.If the fans were offering new cars or a new bus or year long gas cards etc,then it would be a different story.But batteries,toilet paper,paper towels?? Ugh…….I will also state(possibly unpopularly) that a quartet riding around in a Coach,semi-Bus,or premium Bus is about much more than just a comfort thing.Its a being convinced in your own importance as an entertainer thing.Youre convinced in your own view that you are a celebrity….To then come out and beg the audience and say that 20 dollars isnt enough because of your gas bill?? Not only are you totally ignoring your own lavious,unnecessary expense, but you take it further by trying to make those who adore you as a ministry and entertainer feel sorry for you.I dont know exactly what that is called,but its not cool in my eyes.

  153. irishlad wrote:

    128 Kyle, i mentioned to you once that i enjoyed the sonmen and that your bro was a fine tenor to boot.Well i like them even more now after seeing a good quality clip on youtube at the NQC mainstage.The qt as whole were excellent,great stage presence and a nice few touches to “Life will be sweeter” Aaron the bass is maturing too, the only thing , without any one telling me is, he’s got George Younce on the brain….you can tell by his mannerisims :) nothing wrong with that,at least he’s developing the chops to match!.Well done boys.

  154. More wrote:

    “If the fans were offering new cars or a new bus or year long gas cards etc,then it would be a different story.”

    Now that honestly makes no sense at all. It is ok to accept a brand new car, but not something smaller the fans are ASKING to give?

    DIAGNOSIS: I’m going to make a diagnosis here: You were at one of their concerts. You heard them explain that there is significant diesel expense involved in driving ANY bus to a date, and expense in supporting 4 men and their families. You did not put the suggested amount into the offering plate. You went home feeling a little guilty, and justified it by telling yourself “they have a nice bus” and “they’re taking advantage of us fans.” Now, you feel it is your God-given calling to go on slimy message boards like this one and proclaim your revelation.

    DISCHARGE ADVICE: Stop bashing, and go hear someone else that charges you a ticket price.

  155. Tommy wrote:

    The comments regarding Gospel Singers riding around in the same luxary as a pop singer catch me as odd. Do you really think that most groups have a million dollar bus? Not the case. They have used busses that average ariund 150K. The average full time group spends 180-200 days a year on the road. Why would you want them to travel in a van. Do you live in a van? Dont use the excuse that they are in the ministry so they should suffer for the Lord. God calls all of us to ministry, they just use singing as their way to do it. Why do you feel the need to attack them for not living like homeless people? A bus has way less room than the average home. Try living in one and tell me if its a luxery. Second, if you are so against them why do you follow the genre. How can a Christian sit here and attack people trying their best to reach people? If you spent half as much time trying to serve God as you do online hurting those that do, we’d see more people want to be in church. I wish each of you could walk in their shoes. Sell your single wide and hit the road. Its just sad how pathetic theses forums have become.

  156. eddyray wrote:

    The rich and the poor alike, still need something in which to wipe. The rich with all their houses and land still don’t want to use their hand. The beggar in the lowest of slums, still need something to clean up with after they are done, and all tho’ some may own or work on a farm, all need a few extra rolls of charm! It Happens, so my dear friend please keep this in mind. Flush it, and double check the ply.

  157. irishlad wrote:

    156..’The poor doth use leaves and stones’ The book of Numbers chptr #2.

  158. canaan sebastian wrote:


  159. Bones wrote:

    #155 None of that has anything to do with TP. You’ve gone from preaching to not makin’sense, No one said anything about ridin’ in vans and sellin’ single wides or anything else. If they didn’t have buses they may stink when they get places.We all have enough sense to know houses are bigger than buses. How do you think so many relationships are formed on buses.

  160. canaan sebastian wrote:

    Mr MORE I will humor you and teach you what the word context means at the same time…….When I said–“If the fans were offering new cars or a new bus or year long gas cards etc,then it would be a different story” the context OBVIOUSLY was that I said topline southern gospel groups were much more well off than the white hair fans,who are giving toilet paper and batteries.If the fans were giving them a new Bus or a year long gas card,then yes,OBVIOUSLY it would show that THOSE fans were more well off.I didnt say anything about it being OK in either instance….THEN,out of a wildly presumptuous arrogance,you make a DIAGNOSIS?? Who are you,the christian Nostradamus?? First of all, clinically speaking,a DIAGNOSIS requires research and evidence.NONE of which you have.A bruised ego?? Much more likely.I bet your in the group BFA,otherwise,why hide your identity,and be so offended?? My name is Canaan Sebastian.Do you want my birth certificate?? Not sure how Im hiding,but youve been wildly irrational so far,so I wont humor that.Ive NEVER cared about their Bus.Still dont.However,I do make a distinction about it when the owner of the group accepts such a lavish expense and then plays on the sympathies of concert goers about how difficult the gas is.So do the grand majority of the responders here as well

  161. canaan sebastian wrote:

    TOMMY,No I do not think all gospel singers have million dollar buses.But we are talking about BFA,who has the nicest Bus in the business.Why would I want them to travel in a van?? Never said I did.I just dont want to hear Brian Free beg from the stage,while having such a ridiculously lavish Bus himself.I wont use the excuse that those without a bus are suffering for the Lord,because I dont think its suffering.In fact,I KNOW its not.I know at least 4 groups who travel full time in vans,that LOVE and ADORE God and what they get to do for him.They dont complain about it.I was in a rock band years ago and we travelled all over the country in a van,and it was the greatest experience of my youth,no doubt.Do you really think you cant deal with travelling in a van as a gospel group?? Really?? For the 5th time,Im NOT against them.I LOVE the group,but I hate the begging.Ever heard “Love the sinner,hate the sin”??? It applies here….CORRECTION-if ministers didnt beg,there would be loads of people who are currently sitting at home on sundays,that would now go to church.CORRECTION–Im not against people trying to reach people for the Lord.Im against ministers trying to feed off of sympathies to reach people to take advantage of their pocketbook,and to ask those who wanted to help publically to go ahead and do it thru a mass post on a social website.Its classless and unprofessional.CORRECTION-we dont all live in single-wide trailers and your arrogant assumption that we do shows me that you ,just like Mr MORE have a serious problem with entitlement. Not to mention,a very very unchristian like name calling rhetoric.Good luck with your walk.

  162. Braxton Lyric Shaw wrote:

    Interesting…..I have to agree with Canaan.I love Brain Free.He is the only gospel singer in a topline group that I have ever seen talk openly about abortion and many other forms of godlessness.He is as bold as it gets and watching him preach in between songs is awesome.But i saw the post on his facebook and it also made me cringe.I also have every project he has EVER put out,but it drives me crazy when I hear him do the 20 dollar per person in the bucket isnt enough thing.I have sat with pastors AND promoters during their concerts,who also want to pull their hair out when he does that.Now,as far as the person posting under MORE,you do indeed seem agenda driven and a bit out of touch.I booked dates with the Beckie Simmons agency,and I dont need your opinion on what groups make and what they dont,because I KNOW.I have booked dates that had $5,000 gurantees for an artist who had 20 of those same guarantees in ONE month and a quartet who had at least $2,500 on 17-20 dates a month.I have also watched the boys in Crystal River travel in a van and LOVE every minute of it.The person above at the beginning who made it out like these topline groups are losing money is WAAAAAAAAY out of touch.I know about the hotels that are thrown in,the upfront guarantees,how to get the guarantees,what the contracts say word for word and how hard,we as booking agents work to get those upfront costs.Now it isnt really anybodys business what anyone is making in ANY profession for the most part,but it also isnt appropriate for very successful groups(and trust me,Brian Free is one of the smartest and most “successful” business men around much less in southern gospel) to play poor mouth in a church when you have a 50 foot treasure that your driving.Even if it is the most sincere place that Brian is coming from,it never comes off that way.Do I still go see them?? Yup.Used to drive Beckie crazy because they werent one of our groups.Do I anxiously await every new project?? Yup.Does the begging drive me insane?? Yup….I am friends with his son Ricky Free on facebook as well as many others in the business,but that doesnt mean everything has to be sugarcoated,or I should feel the need to hide my identity,so I ask whoever this MORE person is to do the same.Really,what do you have to hide man??.Thats not healthy and its not unchristian to analyze and comment.

  163. Braxton Lyric Shaw wrote:

    BRIAN FREE,not Brain–LOL

  164. JD wrote:

    70’s Oak Ridge Boys or 70’s
    Imperials?…70’s Oaks if they didnt take their jackets off and throw them around
    J.D. or George?….Depends on the song
    Piano only or tracks?….Roger Bennett
    NQC or Dove Awards?…..NQC 1964 Ahhh
    Matching suits or mix ‘n match?..Surprise me
    Reba or Joy?…Do I have another choice besides these two.
    Cracker Barrel or Denny’s?….CB

  165. tusk molaar wrote:

    #162– so the guy who said top line groups are losing money was way out of line. So what does this southern gospel artist grossing $100,000 a month that you talk about NET after expenses? I know it’s none of my business– but you brought it up!

  166. Tommy wrote:

    Canaan…Good luck with the walk? Are you serious? Look at 90% of your posts. They have such a negative feel that I honestly didnt think it was a Christian posting on here. Here is a question that I ask you to answer honestly. You are so against Mr. Free replying to someones request to know what they could use and feel it your “calling” to put the big time guys in their place. When you go to a concert, do you put a fair offering in or you the one who places the one dollar bill in? Brian Free has the nicest bus in the industry.CORRECTION: The Truck they use is a small fraction of the cost that a new Prevost cost. They are somewhere between an 18 wheeler and a RV as far as ride goes as well. He is making a smart financial decison not one based on vanity. It just seems as if you spend more time attacking them than anything. If you have a problem with how he approaches this than write to him. Don’t blast him on a website. Good luck with your walk.

  167. More wrote:

    1. I’m not, and never have been in BFA or any other professional group in any genre, for that matter. I am a fan of this music. I am a fan of many groups. I don’t like to see them bashed. Maybe I’m oversensitive.

    2. My diagnosis was correct. And I stand by it.

    3. I don’t appreciate you calling any group - Legacy V for all I care - “sinners” (see post 161) because they relay their expenses to the audience. You might disagree with their approach, but sin? Get real.

  168. LarryS wrote:

    Just gotta throw my 2 cents in…

    I’m not sure of what your definition of “lavish” is, but BFA’s bus is NOT lavish. Yeah, it’s a nice ride, but it’s certainly not posh or luxurious. It’s comfortable and dependable.

    I know that may not exactly be the point, but I just wanted to clarify that one thing.

  169. Braxton Lyric Shaw wrote:

    165—Take away 15% for the booking agent,and youre at 85,000.if you have,hypothetically speaking of course ;),a guitar player and bass player,piano player and drummer and soundman and tech,and you pay them each 1,000 a week(most likely under the table),that takes 20,000 away and you are now at 65,000.Hotels are free in the booking contracts,paid for by the venues, so living expenses are next to nothing besides food and gas.600 dollars in gas per gig(and that number is HIGH).It only costs a regular car 180 dollars in diesel fuel from nashville to pittsburgh AND BACK.Gigs are set-up so they are in an IN-Route direction,so as not be traveling 500 miles between gigs.So, lets say 600 still for a high number.600 per gig,20 gigs,thats 12,000 dollars a month in gas,which brings total net down to 57,000.Lets say,once again to be as extravagant as possible,they ALL ate 3 steak dinners a day(20 bucks,the whole band/soundguy/artist).That would be 360 dollars a day in food cost,assuming it comes out of the Gig fund.360 dollars a day,25 days on the road(the extra 5 days on the 20 gis are for days off here and there)and youre at 10,500 a month in food expense,which takes you down to 47,500 NET..Roughly Thats 1,532 dollars NET everyday of the month,which would be 559,180 NET a year,without merchandise added in,or royalties from songwriting and record sales from stores…..I may be missing a thing or 2,thats not right off the top of my head,but you get the idea.

  170. Braxton Lyric Shaw wrote:

    So if you take that business model and slash the upfront by 90 percent,you have a quartet average of 2,000 a night.That means even if you paid your quartet members 1,000 a week(rare),then you as an owner walk away with 59,000 net BEFORE royalties,record store sales,and concert merchandise table sales.Their NOT starving and they shouldnt be.They shouldnt beg either though.They do a great service for the Lord and for christians.

  171. steveO wrote:

    Braxton Lyric Shaw, you are so far off its not funny. Not every group is losing money but I will tell you that no group (except Big Bill) is making 1,000,000 a year.

    Also, all this talk about the 1,000,000 bus __ someone stated earlier that most of the buses on the road today in gospel music are in the 50k-200k and I think that’s about right. Keep in mind also all these buses were bought when diesel was about 1.95pg now its 4.00, so when most of these buses were purchased that is what a buget was based around.

  172. Booking Agent? wrote:

    For a “booking agent,” Braxton sure is chatty. Maybe the key inlies in being a “former” booking agent?

  173. steveO wrote:

    I forgot to add that I am not condoning begging, just stating how funny it is that so many people think that all these artists are rich.

    I will also go as far to say if you do know an artist personally and they are very successful financially there is a 99.99999 percent chance they made there money from another business.

  174. Bones wrote:

    Well, we can’t hide secrets anymore with the media now days. Years ago many were deceived with our beloved Godly gospel singers.

  175. BUICK wrote:

    HELP! I know this thread has been up a long time so it may not be getting many visitors any more but I need someone to give me some help. Who wrote and who recorded the song “Too Precious”? Lyrics include the chorus “Too precious by far to be sold Or ransomed for mere earthly gold; If wealth were the way, all earth could not pay The price that would save a man’s soul.” (Or something like that.)

  176. tommy wrote:

    Braxton, wow you are way off. Lets start with the fact that few groups are getting a large flat every night. If you look at their schedule most are not “in route” . Like most businesses they have their good days but they also have their bad days. Do you take into account that if an engine blows they have 40k in that? Do you also consider payroll taxes and insurance? And yes most big groups are paying taxes these days. Braxton, just how lond did you eork for becky? From what i hear it wasnt long enough to become such an expert. I would also be certain that you are disclosing personal business information that i doubt they would appreciate you airing to the world. Its unethical and immoral. How would you feel if soneobe disclosed all of your financial dealings to the world. For someone who at one time wirked to advance groups its odd you are on here hurting them. Are you a disgruntled worker or a guy who cant get in a group so you try to tear them down?

  177. tommy wrote:

    Excuse my typos.

  178. NG wrote:

    175 Buick: Info on the song and writer is found here:

  179. irishlad wrote:

    Buick to add to NG: try great site with 30+ songs top quality…that’s if it’s the same guy.

  180. irishlad wrote:

    Buick,most humble apologies my friend,the correct site is:

  181. matureman wrote:

    #175 Buick… if you can leave an address or some means to address you, I will send you the song.

    Great song; wonderful words and I don’t know why it’s not used more. I have it in a Lillenas book, 1976.

  182. matureman wrote:

    131… He has More to hide.

  183. More wrote:

    Haha. Your mother must have been scratching the bottom of the barrel when she named you “matureman.”

  184. BUICK wrote:

    @ #181: I don’t really want to put my email address (or cell phone number) on a blog. Any way I can contact you privately?

    My thanks to NG and IrishLad - but i still would love to know who recorded it. I remember hearing it, perhaps in the ’70s, but I cannot recall who recorded it.

  185. CVH wrote:

    BUICK (#184),

    Actually it was the same guy who wrote it, Dan Whittemore. He was a good writer and singer but never got to the A list. He recorded for Tempo which would explain why matureman has it in a Lillenas songbook; Lillenas and Tempo were both owned by the Nazarene church and headquartered in KCMO. He’s still around but I haven’t heard anything from him in years.

  186. irishlad wrote:

    184 Well then Buick, i doubt it was the fella i directed you to ..sorry.

  187. NG wrote:

    Here’s a site where you can buy an album containing the song for $7.

  188. BUICK wrote:

    @CVH: I liked “Little Bitty Seeds” too.

  189. irishlad wrote:

    185 Yeah CVH, i don’t think Dan Whittesnomore. :)

  190. CVH wrote:

    irishlad - nice…

  191. BUICK wrote:

    Thanks #187.

  192. sherri wrote:

    Has anyone heard about something with Dove brothers tenor? Rumors starting to go around. _

  193. Joe wrote:

    Another HELP!! Paul’s Journey, (formerly the Relations Quartet, from Houston TX), have a new chart song “Washed In The Blood”, that was a hit at NQC. It is one of the best SGM songs I’ve ever heard. I do not subscribe to Singing News…can anyone who does, tell me where this song is on the current charts? And, who wrote it? Thanks in advance.

  194. Samantha wrote:

    Anyone know how to start a singing group and end up with one million dollars singing southern gospel in just one year??? Start out with two million!

  195. tommy wrote:

    Yes I have Sherri. Looks like Doves will have to make a change or its gonna really hurt them. I know our church wont have them back if he is there.

  196. Wade wrote:

    What did it do so I can add it to the dirt sheet!?!?! ;-)) Irish Dude is dieing to know!!! lol;-))

    Irish Dude thanks for IMPORTING the Music to me…The Wedding I did yesterday LOVED it… it inspired mass consumption of Irish Whiskey!!! LOL;-)) Oh Lord… like they told me on the other thread, with my mouth & booze consumption I must be weak like a gay person!!! ( shakes head back & forth ) It never amazes me the REAL idiots like Brett & THINGS they say!!!

  197. irishlad wrote:

    I just

  198. irishlad wrote:

    listened to

  199. irishlad wrote:


  200. irishlad wrote:


  201. irishlad wrote:


  202. irishlad wrote:

    album….great stuff!

  203. Carla wrote:

    Check out the thread above this one. Should answer your Dove Brothers questions.

  204. lovelife wrote:

    Carla, not sure what you mean….Is the tenor singer leaving..

  205. irishlad wrote:

    Open question.Does can anyone out there guess (if you give a hoot)why i spell irishlad w/a small i?.I’ve a feeling CVH does..but that’s only because he’s a smartass. :)

  206. irishlad wrote:

    195 Dieing;’s spelled dying.. or is that American English?

  207. irishlad wrote:

    195.Don’t worry pal,they do it over here too.

  208. Wade wrote:

    Hey if my spell check & grammar program does not throw a red sqiggly line under it I LET it GO this is an INFORMAL Communication Device… or I mighta been drinking!!! Who Knows?!?!? But please tell us why you do not cap the irishlad moniker?!?!? We are dieing to know!!! ;-)

  209. irishlad wrote:

    Because i live in Northern Ireland and that’s part of the UK making me of British nationality but everyone else,English ppl,Scottish,Welsh,Americans you live in Ireland north or south you’re Irish.

  210. NG wrote:

    irishlad: A Catholic cab driver in Derry (that’s what he called Londonderry) told me to not refer to Northern Ireland if I’m in the Bogside (Catholic district) but to refer to it as the North or the six counties. Couldn’t believe the hatred some Catholics had for Protestants and vice-versa although both my parents come from the North.

  211. Wade wrote:

    The THINGS you can learn on AFL!!! So irishdude… you often fail to cap things that should be outta disrespect??? Well let me trying that… ygg!!! lolol ;-)

  212. irishlad wrote:

    You’re 100% correct NG..and the hatred is on both sides in almost equal measures,that’s why the situation here has been so on going for so long.This so called peace agreement really is a forced marriage, as in better than going back to out and out war.However too many are steeped in the past and won’t let go simply fueled by naked sectarianism which in turn is TOTALLY religious in nature, Catholic against Protestants.So so sad.

  213. Ode wrote:

    a-ha…John 13:35 ;) I know many SBapts dont consider Catholic brethren to be christian at all.

    If it’s of any consolation.. even when sweet baby Jesus was still soiling his diapers my people already had 4 thous.years worth of brotherly hate accumulated and recorded, despite God never changing his position on the subject of love between his children..I can tell stories how my 2 sets of grandparents,(may their souls enjoy heaven), those lovely apples of God’s eye, had mutual love rear it’s head each time they met.

    Dad’s white educated ” those european smartypants” saw mom’s sefardim relatives as ten hairs away from being baboons. Mind you, all of them were bigger Jews then Moses, but…

    Should really humble us, doesnt it…. :(

  214. Ode wrote:

    :D ah, caps are silly gentiles’ invention, irishladdy.
    we manage just poifect withut em! Cancelling caps vowels and punctuation helps muddy the religious waters to the degree of clarity suitable for excellent theolo-debates.

  215. irishlad wrote:

    HaHa Wade, ygg! :)
    Press release: Top tier quartet urgently require tenor singer, top C or more a minimum requirement.Salary negotiable.Perks including drinking,smoking and womanizing are entirely at the discretion of the applicant.Only experienced singers may apply due to the sensitive nature of the position. Gays welcome as we are an equal opportunities employer.

  216. CVH wrote:

    irishlad - so sad and true and it’s such a beautiful country. Wonderful people. I seriously considered a gig in Cork a couple of years ago but didn’t take it for a number of reasons.

    And that’s smartass with a lower-case “s”.

  217. Wade wrote:

    irishdude… is that how they posted it on craigs list??? ;-)

  218. Braxton Lyric Shaw wrote:

    @#171—Not sure your making any point whatsoever in response to anything i said above, considering I never said ANY artist was making 1,000,000 a year NET.NOT ONCE.Secondly,the gas expense I gave was using TODAYS diesel gas prices at no more than 500 miles in between gigs……….Ok,on to the next–@#172–I said in post 162 that I BOOKED dates–that is past tense.Never said I was still doing it.Look it up next time before you think you can clown me….@#176–Tommy,you also say Im way off.Im wondering how many of you worked in the business like I did,or you just act like you know whats going on.The example I gave was an ANSWER to a question of–”If someone makes 100,000 a month,on 5,000 a night over 20 gigs a concert,what would they NET?? I gave the answer.I NEVER said anywhere that groups made large flats every night.If I did show me please.I did give an example of a group making 2,000 a night and i dedeucted the expenses,etc,but nowhere did i paint with a wide brush or generalize.I havent looked at any schedules lately,but if they are not in route then they aret being booked correctly,considering that might be the 1st thing Beckie taught me.I know when I was there,it wasnt an issue with anybody in the office.As far as your 40k a year in insurance,i appreciate the add on I didnt think of off the top of my head.Good example.But the artist who is making 5,000 a night isnt fazed by that one bit when they clear over 500,000 for a year.A quartet barely getting by,or making a living that could be really hurt by that type of insurance need?? My answer is they obviously cant afford a bus.Its called living within your means.Without a bus,they could still get to the gigs and spread the gospel.One has to ask themselves at the end of the day where the priorities are

  219. Wade wrote:

    ode… I missed you THANKZ for coming back!!!

    Yes TG was a Bad Girl… but Hey I LOVE BAD GIRLS!!!

  220. steveO wrote:


    Braxton Lyric Shaw
    #162 (I KNOW.I have booked dates that had $5,000 guarantees for an artist who had 20 of those same guarantees in ONE month and a quartet who had at least $2,500 on 17-20 dates a month)

    Uhhhh 5000×20 = 100,000
    100,000×12 = 1,200,000

    Wow stupid me
    (said very sarcastically)

  221. irishlad wrote:

    216.Yes Wade,but not necessarily in that order. ;)

  222. irishlad wrote:

    The thing that really got me “interested” in TG was; when on an interview she was asked all the usual stupid questions like what’s your fav colour,what’s your fav food blah when the question was posed, “something you’re good at but ppl don’t generally know?” she said ” i’m not allowed to say”….mmmmm.

  223. irishlad wrote:

    215 So many ways you could write it CVH: smartass,SmartAss, SMARTASS etc,but one i wouldn’t use…smartAss ;)

  224. irishlad wrote:

    Just saw LLSmith’s status.”Come see us in the Paramount Theatre Alex. Indiana, ft Russ Taff,Buddy Green,Woody Wright and others”.With a top-notch line-up like that Sg will always position itself in the bigger GM market with a niche spot like that.

  225. Bones wrote:

    Irishlad, Is Greater Vision coming your way? I don’t know where.

  226. Braxton Lyric Shaw wrote:

    SteveO,I totally agree you are very very stupid.I said 1,000,000 NET…What makes you stupid is you thought you made a funny point.Try harder

  227. steveO wrote:

    OK I will try really really hard this time.

    Like I said no group is making 1,000,000 a year in any shape, way or form but you win.
    (Said even more sarcastically than you could ever possibly imagine).

    I think you are struggling to keep up with your own spin and I along with many others think the point has been made now.

  228. More wrote:

    BLS: “I said $1,000,000 NET”

    Uh, that’s 1 Million dollars. SteveO was pretty accurate by your OWN admissions. Do you even know what NET means? That means AFTER expenses. $1M after expenses? With numbers like that you are in no position to call anyone dumb.

  229. irishlad wrote:

    Bones my son, they certainly are, I might even go to see them. They’re in the same place the Hoppers played ..Glenmachan Church of God nr Belfast . But they’re right-winged bores and I don’t agree w/them…but even more worryingly I actually enjoy them.

  230. Braxton Lyric Shaw wrote:

    Tell ya what.You guys stay hung up on the difference between NET and GROSS and I will sit back and enjoy the fact that you couldnt respond to anything else I said in my response post ;)

  231. steveO wrote:

    BLS -

    How bout them Cardinals.
    Do you think Albert will stay with them.

  232. FosterChild wrote:

    I personally see no problem with the red carpet at the Singing News Fan awards. There is no difference in it and the SG artists signing autographs at the record table (which I tend to do from my record table). It gives the artists that “celebrity” feeling while giving the fans a feeling of importance due to the fact that they have probably met their favorite artist at concerts in their hometown. Seeing them break out a Sharpie and sign a record or two or walking on a prestigious red carpet makes it a little more special.

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